FDNYOldGuy

I GOT PICKED UP! I've been hesitant to post up here because there are still a couple hurdles to overcome and I didn't want to jinx myself, but I got picked up last month. I'm beyond stoked, excited and uncertain about the next steps, and wanted to hopefully give some confidence to the other old geezers out there that aren't sure it's possible if you're over 30. If I can do it, so can you! I pushed really hard to get my packet squared away, to get the right PoCs and follow up, and try to do as much of the preliminary work as I could on my own. A good line I heard from a friend was, "If you have a problem, be sure to present them with the solution to that problem." I tried to do this by handling as much of the paperwork myself so I was ready to go and not leaving it on anyone else to have to deal with. An even bigger help was making a ton of connections on and off this forum that were immensely helpful along the way. I am sure I annoyed the hell out of a lot of people and, for that, I apologize. But, all that said, all those people provided excellent advice and helped me get this far! To those hopefuls out there: utilize this asset! I actually got very lucky and went 2 for 2 on my interviews, getting offers from both the AFRC and ANG heavy squadrons I interviewed with. Both were great, but the AFRC squadron hit it out of the park with how awesome they were and I was immediately sold on being there. Also, the AFRC timeline to UPT seems to be a lot quicker than ANG, which is a big plus to me with my age, and everything I had done up until that point was with the AFRC side of things (recruiter paperwork, MEPS, FC1, etc.), so more delays would have occurred having things pushed over to ANG. I'm definitely putting the cart a little before the horse right now, since I haven't sworn in, my ETP is still working up the chain, and don't have dates yet. But, all of my paperwork is completed with the recruiter/squadron, my FC1 is certified, and I'm just waiting on the ETP signatures and my OTS board. If anyone has any input on the process from here or how to ensure all goes smoothly, I'd greatly appreciate it! Lastly, I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone here that helped me get this far; I couldn't have done it without you! This forum has been an invaluable resource with this process and the people I've met through it helped solidify that this is an amazing community that I'd be honored to be a part of. Crossing my fingers for no speed bumps as the last few things get taken care of! I'll update when it's fully official and I've got dates. Looking forward to being part of the pilot community and hopefully meeting/buying beers for some of you someday soon!

Keep poking around on the boards here, as there is a TON of great info and great people to contact, but I've never heard anyone your age having any issues with the ETP Guard or Reserves. Hell, I'm non-prior giving it a shot at 36, so there's definitely hope for you. Get your PCSM up with flying hours or a retest, but your other stuff looks pretty solid to me (then again, I'm not an authority on anything).

