Gun Talk

[M2]

Was that question a joke?

I don't think so, I've heard comparable questions from folks looking to buy their first pistol who have asked for recommendation from several of their friends and ended up with a similar list.

Honestly, for someone who isn't going to get into guns, a .357 Magnum revolver such as the Ruger GP100 is probably their best bet. They're not that expensive, easy to operate and clean, you can shoot .38 Special in them, and mechanically there's not much that can go wrong on them. Sure, they're heavy and cumbersome to conceal carry; but the majority of people who ask this kind of question are normally not considering getting a CHL so if it's only going to stay inside a nightstand or a small safe, a revolver is a good choice...

Cheers! M2

[nsplayr]

M2,

Have you shot the LCR? Anyone have thoughts on it?

[M2]

M2,

Have you shot the LCR? Anyone have thoughts on it?

Unfortunately, no; but it's one of those firearms where I'd probably buy one without having shot it since I've heard so many good things about it (and the price is right, of course!). I understand the trigger is exceptionally smooth, but it does take some getting used to because such a light and small snubby is gonna kick.

A few years ago they were priced a bit high, but now that they've dropped to a more reasonable level there is no reason not to snag one if you're thinking about it...

Cheers! M2

[Beaver]

I don't think so, I've heard comparable questions from folks looking to buy their first pistol who have asked for recommendation from several of their friends and ended up with a similar list.

Honestly, for someone who isn't going to get into guns, a .357 Magnum revolver such as the Ruger GP100 is probably their best bet. They're not that expensive, easy to operate and clean, you can shoot .38 Special in them, and mechanically there's not much that can go wrong on them. Sure, they're heavy and cumbersome to conceal carry; but the majority of people who ask this kind of question are normally not considering getting a CHL so if it's only going to stay inside a nightstand or a small safe, a revolver is a good choice...

Cheers! M2

Here's my opinion: get a Glock 19 or a S&W M&P 9mm, 1000 rounds of ammo, and get some professional instruction. You owe it to yourself and those around you who may be affected by how fucked up you are with that .357 revolver or 1911 jam-o-matic you are toting around. Or Desert Eagle, for fucks sake.

Very nice, beaver. Are you a CZ fan? Here is a pic of my most recent acquisition that the wife helped pay for, S&W 325 TR:

That's a sweet S&W. What's the difference between that and the M&P?

I'm not a huge CZ fan. They're comfortable and pretty good shooters. I'm more a fan of decent $269 guns and DIY projects.

[Timbonez]

Here's my opinion: get a Glock 19 or a S&W M&P 9mm, 1000 rounds of ammo, and get some professional instruction. You owe it to yourself and those around you who may be affected by how fucked up you are with that .357 revolver or 1911 jam-o-matic you are toting around. Or Desert Eagle, for fucks sake.

That's a sweet S&W. What's the difference between that and the M&P?

I'm not a huge CZ fan. They're comfortable and pretty good shooters. I'm more a fan of decent $269 guns and DIY projects.

Beaver, that was going to be my recommendation whenever she responded, but I wanted to answer her question. I think a revolver or 1911 are decent choices, but they require a certain degree of skill and dedication that someone new to handguns probably doesn't have. Glocks and M&Ps can fulfill multiple roles and are very utilitarian. They are easy to maintain and, are they more responsive to neglect/abuse while still being extremely reliable/durable than most handguns. The operator can easily perform armorer level maintenance with a few tools and competent instruction. Finally, they are very easy to use. Beaver's recommendation of a Glock 19 or S&W M&P in 9mm is spot on. I might expand my selection somewhat further after doing some research (HK and FN), but the two aforementioned pistols are pretty much the standard by which all others are judged. When I first joined this forum I said and recommended a lot of stupid shit. Over the past few years I've learned quite a bit, and I'm capable of making an informed and intelligent decision on firearms and training. The things I used to believe or say I would simply laugh at or admonish now. I've made purchases and decisions based on emotion or "hey this looks cool" realizing later on that that was stupid. I guess my point is if you continue to research, you will always learn something new or better when it comes to firearms.

