FDNYOldGuy

Another reason I've heard to wrap up your PPL and avoid IFT is because it's another potential for failure. Sure, if money is an issue, it makes way more sense to have Big Blue just pay/pay you for the training. However, if you can swing finishing your PPL as a civilian, it might make sense because it's weeks less of potential things that could jam you up. You have already been flying, so you're probably confident in your skills, but why potentially beef up a checkride or something else that could eliminate you at IFT if you can avoid it entirely? Lastly, as I understand it, you don't get a PPL at IFT; just the ~20 hours of instruction. So, if you do want a PPL down the road, you'll still have to sit for it and get the FAA checkride for the license anyway. Especially coupling it with the months of wait time @Stoker pointed out, you might as well just knock it out beforehand, if you can.

You’ve got a pretty solid shot with some great scores. If you’re happy with a seat over picky about a particular airframe, I’d be hard-pressed to imagine you don’t get scooped up pretty quick. You won’t be able to do the Unsponsored route because the age waiver (actually it’s an ETP for us non-prior guys) requires sponsorship, so that option is likely off the table. In my experience and in talking to folks on here, Reserves route can be a “quicker” route with things moving along faster. ANG seems to be pretty slow approving waivers, with kickbacks of them for clerical errors or even as a whole at different levels. You’ll also have to do everything through your specific sponsoring unit (MEPS, FC1, etc.), so it’s hard to get a jump on that stuff before you’re picked up since that specific unit is cutting your orders (over a recruiter over many units) for things. Lastly, your age requires the ETP, but you’re not far into waiver territory and it shouldn’t be hard to get through. Good luck out there! This forum is a great resource, so utilize it!

Most definitely prices have gone crazy. Watching the prices of stocks, real estate, collectors’ cars, and nice watches over the last handful of years has made me head spin. Hell, the last AOPA Flight Training Magazine mentioned that mid-60’s to mid-70’s Skyhawks have gone up 25% in a quarter (if I’m remembering the stats correctly). That’s kinda nuts. A downturn will definitely send people that overextended to the exits and bring prices back out of the stratosphere (or we’ll get stagflation, which sucks too). I like watches and I said I’d get a cheapie vintage 5500 Rolex Air King (pretty low end Rolex, but I like its simplicity) if I was able to pull off getting a pilot slot at advanced age, but prices have jumped quite a bit in the last few years that it doesn’t make sense. Maybe I’ll wait until training is over to see if things have come down? And maybe to not put the cart too far in front of the horse, since I’ve still got a long way to go until it’s a given I’ve made it...

Shit, man, that's a really great article. They really did capture his personality, from what relatively little I knew of him. Funny story: so he had come out to his firehouse back when it was still pretty rare to just be open about it. Guys broke his balls (pun intended, I guess), like they do to everyone, but they never treated him any different because that's how the majority of the department operates. We will make fun of you for anything, but we're all brothers in charge of one another's lives. He was good at his job and that's all any of us really care about. True to his unique form, when he was killed, he didn't want the typical FDNY funeral; lots of Catholics on the job, so usually a big mass with plenty of boozing after. He actually had a really great (and quick, by FD standards) ceremony in Washington Square Park, right in the middle of the city. It was cool and a nice departure from the normal department funerals, honestly. But, the kicker was, the night before the funeral, his wishes were to have a celebration of life at his favorite gay bar. I actually worked at his firehouse driving 11 Truck that night so the guys that worked with him there could be off to go out. Of course, there were lots of jokes thrown about beforehand about them heading out to a gay bar. Some were hesitant about the venue; but everyone went, because it's what you do on this job for your brothers. Just picture 50+ gruff New York City firemen ranging from early 20s-mid 50s in age milling about getting ready to go out to a gay bar. I couldn't stop laughing. But, out they went and, to a man, came back boxed, saying they had a great time. In the morning, before his funeral, the stories flowed and the hangovers kicked in, because it's just kinda how things go. Seems like it fits his character of marching to the beat of his own drum. That article summed him up pretty nicely about who he was. Thanks for sharing. I'll pass it along to guys in his firehouse, in case they haven't seen it. Stay safe out there.