I'm not in yet, either, so take it all with a grain of salt. But, you're in a pretty good position. You're young enough to have almost 5 good years of trying before a waiver becomes an issue, your scores are decent, and you can work on a PPL if you're really serious about flying and want to increase your chances there, too. You don't HAVE to get one, but it'll certainly help if you do. You're going to have to do a lot of the leg work yourself. Recruiters are, ah, busy and can be tough to get in touch with sometimes, so you're going to be much better off putting together your own packets and making your own calls to units. I know you said above that you've had some issues with getting the right contacts, but that is (unfortunately) part of the game. Keep chasing leads until you get in touch with someone that can help. Google those units and you'll find past hiring notices on bogidope/guardreservejobs/wherever with contact info. Search these forums and you might find people who posted about applying there or are even flying there now and reach out. Be annoying in reaching out to people. Haha. At the end of the day, most will understand what you're doing (trying to get a job!) and that you're interested, so they'll get over it. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. I'll answer your numbered questions as best as I can with my limited experience: 1. Score acceptance varies widely. There might be averages out there, but don't get bogged down by numbers. At the end of the day, it really is a "whole person concept" that makes up a majority of the hiring. Bigger than that, networking and units "knowing" you (most importantly, them LIKING you) will likely get you further than scores as long as they're not at paint chip-eating level (again, that level varies depending on what you're trying for). 2.The pilot shortage is more in Active Duty than Reserves/ANG, who are not hurting nearly as much. They still have many more applicants than they do positions, although they are easing some of the requirements (like age, in my case). Still, there HAVE been a reduction of posts for openings (especially Reserves), but I don't think that means they aren't hiring. This might just mean a shift in practices as they get more applicants, so I'd recommend still just cold calling as much as you can. 3. Hiring contacts are tough. There's an Excel sheet floating around here, but a lot of it is out of date, too, and is commanders; not hiring officers. One squadron I called I talked to 3 people that previously did hiring before finally getting the current hiring officer. Your best bet is to call the main numbers for the units (listed on their site) and just ask for the contact info of the UPT hiring officer. 4. Make sure you're happy with the mission and happy with the folks in the squadron you're looking at. The distance thing is fine, but since you're in a big city, you might be better off looking at some places that might be a cheap flight over a 5 hour drive. You'll have to make the trip more than the 1 weekend a month, it seems, so maybe it's better if you're able to get inexpensive non-stop, RT tickets over driving each time. 5. Timeframes vary greatly. There's a great thread here with tons of posts to give you an idea, but a lot of variables can change your timing. Your medical DQ issue will likely cause some delays in things; especially for FC1. Scheduling that alone can take some time, plus any of the waiver issues can delay you further. Then you've got packets moving up the chain; NGB for Guard units or Boards for Reserves. You may be excited about everything, but paperwork has a way of getting stuck on desks and getting kicked back for minute issues that can cause delays. Take care of your life decisions and worry about how it fits with this dream as this option unfolds. Planning off of this happening will likely only give you more acid reflux. Haha. 6. If you make contacts at the units, they'll invite you to UTA weekends to meet others in the squadron. Just be yourself when you go to those, try to learn about the squadron's history, airframe, and mission so you can ask good questions, and don't act too much like you're one of them already. 7. Only person who cares about you getting a flying spot is you. Your outcome will be based largely on how much work you put in making contacts (at units and with other pilots), getting your application buffed up and standing tall compared to others' applications, and trying to get more flight hours/higher AFOQT and PCSM/that medical issue worked out/etc. No one wants to be presented with problems or, especially, be expected to find the solutions for you; if you have an issue (like your med DQ) also bring them the solution to it. You can only take the tests one more time each, so the best ways to increase your scores are to study the areas you were weak on and get flight hours, so might as well start working on a PPL, IMHO. This is an obtainable goal, you've just gotta be willing to bust your ass and put in the work to make it as obtainable as possible. Good luck! Use this board as much as you possibly can (that search feature is stellar), reach out to people you think might be able to help (many will be happy to talk with you), and start making phone calls!

This is the best idea, IMHO. Go for it all; see what sticks and decide when your options are on the table. Fire's hot and water's wet, my brother; we all do the same thing and your advice is as good as mine. I'm just dumber thinking it's a good idea to pay the amount of rent I have to in NYC. That said, don't give up too many of our secrets. Haha. Turned the wheels all night and tried to enjoy the bologna sandwiches and cold tater tots for dinner, right? Good luck chasing your Hail Mary, too. Hopefully we both get lucky and some kind squadron out there has pity on us old geezers always putting fires out and lets us burn holes in the sky.