Beaver, the 325 Thunder Ranch is a model made in collaboration with Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch. He is a big revolver guy and offers instruction on defensive revolver in addition to his other courses. I'm not sure which came first but I think it might have been the 325 TR. The profile of the barrel shroud with stainless steel barrel and the lightweight frame are use in the TRR8, M&P R8, and the 325 TR. While the TRR8 and M&P R8 are chambered in .357 the 325 TR is chambered in .45 ACP. The M&P has the integrated rail in the shroud while the other two pistols have a removable rail that is affixed with screws. The two .357s can also accept a rail on the topstrap. All three are also drilled and tapped for mounting an optic. The 325 TR is 31 ounces but recoil is still manageable. I bought a Simply Rugged sourdough pancake holster for N framed Smith & Wessons with a 4 inch barrel, and it fits very well.

Didn't you mention months ago that you were going to the 1911 Centennial with Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn? How was that?

Edited August 10, 2011 by Timbonez

[Masshole]

That's a loaded questions with a lot to answer. The Colt Python or Colt .45 (I'm assuming you mean a 1911) are your best choices. The Desert Eagle is ridiculously expensive and a behemoth of a weapon. Since the Python is no longer in production you will have to find a used one, but they will be pricey. A "reasonably" priced Python that still works and is pretty to look at will be just north of $1000. The benefit of having the Python is that is is chambered for .357 magnum, which means you can shoot the lighter recoiling .38 special through it too.

The 1911 will be more prevalent because everyone makes one. Small parts quality is a major factor here and most people who espouse how great their Kimber or whatnot is overlook the fact that all their internals are going to be garbage. That being said, I highly recommend Colt as your first choice in a 1911. They make the best ones in their price range, plus it's a Colt. Springfield Armory also makes an excellent 1911 and would be my second choice. Realize that a 1911 is not an ideal choice for a beginning handgun shooter. Field stripping is more complex than modern semi-autos, but it's still relatively simple. Maintenance is no more strenuous than a modern handgun until you start getting into higher round counts. Eventually parts will need to be replaced. The extractor is a big one, and many parts like that require fitting on a 1911. Unless you are comfortable and capable of doing that, you will have to send it to a gunsmith.

Ammo for both the Python (.38 Special and .357 Magnum) and the 1911 (.45 ACP) can be found at any sporting goods store, gun store, wal-mart, etc. Ammo for all 3 calibers are similarly priced.

What do you intend to use this gun for? What made you choose these guns? I can think of several choices that will probably better suit your needs... without even knowing what those needs are.

Additionally, make sure you buy yourself a decent holster. I originally came on here to post this article, but though I could kill two birds with one post.

ETA: Looks like ExBoneOSO already posted the article in the WTF? thread... Police urge holster use after man shoots his own penis.

I want to learn how to shoot a gun before I go to FT and also for self-defense. I am going to live on my own for the rest of college (and likely thereafter) and would prefer to keep one in the house. I chose those specific guns because those are the ones my parents have. Instead of buying a new one, I could have one of theirs. I figured the Desert Eagle would be too much, but having never fired one I could not be too sure.

Here's my opinion: get a Glock 19 or a S&W M&P 9mm, 1000 rounds of ammo, and get some professional instruction. You owe it to yourself and those around you who may be affected by how ######ed up you are with that .357 revolver or 1911 jam-o-matic you are toting around. Or Desert Eagle, for ######s sake.

Yes, I will obviously get instruction. I am not going to take it outside to start shooting at turkeys. You call the 1911 "jam-o-matic" because that is a frequent problem? If it is something I can learn how to fix then that is no problem, but I do not want to invest a lot of money.

Beaver, that was going to be my recommendation whenever she responded, but I wanted to answer her question. I think a revolver or 1911 are decent choices, but they require a certain degree of skill and dedication that someone new to handguns probably doesn't have. Glocks and M&Ps can fulfill multiple roles and are very utilitarian. They are easy to maintain and, are they more responsive to neglect/abuse while still being extremely reliable/durable than most handguns. The operator can easily perform armorer level maintenance with a few tools and competent instruction. Finally, they are very easy to use. Beaver's recommendation of a Glock 19 or S&W M&P in 9mm is spot on. I might expand my selection somewhat further after doing some research (HK and FN), but the two aforementioned pistols are pretty much the standard by which all others are judged. When I first joined this forum I said and recommended a lot of stupid shit. Over the past few years I've learned quite a bit, and I'm capable of making an informed and intelligent decision on firearms and training. The things I used to believe or say I would simply laugh at or admonish now. I've made purchases and decisions based on emotion or "hey this looks cool" realizing later on that that was stupid. I guess my point is if you continue to research, you will always learn something new or better when it comes to firearms.

