FDNYOldGuy

I just had this situation and, yes, the AF has the same (I believe; I'm a Reservist, so I can't speak 100% to AD rules). I PCS'd to UPT right after OTS and left the wife and kiddo at home. She was still working and I had the TDY to SERE between OTS and UPT anyway, so it made more sense for her to stay home.

@SocialD They mentioned the possibility of Unsponsored hires FAIP-ing when my batch went through Inpro late last year, but I'm not sure if/how that's playing out. The Unsponsored I know that were interested in it seem to feel as though that option fizzled (at least for -38 tracking) as they have dates/TLNs for T1s already. I'm sure it's not as easy as 1-2-3, so I don't know where the bumps may be.

THIS OTHER LOGGING THREAD has some pretty good info. I linked to page 14, since it had some specific explanations of UPT time, but the whole thread is good. In a few other convos I've had, I'm of the understanding that if you have a PPL and an ASEL rating, you CAN log T6 time as PIC on flights you are the sole manipulator of the controls. It won't count as "sign for the plane" PIC time that some airlines are counting, but it does count as PIC since you are the sole manipulator. YMMV and opinions seem to differ, but that's my take...

BLUF: AFAIK, they aren't doing waivers for Active Duty that high up in age, but they are going through for Reserves/Guard. However, if you want it, you better start getting your ducks in a row and reaching out to any and all contacts you have from past service that might be able to help out. Networking is what makes this all happen. They have definitely eased rules, but I wouldn't push too much longer. You'll have a little more leeway with prior service, but you're not "buying" back the years you were in; they just might give you more of a look and be willing to work the age waiver for higher ages if you've got prior service time. That said, it's not a regular occurrence or given and I'd get cracking ASAFP. The process can be long; especially if you go the Guard route, which seems to take quite a bit longer than the Reserves for all of the boxes to be checked. I've also heard horror stories of waivers getting shot down at various levels in the NGB months into the process, so definitely be aware of the process if you push that route. Reserves you can get the ball rolling with a Reserves recruiter right now, work on getting MEPS and an FC1 done on your own dime, and get all of the other paperwork done by the time you sit down with any units for interviews. If you wait for a unit to hire you and push you through those steps, you're going to draw out quite a bit. Honestly, I would start applying yesterday to any and every unit you can. If you're down for the C5, HERE'S A LINK TO THEIR UPCOMING HIRING at Dover. This is where I got scooped up and I couldn't be happier. They're an awesome group of guys and they're not strangers to doing a waiver (source: my old, non-prior-ass getting one at 36 that they helped immensely with pushing from their end). I'm CERTAINLY not the norm, but I was able to get from hired, through the UPT board, and stepping foot into OTS almost exactly 6 months later and will be starting UPT in less than 11 months from hire date. That is a pretty blistering pace for the process; especially with a waiver. That said, I did a TON of my own legwork with the recruiter before getting hired, got MEPS and my FC1, and a lot of paperwork out of the way PRIOR to interviewing with the 709th. They just pushed their hiring paperwork/my waiver through to get me to the next UPT board. Good luck out there! Feel free to hit me up if you have any questions.

You've got one hell of a packet, dude. While I know nothing of the hiring inner workings as a new guy in the training pipeline, I think you could write your ticket, especially in the helo or heavy world, with your scores and background. Gonna second @Stoker completely; especially on the Reserves timeline. I'm old as shit and needed an ETP, but was able to hustle and go from unit hiring to OTS in right about 6 months with the Reserves; that's with pushing the ETP. Guard has supposedly streamlined things, but I've heard more than a few horror stories of drawn out processes and would expect a longer ride, if you go that route. Biggest advice on next steps would be to get talking to a Recruiter to get the ball rolling on paperwork and your FC1. If you can get over the medical hump, the rest opens up quite a bit and I think you'd have no problem getting snagged. Good luck!

No idea, unfortunately. I will say that you won't be able to live in NJ (legally) while working for NYPD. Us and NYPD can't a mile across the Hudson in Jersey City, but you can live 100 miles out in Montauk on LI. Of course, there are folks that don't fully follow those NY State only residency rules, but you're doing so at your own risk and, if you get caught, it can be painful. Sounds like you've got a pretty open batch of options, so good luck! You've got a lot of time, too, so just be persistent!