Yeah, I think that would be my angle, but there are lots of moving pieces. If you've got the free-o degree option, it's probably not a bad idea to do it. That said, the difference from in and out of state is not minor; 15 years ago it was ~$1300 for in and ~$4500 for out for undergrad. I can only imagine it's gotten worse. Definitely something to consider. Then again, as @FlyArmy said, will a MS really be worth it for you? I would say to go for the experience (FSU was awesome) and the extra step on the resume, especially if it's nearly paid for, but it might not pay off much if you're planning on rushing units and getting a PD/FD job. The experience will be fun, but the mileage gain may be minimal. That's good to hear about the solid instructors in Tally. Definitely a better situation than Austin, it seems. Money is always an issue in life, but there's always a way to make things work. You could easily bartend or wait tables for flying money while you're in school too, if you go the FSU route. I worked waiting tables for most of my college career and it actually added to the fun; you'll work with a lot of fun people, get cheap/free food, and put some money in your pocket. Personally and obviously super biased, I'd consider FD much harder if you've ever given it a thought. Then again, I'm the kinda guy that has more of an allergy to bullets than to fire, so maybe it's just personal. That said, the QoL for FD is, in most places, higher than for PD. You're working in bigger groups, you're under less stress, and people generally want to see you show up. Put it this way, my firehouse has about 60 guys and I'd say that there are probably 10-15 that were cops and jumped over to FD when they could; same figures at a lot of firehouses. I honestly don't know a soul that left FD to become PD. Not bagging on my brothers in blue and I respect the hell out of them, but it's definitely a tougher job and different mentality, IMHO. NYC is crazy expensive, but then again the pay is higher. Up here, FD/PD have parity and make (roughly) the same amount, which seems to be similar in a lot of places. That said, that ship MIGHT have passed for FD, unless you took the last test. They only run it every 4 years or so and the age cutoff is 29 (maybe 30 now, I dunno). PD opens hiring much more often and hires way more, so that could be an option. Keep an eye out on hirings in cities you'd want to live and just take the test. Lots of larger cities cut you off at 36. Which, you've got time, but always worth it to have your hat in the ring. You can always say no if you pick another path, but you can't say yes if you never took the test and opened up the option. And I'm kicking myself for not applying again years ago when I wouldn't have to worry about an age waiver. Then again, it's pointless to worry about now; you're past that point and it isn't worth dwelling on. At the end of the day, you've gotta be the one to decide what works best for you. None of us on here will be able to tell ya the right path because we aren't you, don't have your goals, and don't know what you can and can't do. But, for me, I think it's best to have as many options open as possible. If you can run two things at once (applying to AFRC/ANG spots and FSU or PD/FD), you are ahead of the game. The PPL will fit in there somewhere. Just choose what you think will make you the happiest. If you feel like you chose wrong, look back to my paragraph above and just enjoy the journey. Good luck man! Hit me up if you have any more questions I might be able to help with.

Chiming in from the outside (I'm applying just like you), but with a lot of rhyming to your situation. First, I'm a geezer at 36 and still giving it my all to get hired at a heavy unit somewhere. If I've got a chance at 7+ years older than you, I'm sure you are fine to get a waiver if you prove worthy to the squadron; especially, as others have said, at a heavy unit. I actually got my Undergrad at FSU and moved to Austin after, then became a fireman there (although I do know a cop or two in the area) before moving up to NYC, so I'll give you a little personal advice on both of those options. FSU is a hell of a lot of fun, if you're down with living the college life, and a good school to go to. The bars are fun, the women are plentiful and friendly, and Saturdays in the fall are amazing. I didn't think Tally as a city was that bad, honestly. It's cheap, there are good food options, and it's not too far from the beach. There were some hills, there were some decent outdoor activities (Cherokee Sink, St. George Island, Apalachicola, etc.), and you could ride a motorcycle nearly all year round. I'd definitely do it all over again. I don't know about PPL schools, but Tallahassee Airport is small enough it's probably not expensive to get lessons there and wrap up your PPL while you're in school. Austin is also a great town. Live music everywhere, lots of young people so lots of young activities, great going out district downtown, and a metric shit-ton of outdoor stuff to do (hiking, SUP/kayaks downtown, biking, running trails, power boats on Lake Travis, etc.). That said, it's changed a lot from the decade+ ago that I lived there. I caught the tail end of it still being inexpensive and not ridiculously overcrowded, both of which are long gone now. It's gotten crazy expensive (places I looked at buying 12 years ago have quadrupled in price) and there are people everywhere. All of the cool little niche things that made Austin a lot of fun now have lines and you're going to sit in pretty terrible traffic to get there. Rents and housing prices have skyrocketed, so you're pushed further and further out (maybe you want that, though?) away from the nightlife and core activities. That also means driving to and from those activities and Texas cops don't mess around with DUIs. I know a TON of people there that got nicked (pre-Uber days; although that doesn't absolve the bad choice to drive) and that would likely put a serious dent in your aspirations; mil or civilian. I did a little research for a friend in Austin interested in getting a PPL and it actually kinda sucks there. There are only a couple schools and rates were high (high even by NYC standards, honestly) to rent the planes. The less expensive airports were a decent drive out of town, although I guess they may be closer, depending on where you live. If you're looking for PD, there are lots of departments in the area (and ranging from DPS, APD, and lots of school departments) and they pay pretty decent. If you have mil points, they'll give you an extra bump. Personally, if you're not locked into LE, I'd recommend giving a look to the FD side, but I'm more than a shade biased. Haha. I know little about Dallas, except it's flat, they get tornadoes and ice storms, and it's still hot as hell. But, I know a lot of people seem to like it, so maybe it's great. It's probably better to commute to your unit with DFW there than from AUS. So, not sure if that helped at all because both options aren't bad and I'd lean either way, but it was just striking a chord to read your options and taking this old man back in the old time machine. If it were me, honestly, I'd just start applying to units. It seems like timeframes can stretch beyond a year (maybe two) between applying and getting accepted. Maybe you could rack out your MS while you're waiting to ship out to UPT, then move to Austin/Dallas in 4-5 years after your MS and training. You'll go after those PD jobs armed with a few extra points having served, you'll have the flying still as a Traditional Reservist/Guardsman, and you'll have the MS. Why not try to knock all the pins down?