Beaver, the 325 Thunder Ranch is a model made in collaboration with Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch. He is a big revolver guy and offers instruction on defensive revolver in addition to his other courses. I'm not sure which came first but I think it might have been the 325 TR. The profile of the barrel shroud with stainless steel barrel and the lightweight frame are use in the TRR8, M&P R8, and the 325 TR. While the TRR8 and M&P R8 are chambered in .357 the 325 TR is chambered in .45 ACP. The M&P has the integrated rail in the shroud while the other two pistols have a removable rail that is affixed with screws. The two .357s can also accept a rail on the topstrap. All three are also drilled and tapped for mounting an optic. The 325 TR is 31 ounces but recoil is still manageable. I bought a Simply Rugged sourdough pancake holster for N framed Smith & Wessons with a 4 inch barrel, and it fits very well.

Didn't you mention months ago that you were going to the 1911 Centennial with Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn? How was that?

Thank you Timbonez, Beaver, and M2. I really appreciate the wisdom.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Masshole

[Timbonez]

Then get the Glock or S&W M&P like Beaver suggested. You will be hard pressed to find anything better than those two designs. Like I mentioned before there are other companies that put out a good modern pistol that are worth a look, but when you have two proven designs staring you in the face it's hard to look elsewhere. I personally have a whole slew of 1911s and S&W revolvers, but I use a Glock 17 for concealed carry/defense.

[Beaver]

Didn't you mention months ago that you were going to the 1911 Centennial with Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn? How was that?

It was fucking awesome. Vickers and Hackathorn are the best instructors in the world. On top of that Bill Wilson, the owner of Wilson Combat, was in the class as well as a sponsor. I walked away with about $200 worth of Wilson stuff. During the classroom portion of the event he was walking around inspecting guns, answering questions, and helping guys with dis-assembly/reassembly. I also won a Raven Concealment holster and mag-pouch, a 50 round box of Federal Hollow points, and a polymer AR mag. The highlight of the class was getting to go through the shoot house with Hackathorn.

I really enjoy the 1911 from a historical and mechanical standpoint, but I wouldn't bet my life on one when I have better options. I think just about everyone in the class had at least 1 malfunction, and about 75% of the students were shooting Wilson Combat guns, the best production gun in the world. Even Bill Wilson's gun malfunctioned at least once. Part of the problem with 1911s is people get emotionally invested in the platform and refuse to listen to alternatives. They also tend to get "malfunction amnesia" when talking about their $3000 pistols.

Yes, I will obviously get instruction. I am not going to take it outside to start shooting at turkeys. You call the 1911 "jam-o-matic" because that is a frequent problem? If it is something I can learn how to fix then that is no problem, but I do not want to invest a lot of money.

Is your life worth $479?

Glock 19

The high end: HK

Be advised: Your state has some fucked up gun laws and a lot of online retailers won't sell to you because of it.

Just out of morbid curiosity, give us the details on the 1911.

[Timbonez]

That's cool, dude. I wish I could have gone. I'm contemplating taking one of 1911 Operator classes in the near future. I'm sure you already know Raven Concealment holsters are great. I have them for my Glock 17, M9, and government sized 1911s. The Glock conceals real easily with it even OWB.

The 1911 is one of my favorite semi-automatics. Taking a handgun course put on by the likes of Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, Magpul, etc. definitely pushes your weapon to the limit. I'm comfortable carrying a 1911 on occasion, but I also recognize its many limitations. I own Colts and Nighthawk Custom 1911s. If you're a dedicated user, I believe you can find great success using a 1911 regularly. That being said, there are few people in this world who are dedicated enough to carrying and maintaining the 1911 like it should be. Personally I'm more apt to just shoot and enjoy them at the range rather than carry it daily like my Glock.

Masshole, do you already have a military ID? If you do, you can get LE/Mil pricing on the Glocks. I paid $423 after tax for my Glock 17 and plan on getting a Glock 19 in the next couple of months. You'll have to find a certified Glock LE dealer as your normal stores typically aren't.

Yes, I will obviously get instruction. I am not going to take it outside to start shooting at turkeys. You call the 1911 "jam-o-matic" because that is a frequent problem? If it is something I can learn how to fix then that is no problem, but I do not want to invest a lot of money.

The following link contains several articles written by Hilton Yam, an accomplished 1911 smith and police officer in Florida. I suggest you read them as they detail what can be expected with running a 1911.