So, this loss happened a little before I joined the site. When I did, I didn't want to put too much personally identifying info up while I was interviewing for slots, so my apologies for bringing this thread back up. But, I was wearing one of the memorial shirts for Tripp recently and it got me thinking about these guys. I unfortunately didn't know Raguso (he worked in another Borough/Division from me and our paths never crossed), but Tripp originally worked in the firehouse (Engine 28/Ladder 11) next to mine before promoting to Fire Marshal years back. I'd only worked with him a few times on details between firehouses and caught a few jobs with him, but more knew his story from the guys he worked with more than I knew him personally. Pretty incredible dude all around, with his military service and law degree from Stanford, that was talked of very highly by the guys in his firehouse who knew him well. They all figured he was on track for a life in politics, which he sure seemed like he would have excelled at. Anyway, the FDNY sendoffs for him and Raguso, with the Air Force also playing a big part, were great. They gave the families a lot of pride and showed a lot of love from those of us that worked alongside them. Those were followed up by memorial t-shirts for each of them, and one for Jolly 51 as a whole. One of the ones is pictured below and I thought was a cool mix of FDNY and USAF, so I figured I'd share it here. Belated cheers to those that were lost.

As @flat4power said, and from what I've seen, they did up the age and commissioned service time for the AD board upcoming next month. 33 for age and 7 (I think) years for total commissioned service. There hasn't been anything I've seen on it spilling over to AFRC/ANG yet, but it certainly doesn't hurt chances for those candidates. I was able to get a non-prior service ETP for a Reserves heavy unit through at 36 (technically, I'll be 37 by UPT start, too). There was a whole lot of hustling/annoying people, by myself and my squadron (they were awesome at making calls), to get that to happen, but it worked out. I made it through the wavier process and the board, was just sworn in last week, and I've been working with the 340th and just awaiting inprocessing/official OTS start dates. Anything is possible and it's always worth the shot. Good luck!

Call or email the squadron PoCs and talk to them, interact on this board with as many folks as you can and make quality posts letting people know who you/why you want a spot/that you're not a tool, and attend rush/drill weekends if they offer and have convos with squadron members. You don't have to always be selling yourself; just get to know them and let them get to know you organically. You'll get out of it what you put into it and, for me, networking was one of the biggest leg-ups of the process.

Thank you for all of the great input, guys; you cleared it up nicely for me. Seems like opinions vary for sweating logging flights (with things being much easier these days with the airline hiring frenzy, for sure), but that it's not as vital to worry about all the different times at this point. And that we get to log PIC (not for signing for the aircraft purposes, but for manipulator of controls purposes) with or without the endorsements if you have a PPL. I also didn't do enough research to understand what all the HP/Complex endorsement entailed. I thought it was a handful of hours with some knowledge/proficiency/maneuver milestones, as opposed to a potentially relatively simple sign-off, which was my bad. Anyway, thank you again.

This is a really great thread with a lot of info on logging time. Reading through it from page 1 and talking with others headed off to UPT before long, I was wondering thoughts on something: Do you think it would be worth taking the time to get a high performance/complex endorsement before heading to UPT? I've heard having this endorsement allows a student to log PIC time along with dual received for T6 flights with an IP. If I understand the discussions on the earlier pages on this thread, it sounds like time logged can be used toward FAA/ratings time, but NOT for airline time since students aren't signing for the plane/true PICs. Most of those discussions are from 10+ years ago, so I'm not sure what, if anything, changed on MIL or AIM sides from when that info was written. At this point, I honestly don't have any plans for the airlines and want to finish out my career with the FD when I'm in TR status after training. That said, I'm a big believer in having options open and, in the very least, I would like to continue working toward higher ratings in case the job or family situation changes someday. So, it seems like that time might be worth spending the ~$1000 or so now to be able to log those PIC hours in training, but I just want to make sure I'm not off base or missing something. Any input is appreciated and thanks for your time.

Just my .02 from seconding what @Yaweh said: you’ve got solid scores, a solid GPA, and you can build that PCSM with some hours. Your score is not terrible with such low hours, but you’d be certainly better off if you did as he said and get to at least 21 hours and aimed for a solo sign off, if you can swing it. I can’t advise on your AD hopes, but have you looked into the Unsponsored route, as well? Some heavy squadrons will cold-call Unsponsored guys since you’ve already got a slot, so it might be a way to get you higher on interview lists. Put together a professional looking packet and be locked down for your interviews, I think you’ll be a pretty solid candidate. Good luck!

@dotonfire, there definitely is. If my old, non-prior service, ass can get one at 36, it’s certainly not impossible to make happen. Good luck with the continued push!