I've actually experienced some of the opposite as non-prior service, with a few Reserves units saying no dice on NPS ETPs and ANG hasn't said anything. There's some conflicting regulations in the AFIs for ETPs for non-prior. In the Policies and Procedures (don't see an AFI number on it) for applying to UPT revised 4 Jan 2018, Attachment 3, section 2, says this about ETPs for age: "Beginning with the Nov 2012 HQ AFRC UFT selection board, applications from non-prior service members containing an ETP request for relief from age limits will not be accepted." It goes on to reference AFI 36-2205. However, AFI 36-2105, released 25 May 2018, supersedes 36-2205 and has eased the language on ETPs (leaving discretion with the Wing Commander, as I see it, and having applications go right from the wing to AFRC/A3C, apparently skipping the NAF) and says nothing about restrictions for NPS applicants. So, honestly, I'm confused. It seems like there have been a few stories I've heard of NPS getting ETPs and hired recently, but I also don't know if maybe those are just NGB hires and Reserves have had a block in place that NGB doesn't. Or is that restriction just for Unsponsored UPT slots? Am I missing or misreading something, or is there some other way that's getting bypassed?

Awesome to hear that you've gotten a spot and you're headed down the road to doing what you want to do; fly for the Air Force! There have been some good posts on here about unsponsored slots and it seems like not a bad spot to be, since you can rush squadrons knowing that you're already headed to UPT. Good luck at UPT and with the rest of the journey!

You got picked up? Congrats! It's great to read success stories! If you don't mind getting into it, what was your journey like from when you posted last year to now?

I posted up in another thread, so sorry to beat the same drum, but being a firefighter (or cop) is another option if you don’t want airlines or an office job. A lot of larger-city options might be off the table if you did 20+ military due to age restrictions (36 is a cap in a lot of cities; but many smaller cities don’t have age caps), but it’s worth looking into. Most cities give points to veterans, let you buy back 3 years military time, are very conducive to Reserves/ANG if you still want to fly, may provide another pension, and are seemingly (only say that because I don’t have military experience...yet) similar mentalities/excitement levels to military service. There are 12 other people all day, every day in my firehouse, with nearly 60 assigned to the house in total. Lots of different personalities to keep things interesting. We have each others’ backs, are close-knit and social (both at work and with our families), help each other through thick and thin, laugh a whole lot (at ourselves and one another), and get to do some pretty crazy/exciting things that change daily. 10-20% of guys are prior military service, too. I’ve not flown a military jet (yet), but driving a 70,000lb fire truck through traffic, pulling up to a building with fire blowing out the window, and heading in when everyone else is heading out is pretty damn exciting. You’re forcing open doors and heading into an environment that’s hot and you can’t see your hand in front of your face to look for victims, or pushing a hoseline that’ll unleash 180-250 gallons of water a minute and nearly send you flying backwards. You will save a cat. Likely many cats over a career. I’ve heard of guys rescuing a cop, who got stuck in a tree trying to save a cat. In front of a playground full of school children... You’ll see the best and worst; often times within a few hours of one another. You’ll laugh pretty damn hard. You’ll go home feeling like you made a difference, even if it’s just a small one like opening up an arthritic old lady’s cat food can or making sure the local drunk is still breathing when passed out after his/her latest bender. It’s not a perfect job always, but it sure isn’t a bad one. Especially if you already have the mindset, as I’d imagine many pilots/military members do.