10-8 Performance Articles

Edited August 10, 2011 by Timbonez

[Hacker]

I love it when firearm neophytes ask 'what's the most accurate'....when the weakest link in the chain isn't the equipment, it's the wet noodle pointing it.

They're all more accurate than we are.

[Masshole]

Is your life worth $479?

Glock 19

The high end: HK

Be advised: Your state has some ######ed up gun laws and a lot of online retailers won't sell to you because of it.

Just out of morbid curiosity, give us the details on the 1911.

I was not going to buy online, but should I? I was planning on getting my license and then going up to New Hampshire. I am not sure what I can tell you about the 1911 other than it is silver with brown grips and was made sometime in the 1940's.

[Timbonez]

It's probably a commercial model Colt with nickel finish. That would be a cool gun as a collector's item or to send to a gunsmith for custom work, but I would not buy that as my first weapon. There are good things and bad things about buying online. If you buy from an online retailer that operates outside of your state, you will avoid paying for tax. Sometimes you will end up paying for the difference the tax would have been because of shipping, but places like Bud's Gunshop already includes shipping on their firearms. They have competitive prices as well. One of the bad things is you are buying a weapon sight unseen. You don't have the opportunity to look over it for any defects. That being said, new firearms are covered under the manufacturer's warranty so if there is an issue it will be corrected free of charge.

Realize that gun stores will only sell to residents of their state. Unless you are a state resident of NH or you have military orders placing you in NH, you won't be able to buy a pistol there. You can have a store up there ship a pistol to a local FFL dealer where you live.

ETA: My experience is that I will usually find better prices for new firearms online than the typical gun store down the road.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Timbonez

[Beaver]

Here's what you should do: go to a local gun shop, fondle all the guns you are interested in, then come back and ask us any questions you have. I'm not saying the gun shop guys will lie to you, but...they'll lie to you. Or they may actually be ignorant.

Here's what you should do: go to a local gun shop, fondle all the guns you are interested in, then come back and ask us any questions you have. I'm not saying the gun shop guys will lie to you, but...they'll lie to you. Or they may actually be ignorant.

[Beaver]

Sweet Jesus, the MA compliant M&Ps have a 10 lb trigger.

[M2]

Maybe this GunBroker ad belongs in the 'WTF' thread...

Micromancer's Rohm RG-10 - Own Internet History!

Description for Item # 245736580

Once upon a time, there was a gun manufacturer in Germany named Rohm. They produced very inexpensive guns, and as of 1968 the United States decided they were in fact of too low quality to import any more. The gun is here in the States, and as such I can only assume it is at least as old as 1968 - but your guess is as good as mine! I am not even 100% sure of the model as it's not marked with a model number but the RG-10 was the only matching model I could find from Rohm chambered in .22 Short. In any event, a few decades after arriving here, this RG-10 made it's way to Tullahoma, TN.

It was bestowed upon me as a gift which put me in a bit of a conundrum. You see, this is a terrible gun. There is no reason anyone would particularly WANT this gun. And in fact, once you've seen where it has been since I have been it's caretaker it is very likely YOU won't want it either. It's got a street value under what most FFLs charge to transfer it so selling would be very unlikely. If this were just some random gun from a random guy that is.

But I am not listing this gun because it has any real value. I am listing this gun for the thousands of other gun enthusiasts out there who know who I am. You see, I am something of a Big Deal On The Internet (pronounced buhDOHtee). My picture has been featured on the Tosh.0 show on Comedy Central. I have been shown on hundreds of popular websites. To name a few you might have seen me on failblog.com, ebaumsworld.com or collegehumor.com. I was interviewed by Vice Magazine. My photo was part of a physical art display of internet culture in California - a pictoral feature of which was in an October issue of Wired Magazine. PlentyOfFish.com used my picture in their Image Suggestions help page. A staff member at Cracked.com voted my picture Photo Of the Decade (2000-2010 I believe). If you need proof of my incredible reputation, search Google Images for "guy with guns" it will net you no less than a dozen impressions of my photo, even if you turn Strict Safe Search on. The significance of this is: This Rohm pistol was in that photo. Right below the ammo, and above the Glock knife. You can own piece (see what I did there?) of Internet History by getting this Game Used Pistol from me.