It is only for this upcoming AD board, but seems like that it'll eventually filter down to the AFR and ANG if it pans out well. Even if not, don't let it deter you! Waivers are completely dependent on the squadron; some don't want to mess with it at all and some will be willing to put the legwork in for a solid candidate and help push the ETP up the chain. If your goal is to fly and you're not set on only fighters/one specific airframe, you can certainly find a squadron willing to put the effort to get it signed in if you're a standout applicant. Bottom line, it's not a given that a waiver will get done and it could get kicked back for any reason, but it's also always worth a shot to apply and see if the squadron is willing to push one. You sell yourself to the squadron, they sell you up the chain, and hopefully it works out.

@brabus has solid advice. Just wanted to tack on you could certainly try for an Unsponsored slot, as well, which will get you accepted to OTS/UPT program without having to get picked up by a squadron initially. After you have that slot, some squadrons (probably only heavies; not fighters) will be cold calling you to come interview, instead of the other way around. If you're set on fighters, then you'll still have to do legwork and get your interviews on your own, but it's certainly a way to get yourself in the door without getting picked up. As for the TBAS, do a little research on where you can do it in your area, as there might be an option besides a base. I took my AFOQT and TBAS at an ROTC detachment at a local college, which didn't require any work from the recruiter/clearance. Hell, I was able to book both online and just showed up at the time I booked. Your scores are absolutely killer, so work on those flight hours (some units want you to at least have soloed) to bump up your TBAS. Definitely make contact with hiring PoCs and other pilots in the squadrons you're interested in. Talk to them about flying, life in the squadron, missions, etc. to make sure that fits what you're looking for. They'll also get to know you in these convos, so it'll help a lot with them knowing your name when it comes time to sending out interview invites. Lastly, put together a solid, professional-looking packet that you're sending out to squadrons. It's your sales brochure, so make it look good. Good luck! You've got a pretty solid chance of getting picked up!

Tacking on to what @Sit On Acorns said about MyFlightBook. If you hit the button on engine start, it’ll provide telemetry (takeoffs, landings, speed, altitude, etc.). It also backs up daily to an online drive, if you pay $25/yr. Not sure how well it integrates with Mil or how easy it is to grab your phone each engine start and stop during training, so maybe it’s not ideal. But, I’ve liked using it for GA and, if you don’t care about it automatically backing up daily, it’s free to use.

For units that don't offer rushing, it can be a little harder to stand out. That said, it just puts it more on you to have a solid, squared-away packet that stands out. Have a good picture of your face. Even if they ask for full length, nothing says you can't have another of your mug to help make you recognizable if/when you do get invited to a meet and greet/rush weekend/interview. Honestly, I used my firehouse headshot with my helmet on. Cheesy, for sure, but it stood out and made me more recognizable as the old geezer fireman trying for a spot. Make sure your resume looks professional. Have business-minded friends or colleagues look at it, or feel free to send it to me, if you want random stranger feedback on it. Include unofficial copies of your transcripts, any flying stuff you have, and your LoRs in the packet. Make sure it's all in one PDF and not multiple files. Spend some serious time on your cover letter and, like your resume, have it proofread by friends/coworkers (or send it to me). It should have a little of everything; who you are, why you want to fly, why you want to fly for that specific squadron, and what kind of asset you want to be to your squadron after training. Keep it to one page. Lastly, make contact with the hiring PoCs through phone or email (or both). They're getting blasted with packets from a bunch of people they don't know (who are probably blasting packets out to lots of squadrons themselves), so all you are is numbers and letters unless you make contact. Try to speak with other pilots to ask questions, express interest, and (without sounding like a bragging douche) talking a little about yourself to have them get to know you a little. The pilots will talk and, if they know who you are, I'm sure they can help the hiring board with input on who to invite for interviews. It'll also make it less awkward when you do show up if you have spoken with a few pilots in the squadron to strike up conversations. Bottom line, you've gotta create your own luck and that's by putting in most of the heavy lifting yourself. You don't want to be psycho stalker level of bugging them, but you want to make sure you're making solid contacts and showing you're interested, if you can. The squeaky wheel getting the grease and all. Just sending your packet out and hoping the numbers and letters on the pages are enough to get you a job offer might not be enough when you have plenty of other solid candidates; you've got to have personality do some of the work. Good luck!