I’m not sure I’m reading it right, but does it seem to you like they made it less strenuous on the burden of proof to give the ETP and laid most of the policy decision on the Wing Commander? Or am I missing the gist and it actually got worse? If I’m not crazy, then that might give me more than the small glimmer of hope I had before and give me a better shot. I’ll certainly reach back out to the hiring Captain and give another push. I’ve made good headway with a place I’d love to call home, if I were fortunate enough, if I can get over this hurdle.

Thank you so much for the point in the right direction, @FlyArmy! Once I knew what I was looking for, I poked around a bit more and found this updated (published 5 days ago) policy on the site you linked. Looks like it might be AFI 36-2105 now. I just gave it a quick skim, but I didn't see anything that precluded me and it was exactly what you said; they just have to prove that I'm worth the risk. As you said, too, maybe it's just because I don't have the "documented" history because I'm not prior service, although I could show quite a bit from the FD and it's where I've been for 10 years. It seems like a lot of the power, discretion, and decision making lies with the Wing Commander/CC. I'll go back to my contacts and see if maybe it's just that the Wing Commander doesn't want to put in the paperwork, but I'll certainly do whatever I can to make it as painless as possible. Thank you again for your help and housing that out. I greatly appreciate it.

Just an update and a big question. I've been moving forward, been cleared through MEPS and starting to make contact with squadrons/send out application packets. I've definitely been shot down due to my age by a few squadrons (Reserves and Guard both) that say they flat out aren't doing ETP/waivers or that they're not interested above 32/33. Maybe it's their way of saying they don't like my packet enough to put the extra leg work in, but that's what I got. On the flip side, I've had a great convo with a couple POCs at a Reserve squadron I'd love to be a part of and been told that I have a very strong packet/they would interview me, which was certainly great to hear. However, they said there is another issue that's stopping me: that there's an actual AF regulation stating that ETPs/waivers for age can't be given to non-prior service members. I have heard this exact same thing from two squadrons under the same wing. The POCs ran it all the way up to the wing commander and the same response was given. Being as though the wing commander said that there was a reg, and did not seem to tell either POC in either squadron that the wing specifically isn't doing waivers, I'm very confused. I'd figure that they'd just tell me they aren't entertaining ETP/waivers, or that they just didn't like my packet, if they didn't want to put in the leg work. This was more that, even if they did hire me, they couldn't push my packet up the chain for approval because it would get kicked back due to this reg. If it was something written in AF policy, I'd have figured I'd have been shot down much earlier by a recruiter, other units, or seen it here in the forums/heard it out in my talking to others in the process that I wouldn't stand a chance as a civilian at my age. I've also made a solid contact at AFRC and he said the waiver shouldn't be an issue if I could get squadron sponsorship and a proper push up the chain. So, I'm unsure where the roadblock is and who I need to bug incessantly to see if I can overcome this hurdle. The squadron said they're willing to do it (if I did well enough meeting the squadron/during the interview and got the offered the spot, of course) and the contact at AFRC said they didn't see an issue, as long as I had sponsorship. Any ideas of where I may be getting hung up, or if the regulation/way forward is just being misread in there somewhere? Or should I just get the hint that they are just being reeeeeaaaaalllly nice about telling me that I'm too old for them to want to mess with instead of just saying no? Thanks for the help. Hope all had a safe and happy Memorial Day Weekend.

Hey, guys and gals. First, a disclaimer: I'm not (yet) in the military and just a long shot old guy trying to get a Reserves/Guard UPT slot, so I am not posting this from the inside. That said, I am a big fan of the financial world/retirement options and, in my travels researching squadrons and poking around their pages for info today, I randomly stumbled across this article that could be important to some folks. It basically says, if you're one of the fortunate ones that can max out your TSP at $18,500 and you're in the BRS with a match program, you want to make sure you're spreading the $18,500 in contributions out over the ENTIRE year and not maxing out early. According to the article, Uncle Sam is only matching 4% PER PAY PERIOD and, if you max out early, you'll be missing out on the government's match for each pay period after you max out until the end of the year. So, the government would be paying MORE of the $18,500 if you ensured you didn't max out too early, as opposed to the individual paying more of the $18,500 because the government caps at 4% per pay period. Here is the article about the BRS match that goes much further in depth. It is a recent article that I didn't see listed here yet or discussed in the other BRS thread, so I figured it may be of some help here. My apologies if I'm speaking out of turn because I'm not in yet/dealing with the BRS personally, but I thought it might be valuable to some here.