Previously, I listed this gun as a joke under the title "Hitler's Starter Pistol". Google search that phrase and you'll see how many places got a good laugh (or a touch of horror!) in the 36 hours or so it was live. I didn't really expect anyone to bid on it. To my surprise though, there was actual interest in it. I arrived at this conclusion because someone actually met the reserve I set for the gun. So I am relisting this gun for all of you out there that would want it. I have corrected the listing that was deemed to be a Terms of Service violation by removing facetious information and replacing it with information about the gun and it's actual history that is as true and accurate as I know. I have also removed the photo that has a person in it, as that was also against GunBroker policy. That picture was of me with the cylinder of the gun in my mouth with the barrel and handle both sticking out at safe angles. The gun was not loaded - who in their right mind would load a Rohm?

In addition to the gun, I will also include at no additional charge a signed 8x10 glossy photo of the gun as featured originally on the internet in March of 2007. You can even tell me what you want me to write on it. Anything goes! If you can type it, I will emblazon this picture with wide tipped Sharpie professing my love to you and possibly your pet. The potential is limitless! Be warned though I write kind of big so if you want any amount of picture visible try and keep it to a sentence or two. One good paragraph and you wont even be able to see my awesome Guitar Hero Les Paul or Rock Band Fender Stratocaster.

The gun will be securely packaged in the shoe featured in the photos associated with this auction, wrapped in saran wrap and mailed directly to your FFL. This is non-negotiable. Do not bid if your FFL can not receive guns packaged in a shoe. My FFL will be mailing the gun to them so there should be no question about who has the better FFL if yours can't see fit to leave Historical Artifacts intact. I also can not mail the shoe separately in the event your FFL absolutely refuses to touch a box that has a year old size 13 worn out shoe. I can not provide rubber gloves either. It is also possible this gun has something communicable and/or hazardous on it and I recommend just leaving it in the shoe once you receive it.

My FFL charges me $30 to ship guns for me, so that's what you will pay for shipping. There are no additional hazmat/handling/bogus fees because as far as I know it is completely legal to ship old shoes without a permit.

Best of luck to you and enjoy your signed glossy picture and old shoe! Oh and I guess the gun too but you'll probably get more fun out of the box.

[Masshole]

It's probably a commercial model Colt with nickel finish. That would be a cool gun as a collector's item or to send to a gunsmith for custom work, but I would not buy that as my first weapon. There are good things and bad things about buying online. If you buy from an online retailer that operates outside of your state, you will avoid paying for tax. Sometimes you will end up paying for the difference the tax would have been because of shipping, but places like Bud's Gunshop already includes shipping on their firearms. They have competitive prices as well. One of the bad things is you are buying a weapon sight unseen. You don't have the opportunity to look over it for any defects. That being said, new firearms are covered under the manufacturer's warranty so if there is an issue it will be corrected free of charge.

Realize that gun stores will only sell to residents of their state. Unless you are a state resident of NH or you have military orders placing you in NH, you won't be able to buy a pistol there. You can have a store up there ship a pistol to a local FFL dealer where you live.

ETA: My experience is that I will usually find better prices for new firearms online than the typical gun store down the road.

I was not sure about the part about buying out of state. I just remembered someone in a nearby detachment went up to New Hampshire to inquire about buying a rifle. I was hoping I could buy one in NH because everything is cheaper up there- like Midwest cheap. Thanks for the heads up about Bud's. I will definitely look into this soon.

Here's what you should do: go to a local gun shop, fondle all the guns you are interested in, then come back and ask us any questions you have. I'm not saying the gun shop guys will lie to you, but...they'll lie to you. Or they may actually be ignorant.

Anything really specific I should mind for or just get a general feeling?

Sweet Jesus, the MA compliant M&Ps have a 10 lb trigger.

Yeah, we are retarded.

[Timbonez]

M2, that ad is magical. People are actually bidding on it.

Masshole, you are permitted to buy rifles out of state as long as you are not prohibited from owning that rifle in your state. Pistols can not be purchased out of state unless it is transferred to a FFL (Gun Shop) located in your state of residence. Don't buy anything on your first trip to the gun store. Like Beaver said, get a feel for the pistols they have available and ask questions about each pistol they are showing you. We've already given you an idea of what to look at, so ask questions about them when you get there. It would be even better if there was a range near you where you could rent a few handguns to see how they shoot. Come back with any questions you have. Ok, I'll stop parroting Beaver now.

[brickhistory]

not my photo

Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22

I bought this rifle about a month ago. I wanted to see what all the fuss was about first-hand for a black rifle with the near-infinite variety of options.