@ssup is 100% right. My original response you quoted is wrong; I had bad info and thought it was still an option then, so my apologies for false hopes. Unsponsored positions CANNOT require an ETP/waiver and you won’t be able to go that route at 30. The ETPs/waivers are sponsored by the squadron that has decided they want YOU over all other candidates and they’re willing to take the age risk on themselves. Exactly what @ssup said. The paperwork is a lot of legwork for the unit to go through for your benefit, so having a heavy unit do it and then jumping ship to fighters because that’s what you want isn’t a great move. You’re also taking a spot at that heavy unit that another applicant would love to have just to squareroot the system a bit. If you want fighters, rush fighter units. Most might not write you off at 30 and would probably give you the chance to at least come down and interview, although some certainly may balk at your age. Only after applying and hearing fighter units’ input on your packet and age will you be able to make a decision. If flying anything mil is your goal and you can get stoked about heavies, your age is certainly surmountable and you’ll get picked up somewhere if you interview well. My apologies again for the bad intel on Unsponsored slots. I thought it was an option when I posted that but realized I was incorrect upon further investigation. They seem to stop around 28, giving enough time to jump through all the other hurdles to get to UPT before turning 30 to avoid any requirements for ETPs/waivers. If you want fighters, they’re not off the table for you if you put together a solid packet, have strong background/test scores, and interview well. An ETP at your age is a much easier sell than at mine. Good luck!

I’m very new to the EFB options, but I’ve used Seattle Avionics’ Fly-Q and been pretty happy with it. They’ll let you test drive it for 30 days for free and you can extend that time by using a different email and another trial, if necessary, to get a better feel. If you buy it, it’s $69/year for VFR and $129/year for IFR, IIRC. Not sure about discounts for Mil or CFI. I’ve been using it with an iPad 4 (snagged a used one off of eBay for pretty cheap), which is a bit of a big screen and not really yoke-mountable, but I like having the larger display personally. The previous charts/printouts in my lap weren’t much smaller and it’s easy to read. There are some kneeboard cases out there, too, but I don’t have one yet. If you’re not sure yet which to use, it’s maybe worth a look with the free trial, IMHO.

Backing up with @JustHangingOut said. My unit is currently working on my waiver and OTS packet, but I’m still wrapping up with the recruiter and haven’t sworn in yet. Hell, haven’t even heard it mentioned or gotten a timeframe. Someone else I spoke with that was hired ANG was still waiting on their packet at NGB (can’t remember if they needed a waiver or not), but they were definitely still in the process/without dates and sworn in/attending drill weekends. YMMV by the unit, but that’s the gist I’ve gotten. Actually, I’m curious if what would happen if something happened with the process and the waiver or packet was kicked back and UPT became off the table?

Yes, I did get picked up by a heavy squadron. And I’m DEEP in age waiver territory at 8 years older than you, so that mountain is surmountable. That said, like Harris in Major League, I had to “put anything on it I could find.” I made sure my packet was as professional and squared away as I could make it and certainly personalized the cover letter/packet to each squadron.

Doh. As long as it doesn’t look like The Hills Have Eyes, maybe there’s a chance...

My LoRs were genetically addressed, as I figured I would probably have to send out a lot of applications due to my age. I never had anyone saying they should have been addressed specifically. That said, if you want a specific squadron and plan on giving that your all, I’d maybe have them specifically addressed. Cover letters, on the other hand you definitely want to personalize as much as possible. I didn’t know if I should be addressing to the hiring PoC or the Commander, though. If they listed a PoC in the hiring notice, I used that name. If it was a general hiring email, I tried to chase down the squadron commander’s name and address it to that person. Sometimes you can just call the squadron switchboard and ask who the commander is. If you personalize the letter enough to the squadron, a TWIMC heading may not be a big deal except maybe in the pickiest/most competitive squadrons. Good luck!

Of course! That said, I’m still not counting my chickens yet. I’m not going to believe it until my ass is in a seat in UPT. Had a couple hiccups with the paperwork, but hoping it irons out and still crossing my fingers I can make this Sept OTS board. Anyway, anyone stumbling across this can certainly reach out to me and I’ll help however I can. If my old ass can make it this far, walker and all, I’m sure lots of others can, too. Put in that legwork to get apps out there and steps checked off, be persistent, and network as much as possible. This forum helped me out immensely!

@admdelta, YMMV, but I've gotten the impression that waivers up to 32 aren't considered as big of a deal, but you'll start to get fewer and fewer squadrons (especially fighters) seem that they want to mess with them over that age. At the end of the day, it's totally up to the squadron, so it's worth just applying anyway and let them tell you what they're willing to do. Worst they'll do is say no and you're out a little work of putting the application together, but at least you know for sure.