Thanks for the input, @va121mir. It does seem to vary WILDLY by unit, so it's probably worth reaching out everywhere. I just wasn't sure if I should be firing applications to EVERY one, or if I should just be ensuring there's even a possibility before sending them. I'm happy to fly anything and just want to get a seat, but it's just a bit too much to be going for everything and I certainly won't be able to rush everywhere. It's just hard to know where is worth the shot. Good luck with the hunt!

Thank you @va121mir and @FlyArmy for the info. That's what the recruiter had said, but a few folks I'd spoken with that had gone that route were saying it was possible, so I wasn't sure. It makes sense due to requiring sponsorship, but I wasn't sure if there was a snowball's chance that AFRC would actually have a route for a waiver. I need to get a MEPS date and I should be all spun up and ready to go to rush units. @va121mir, do you think I'll have too much of an issue getting a waiver through NGB? I've definitely noticed they seem to have the age caps listed in their job listings. I had planned on applying as many places as I could and letting them tell me "No" to be positive the option isn't available, but most of the current openings seem to be NG and I'm wondering if the effort is worth it if they don't seem keen on doing waivers. I just hadn't heard that it's harder to make them fly (well, I guess that pun's intended) through NGB before.

Jumping in on this post, but I was curious if unsponsored UPT slots were possible that required an age waiver. Would AFRC grant an age waiver, or is it a lost cause? I am 36, so certainly need a waiver, but I think I can be a reasonably strong candidate with a PPL and approximately 69 hours in my logbook, 89 Pilot, 82 PCSM (will increase to 86 with 12 more flight hours), respectable LoRs, and a Master's degree (3.41 GPA). I feel confident in being a strong "whole person candidate," as well, if I can just get the chance to sit down for an interview. To top it off, I'm pretty happy to fly anything, so I would be happy with whomever is offering a slot. With this age and time being my issue, I'm just trying to look at all options. I'm awaiting a MEPS date as my final hurdle and I'm applying to units, but openings and time are going to take their toll and I figured unsponsored would be a great opportunity, if it's possible. Thanks for the info.

Yes. I have my PPL (passed 11/30/2017, 67 hours total, and working on IR, too) and Class 3 medical that comes with that; done less than a year ago. I also get pretty in-depth annual work ups through the fire department, so I have a pretty solid idea that I’m physically fine for MEPS; no weird EKGs, within height/weight parameters (74” and ~203lbs), and no issues with vision or color/depth perception. I have a lot of the recruiter paperwork done already (app, history, 2807, and other misc info/forms) and I’m working on getting my MEPS appointment locked in. I’ll lean on him this coming week to lock that in I guess now it’s getting in touch with the right people at units to start finding out about boards. I know you said to just start putting in the legwork to reach out to contacts, but what title should I be searching for when reaching out to about applying? Not being “in” already, I’m not sure of the structure and what position/rank I need to be aiming to get in touch with to apply.

I'd love to see those averages to help get a better idea. I think I'll certainly be able to get to the 86 PCSM score with more flight hours by mid-May, which will help. Again, I'm not set on one airframe and willing to look into most locations that aren't overly restrictive on residency requirements, so I'm hoping my "whole person concept" and flexibility will help get over the age hump. I will certainly look into the unsponsored route when I call the recruiter on Monday and be a little more assertive on my push to get to boards. I have most of the application paperwork completed, so I think MEPS and maybe a few forms that fell through the cracks are all I have left to be completely "spun up" and ready to go. You're 100% right. I need to kick up my game. It's just been a little tough because I'm not clear on which direction I should be focusing on next and which boxes need to be checked in which order/done before approaching squadrons. I figured it would be best to be able to present being complete as possible over going to units and having them say, "Well, you need to do this first before we can consider you." Chicken or the egg, I guess. But, it seems like I should just be going at it from all angles to just get the ball moving. Thanks again!