And I wanted to do it for cheap before I shelled out (no pun intended) $1200-1500 bucks for a big boy version.

The last, and only, time I fired an M-16 was 1992. My GCI squadron had its own inventory of self-defense weapons so I got to qualify on Vietnam-era M-16s (slick plastic foregrips and stock ((don't even know if it had a bolt assist)) which underwhelmed me but then they were ragged out POSs. But I also got to qualify on the M-79 and M-60 so it was a fun week!) (We also had an M35 2 1/2 truck from 1968 in our fleet). Since then, Big Blue only authorized the M9 for annual, then biannual, then once every three years, qualification so I never shot a 5.56 again.

So, the wild popularity of the many M-16/AR-15/M-4 and other black battle rifles (SCARs, etc) has largely passed me by. I prefer the old-school wood and blued steel of days gone by and am more a pistol guy anyway since I'm not likely to be part of a walking patrol where I need a modern rifle to keep me in one piece and without extra orifices.

So I went cheap-ish (reading some of my other posts in this thread, I see this as a trend item...) and got the M&P 15-22 which is a .22LR kinda version of S&W's M15. I got it on-line and even with the shipping and dealer FFL use fee, it was $80 cheaper than buying retail with that mark-up and state taxes.

The basic controls are in the same places and work the same way as the full size 5.56 version (save for no bolt assist on the junior model). Sights, picatinny rails for mounting everything up to a sink, etc, etc, etc.

I had never played with rail systems even with the pistols I have that have such. Thus, seeing how it works and how a rifle can be tailored in about a gazillion ways is interesting.

However, this IS a .22, I'm not planning on any "Red Dawn" scenarios, and I didn't want to sink a ton of money into this, so I chose not to "tacti-lol" this rifle.

I got a sling, a front sling attachment point, a cheap red dot, a raised rail adaptor for same, and have called it good. Using a red dot is also a new one for me. I've been an old-fashioned iron sights or at most an optical scope for deer hunting in my farmboy days, but nothing that required a battery (probably a sts would work here).

Finally took the rifle to the range this morning. It comes out of the box with one 25-round clip that is the same size as the full size, but is necked down at the top for the .22. There is a handy cartridge loading assist button in the middle of the clip to help feed the rounds in. I purchased two additional clips and a Blackdog 50-round drum magazine as well.

Before shooting, I cleaned and oiled the rifle.

At the range, I spent about 100 rounds sighting in the red dot. Again, I'm totally unfamiliar with using one, so cut me some slack for taking that long and that many rounds. And I'm still not satisfied with the results, but as I said, it is a cheap one, so I'm sure I got what I paid for.

In 350 rounds, I had one failure to fire - that was the CCI bullet not the gun as the rim of the cartridge was well struck.

I had two failures to feed - in two different magazines, I found that if I didn't have the first round pointing up at a slight angle when inserting the clip, releasing the bolt just rode over that first round and nothing went into the chamber. So that's a magazine design flaw, to me and not the gun's.

Those issues aside, this was fun! It was easy to shoot the thing as the gun weighs in at 5.5+ lbs. empty and there's very little recoil or barrel rise. It IS a .22 after all.

With the 50-round drum, it took forever to empty the thing. Much quicker than loading the beast obviously, but way different than a 15 round pistol clip or 8 round M1. The drum does look goofy on the rifle but it worked flawlessly.

Final review: a fun plinker, served what I wanted which was to see if I wanted to join the black rifle bandwagon which I don't think I do. Just not for me, but no slight for anyone that does. It's fascinating to see the Lego type approach that a modular system allows. Once again, another stunningly obvious idea that I never had but which makes perfect sense to see it in action.

[HeloDude]

Final review: a fun plinker, served what I wanted which was to see if I wanted to join the black rifle bandwagon which I don't think I do. Just not for me, but no slight for anyone that does. It's fascinating to see the Lego type approach that a modular system allows. Once again, another stunningly obvious idea that I never had but which makes perfect sense to see it in action.

Awesome review man! I just bought one myself and am going to take it to the range later today for the first time!

It sounds like the 50 round drum worked well for you--what did you pay for yours? The ones that I have seen are somewhat expensive to just hold 50 rounds.

[brickhistory]

Think I paid $69.99 via Cheaper Than Dirt.

[StoleIt]

Good deal:

Aimsurplus.com also has great deals on advanced aerospace AR15 lowers $59.95

https://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1SASL&search=lower

I just got 4.