My input is backed up by nothing more than me staying at a Holiday Inn Express last night seeing as though I am recently picked up/haven't started training yet, so take what I say with a big grain of salt. That said, here's my quick take from what you told us: The negatives. Your GPA is a little low in a non-STEM background, so it's not likely going to pop out in a stack of applications; especially if you're going for fighter units. Not having your PPL will also likely give them pause, as will not working full time right now/having serious post-college work experience. I'm not knocking servers. I worked in restaurants and bars for years and know it's tough work. It's just not "solid" work experience. In the end, they're going to be spending a million bucks(?) on your training and giving the slot to you over someone else, so they're going to want to see that it's going to be a good investment. Secondly, they might want to know you can support yourself when all the training is over. Again, not that you can't waiting tables, it'll just likely be a lot less money than you were just earning training/being on orders full time as you will be for the first 2-3 years. I'm not saying that you won't be a great investment, but that would be the negatives I'd see after quick take reading your stuff without knowing you further. And, while I didn't apply to any fighter units, a lot of the folks I've talked to say how competitive they are and that there are 50 guys going for 1 or 2 slots sometimes. So, you've gotta find ways to stand out. Now, the positives. Your Pilot and Nav test scores are pretty solid and to have a 76 PCSM with pretty low hours isn't a terrible position. Again, might be low for crazy competitive fighters, but you might be able to swing it with less competitive heavies. That PPL will add flight hours to increase your PCSM and help potential units confidence in your ability to succeed. What would be your PCSM at 60-80 hours (a reasonable estimate that you'd be here if you go for your PPL)? Could you up your shifts serving or get a second job now to bring in more $$$ for lessons? Another big positive is that you're young and have lots of time to bolster your resume, bump your scores, and get comfortable with the application process. If you feel up for it, I'd honestly start applying to squadrons now. Sure, you might not get a lot of bites just yet, but you'll at least get your name out there and get a solid grasp of the process/what they're looking for. IMHO, being that "whole person" that many squadrons tout looking for is largely about your personality and fit. If you're getting your name out there, making contacts with pilots/hiring PoCs through email/call/in person, going to squadron meet and greets, and honing your interview skills, you'll get a better idea of what they're looking for and what you might need to get better at. The whole application process is an interview; not just the questions they ask you seated in front of a panel, so the better you get at that and the more inroads you make with people in squadrons you want to be in, the better your chances are. Prove you're the kinda dude guys want to spend time around and your areas that don't stand out so much on paper start to get replaced by who you are as a person. Sure, you might get a lot of rejections at first, but it'll teach you a lot about the process and, more importantly, show you want it. A squadron you apply to a few times is going to remember you and, while you might not have caught their eye on paper the first time, they'll see you're determined and want it badly, so maybe they'll give you more of a chance the next time. Comb these forums and read any and every thread that pertains to any airframe/base/squadron you're interested in, even if the thread is years old. Reach out to people that are in the hunt, too, and those that are just starting out. There is tons to learn from this forum and, hands down, it's been the best asset I've had in this dream I've been chasing. Again, I'm no expert and I'm not knocking you for anything you've got there; it's just my .02 in what I learned during the chase. Good luck out there!

Thank you again for the support, comments, and upvotes, everyone! You guys were instrumental in helping me get there and I'm very grateful for that! I'll certainly be lurking around combing the forums for info on the rest of the journey to UPT and helping out with any questions anyone might have going through the same trials to get picked up. And I'll definitely post up when it's locked in and I have dates. I'm hoping to head out ASAP (I'm sure not getting any younger...haha), so I'm still doing my best to reach out and make connections/annoy folks to keep things moving. As of now, my biggest push is to make sure my age ETP keeps moving up the chain so I can get to an OTS board. The squadron has been awesome and is pushing to get me rolling quickly, which I'm very thankful for. Last I heard, my ETP was on the Ops/CC desk a couple weeks ago on its way up to Wing, then NAF, then A3. I don't want to overstep my bounds too much, so I'm not sure how to check on it's progress without coming off as impatient, since they did make calls for me. But, it's my last piece to get squared away before going to a board, so I'm definitely like a kid before Christmas. Anyway, I'm rambling again. Haha. Thank you all again for the support!