@Kiloalpha, thank you for that info! I guess just going from zero to figuring out where to go and how to set up the meet is the next step. Is there someone in particular whose number I should be hounding out to touch base with at a unit about drop-ins, or will most usually point you in the right direction calling the switchboard? It seems that most of the units advertising for open slots will give dates for visits, but I wasn't sure how to go about the cold call. @EvilEagle, I appreciate you chiming in about that. I've seen quite a few of your posts and had figured I should ask your thoughts (one of the other squadrons I saw with an age cap was also F-15s), but I'd obviously yet to do so and appreciate your input on this post. Your view makes 100% sense with focusing on places that won't mind me bringing my cane and eating dinner at 4:30, over the ones that aren't interested in and oldie. Thank you for posting. @Brudog13, awesome! You inspired some confidence in me saying you think I've got a decent shot with my scores! Honestly, I'd not heard (or more likely, not understood) about going unsponsored UPT. I've been going through most of this myself and kinda piecing it together as I'm going along. I've spoken with a recruiter, but we were waiting for me to get all my scores back (I guess to make sure that there was a snowball's chance in hell someone would pick me up) and he seems super swamped, so some stuff has taken awhile or fallen through the cracks. I have a decent idea of the speed of bureaucracy with the FD, but military is new territory for me, so I'm not really sure what to expect. I do know that time is of the essence, so I am getting a little hotter under the seat to get the ball rolling, but I am still not totally sure the order I should be going after this stuff with and what takes priority. That said, I'm definitely highly motivated to just get my ass in a seat. I have no qualms flying a heavy and would be more than delighted to get a seat in one. How do I get started with applying for the upcoming unsponsored spot? Thank you so much for the help!

@JustHangingOut, I appreciate the support, bro! Sounds like you’re deeper in the process and it’s going well, which is awesome! Hope it keeps doing well! I fired off my first foray to a heavy unit and need to buckle down. There are a couple more open application periods, but all have brakes (no age waivers and distance from base requirements, mainly) applied. I need to beat the bushes on some close units and hit them up, regardless of open application periods or not, to make inroads. Actually, that’s another question: how does rushing a squadron work? I know some that are open now give dates, but what do you do if no dates? And, more importantly, what does an applicant do at the squadron when rushing? I know letting the guys get to know you is key, but what are you doing at the rush? Bringing cakes/cigars/refreshments, mopping floors, approaching everyone you see? How the hell do you get let on base or know where to go? I guess there have probably been posts about it and I’ll certainly search, but I just haven’t run across much info about it in my travels here yet, but I’ll search more, too. Thanks again!

@Stoker, thanks for the info. I kinda figured the same and I don't have any particular bug to chase only fighters. That level of competition does seem like an added elevation to climb and heavies seem like they could be a lot of fun, so I'm content just about anywhere and flying anything. @JustHangingOut, thank you for the input, as well. I wasn't sure if I should be applying to units that are not openly hiring or not, but it is great to hear that it might still be worth a shot. Hell, could be nice to run out to squadrons now that I've got my PPL; could be a way to build more hours and up my PCSM score.

Thanks for the info, Stoker. I definitely wouldn't say, nor do I expect, to leave UPT and think I'll be at the one weekend/two weeks level. Asking for time off and not wanting to prove yourself/learn more when just starting is never a good move. How the "seasoning" time works once finished with UPT and training in unit is one of the things I'm very unclear about. I've seen posts that talk of a couple years on orders training in unit and others that talked about doing partial years on orders, so I'm not sure what to expect. How does it usually pan out, or does it vary wildly unit to unit? Is it a show up 5 days a week 8-5 kinda thing, or more flexible than that? I guess I'm pretty unsure how the training works in the unit and would certainly appreciate any input or points in the right direction to learn more. Either way, I definitely figured there would be time devoted to the unit after UPT, planned on having to devote that time, and would do what needed to be done. We have the same in the FD; you come out of academy, but you're still on probation while being company trained with extra training, testing, and limitations. Thanks for the point in the direction to the Guard at Westhampton. I actually have a few contacts out there through the FD and work nearby to one of the guys lost in the accident in Iraq a couple weeks ago. I was looking mostly at fixed-wing options since I have my ASEL PPL and not a Rotary license, but I guess it's just as open. Anyway, thank you again for the input. EDIT TO ADD: When you mention applying to everywhere I would consider working, do you think it's worth applying to places that mention not entertaining age waivers or giving a waiver age below my own age? For example, looking at open/upcoming interviews the 144th FW is accepting UPT slots, but their info on the website mentions (and bolds/underlines) candidates over 29 cannot be considered. Are these hard and fast "NO" options, or is it always worth applying? I know persistence is key and they can always just decline after sending the packet, but I also feel like there's a "not following instructions" aspect by sending an application when they specifically state I'd be too old.