Edit: I got 3. There is a limit apparently.

Edited August 15, 2011 by stoleit2x

[viking87]

I really enjoy the 1911 from a historical and mechanical standpoint, but I wouldn't bet my life on one when I have better options. I think just about everyone in the class had at least 1 malfunction, and about 75% of the students were shooting Wilson Combat guns, the best production gun in the world. Even Bill Wilson's gun malfunctioned at least once. Part of the problem with 1911s is people get emotionally invested in the platform and refuse to listen to alternatives. They also tend to get "malfunction amnesia" when talking about their $3000 pistols.

The 1911 is one of my favorite semi-automatics. Taking a handgun course put on by the likes of Larry Vickers, Ken Hackathorn, Magpul, etc. definitely pushes your weapon to the limit. I'm comfortable carrying a 1911 on occasion, but I also recognize its many limitations. I own Colts and Nighthawk Custom 1911s. If you're a dedicated user, I believe you can find great success using a 1911 regularly. That being said, there are few people in this world who are dedicated enough to carrying and maintaining the 1911 like it should be. Personally I'm more apt to just shoot and enjoy them at the range rather than carry it daily like my Glock.

The following link contains several articles written by Hilton Yam, an accomplished 1911 smith and police officer in Florida. I suggest you read them as they detail what can be expected with running a 1911.

10-8 Performance Articles

M2, Beaver, Timbonez, others; I have a quick question regarding your opinions with the 1911... I have shot rifles and shotguns all my life (hunting and competitively), and consider myself to be capable and knowledgeable in those arenas. Handguns/pistols on the other hand, while I am somewhat competant in their operation, I really do not know much about becuase their uses in hunting and competition (at least the ones I participated in) were minimal. For a long time though, I've been wanting to get a 1911 because I appreciate their look and history. While I'm totally in support of buying a weapon for defense, that would not be the motivation in my case (I figure by the time I got the gun out of the safe and found where I put the damn ammo, I'd be screwed anyways). Really, I just want a hobby gun. Would this be a good start? Like I said, I am not new to their operation, but I am pretty ignorant of the types (meaning Glocks, S&W, various revolvers and 1911 models) and recommendations out there, because I am largely a hunting weapon type of guy.

It has been mentioned that they jam a lot.... would they be more of a pain rather than an enjoyment? I take good care of my guns, but it sounds like the design is the problem here... I would not be able to afford a $3000 one right now too... So I would be looking at those Kimber's made of junk internals I suppose...

So basically, I'm looking at a handgun for a hobby/enjoyment, and appreciate the 1911... Am I headed down the wrong path?

I love it when firearm neophytes ask 'what's the most accurate'....when the weakest link in the chain isn't the equipment, it's the wet noodle pointing it.

They're all more accurate than we are.

Totally. I dumped way too much money over the past few years building an accurate AR (LaRue upper) to nail coyotes/shoot for fun... I love that rifle, but that barrel will be long shot out several times over before I can even start worrying about its accuracy vs mine lol. Handguns I'm sure are even more dependent on the skill of the operator.

[HossHarris]

It has been mentioned that they jam a lot.... would they be more of a pain rather than an enjoyment? I take good care of my guns, but it sounds like the design is the problem here... I would not be able to afford a $3000 one right now too... So I would be looking at those Kimber's made of junk internals I suppose...

I carry a 3" kimber daily and have over 1000 failure-free rounds down the pipe.

There's a reason the 1911 was the standard issued sidearm of the US Military for 74 years through 4 major conflicts.

Buy one and shoot it as much as possible ... it's a fine weapon for proud Americans.

Don't believe the anti-1911 hype on the interwebs.

[M2]

As Hoss stated, the 1911 is an excellent pistol and every American male should own at least one in their lifetime!

That said, there is a slight (and I do mean slight!) decrease in reliability as compared to better modern polymer semi-autos (the XD, Glock, etc), but honestly I find my 1911s to be easier, accurate (well, I am better with my XD; but I also have a lot more time shooting it) and honestly more enjoyable to shoot (because of the heavier and longer frame).

Honestly, the normal-sized ones are not as easy to conceal; but as far as everything else, there is absolutely no reason not to but a 1911. Even the cheaper, entry-level ones from the Philippines--such as the Rock Islands--can be decent shooters!

Cheers! M2

[StoleIt]

As Hoss stated, the 1911 is an excellent pistol and every American male should own at least one in their lifetime!

Quoted for troof!