Hey, all. Thanks for the great community to help spin up on info about a career in military aviation! I've spent a lot of hours on here reading and lurking, but this is my first post. Might as well make it a big one, right? First, pardon me for any ignorance in information. Although I have spoken with a recruiter (just spoke while typing this, actually, and working on scheduling MEPS), I did a lot of the work thus far myself outside of filling out the application docs. An awful lot of the stuff is foreign to me coming from the civilian world and not having someone guiding me through the process, so I'm sure a lot of it is simple or I've done it out of order. I'm looking for some input and opinions on my chances. I'm a 36 year old FDNY fireman that just obtained my PPL a few months ago. Talking with a fireman buddy that's also in the Reserves about having recently gotten my license, he pointed me back toward military aviation due to the pilot shortage. I had been very interested in it back when I finished my undergrad back in 2004, but the AF AD recruiter I spoke with then told me there was about zero chance for me to get a pilot slot without a STEM degree. So, I thought I was finished until he let me know they were hurting. Here's where I'm at: AFOQT: 89 Pilot; 90 Navigator PCSM: 82, with ability to bump it to 86 with 14 more hours of flying (easily obtainable; in a club and could get it in a few weeks, if necessary). I also think I can bring that TBAS up with the second round now that I know what to expect. Degree: Undergrad in Entrepreneurship from Florida State (3.01) and a Master's in Real Estate Investment from Baruch (3.41) LoRs: Have some decent ones: a retired Colonel that was an A-10 pilot, a Battalion Chief in the FDNY, my direct supervisor (a Captain), my flight instructor (former military and FDNY), and another AD Army Captain I work with. Medical: I haven't gone to MEPS yet, but I just spoke with a recruiter that said he is going to work on schedule me. I've got no current or past health issues/surgeries, I'm within height/weight, excellent vision (no LASIK or glasses) with no depth/color issues, good hearing, etc. I get extensive annuals with the FDNY that cover this stuff, so I'm not just hoping all is okay. Career Goals: I plan on staying the full 20 (or more, honestly) to fly as long as I can. I have no interest in going to the airlines or quitting the FDNY, which I plan on doing another 20 years with, as well. The FDNY is also VERY good with military leave and would, in no way, cause any issues with UPT, seasoning, or drills/deployments. Of course, being a reasonable distance from NYC is preferred, but I'm willing to try units all across the US. I've been told that once you're in, you can transfer, but I don't plan on going in with that as a goal, by any means, and I've got no issues being loyal to a unit and commuting from NYC, as long as they're okay with it. Especially if it's somewhere warm. Haha. And I know that during UPT and seasoning I'll be away from NYC for awhile training, which is also not a big deal. The wife is pretty flexible and understanding, as is the FDNY with paid and unpaid military leave, so there shouldn't be any issues there. Again, warm helps with my wife and I'd love to get a unit somewhere in the South/West, but I/we wouldn't exclude an opportunity just because it's a colder climate. Flying Goals: I'll honestly fly anything I'll actually be flying (not interested in UAVs, ABM, or other non-pilot options) and I'm willing to apply just about anywhere that will give me a shot with my age. That's probably a longer-than-wanted gist of where I stand. I think I can check a lot of the "whole person concept" boxes and will interview well, but I know I'm up there in age and time is working heavily against me, so it's more about having the opportunity at all over worrying about too many of the details. I'm completely willing to get put through the ringer and get told "No," so I'll apply wherever and however many places I can that I have a chance at getting. Flying military has always been a dream; one that I didn't think was possible after getting told no without a STEM degree. I know time is running out, so I want to give it my all and, at the end of the day, if it doesn't happen, know I gave it a solid effort and it just wasn't meant to be. Thanks for reading. I really appreciate your input and time. Stay safe out there.