It completely depends on hiring needs, but it seems a lot of places are twice a year; with once annually being the most common. McGuire has 3 options (2 KC-10 squadrons and a C-17 squadron) that seem to hire a decent amount. I've heard the KC-10 squadrons supposedly have low manning, but I've also met a metric f-ton of people recently going to fly for those squadrons. If you go Guard, you've got NYANG C17s at Stewart that will click off your season/mountain/civil service job points. NYPD pays pretty well, you're definitely seeing some interesting stuff and have a lot of options for work environments, and The City is pretty solid with supporting military service. That unit has quite a few NYPD/FDNY members, too. Anyway, knock out those AFOQT and TBAS tests and see where your scores will take you. It'll give you a much better idea where you stand that you'll know what doors will be open. Then you can turn your focus to the other pieces.

Awesome, dude. You've got the right mindset, for sure. Make them tell you, "No," because, until then, you don't know for sure that it won't work. Send as many apps as you can, even if they say "no waivers" because it's all good practice. Even more so, you never know who might see your packet and think you'd be a good fit for ### unit and reach out to their buddy there to pass along your packet. And I'm flattered, dude, but my story and background is no better than anyone else's, by any stretch. I got lucky, for sure, but I also created a bit of my own luck by trying to get my best foot forward and put as much legwork as possible to remove as many potential hurdles as possible. Keep up the good work! Start firing out applications (I have a little time, so feel free to shoot over your packet if you need another set of eyes) and apply anywhere you think you'd consider being. Have good (legitimate) reasons for applying to any unit you do and sell yourself to the best of your ability. It's not impossible until the last fighter unit says, "No," right? Good luck!

If you're set on fighters, the advice given by @EvilEagle is probably the best insider info you can get for rushing fighter units with your age and scores. And, not to be too callous but, while I'm sure no one would fault you for leaving Navy OCS due to a health issue with your pregnant wife, quitting a program and not returning will likely give units pause, even if the reason was one most would understand is legitimate. Coupling that with your age, it'll probably be hard to convince them to go for the waivers. All of that said, if you're dead set on flying fighters, you shouldn't let anyone else dissuade you. Until each unit you'd fly for tells you "No," anything is possible, right? Time isn't your friend, though, so you need to get on it, if you're going to try. However, if you aren't locked into only flying fighters, your scores are decent and a solid packet will likely get you a foot in the door at heavy units. They're much more willing to do waivers. Source: I've just graduated OTS and PCS-ing to UPT next week having just turned 37 last month; thanks to the hard work of a Reserves heavy unit working an ETP for me. So, you've just gotta decide if your interest in flying military, whatever the airframe, outweighs your preference for fighters.

A whole lot of legwork/networking and my penchant for annoying a whole lot of people, honestly. Pretty sure my recruiters (yes, had to work with a couple) hated me and continue to stab voodoo dolls of me, even in their retirement. But, it got me to where I wanted to be. I wish I could offer better advice, but it really was just a whole lot of luck, my own hustle to find info, and getting in touch with the right people at the right time. I had the same luck with my AFOQT/TBAS scheduling, too. Judging from a lot of folks I've talked to recently and posts on here, a lot of the openings (FC1, AFOQT/TBAS, etc.) to be able to do a lot of that stuff have been closed. Pipelines are jamming up with pilots, so the chance to just shuffle people in for that stuff seems to be greatly diminished. So, my apologies for not being able to provide specific details, but it really was a lot of hustling on my part, networking, and chance that isn't an exact roadmap that will work for others. The main thing I can advise is to do a lot of your own work getting boxes checked, if you really want this. It's easy to get frustrated and die on the vine if you're always waiting for someone else to tell you what to do next, waiting to hear back from someone, or waiting for someone else to schedule something for you. Research the hell out of everything you need to do, network and ask questions, and handle as much of it as you can by yourself. It'll pay off two-fold; first by proving that you're serious by taking the initiative and second by getting the networking wheels moving. No one cares about you getting this job as much as you, so do what you can to prove you want it to those that you encounter in your path to wings. Good luck!

That was it; I went on my own dime to FC1, before I was hired by anyone. I figured it would help with my age already being an issue to have another potential hurdle out of the way.

I think I can help some, but I'll preface it with I had a very odd run at things and did a whole lot of it out of whack with the normal progression and timeline. That said, you're right on the Reserves pipeline all being on continuous orders; although it's not ONE set of orders that spells the whole pipeline out, but just a continuous path through all of the training with orders cut back to back so you're never "off" orders and not in training/not getting paid. For the Reserves, all pilots (no matter the airframe) are put into the 340th FTG, so there's one POC handling the entire training pipeline. So, technically, we're not owned by our home units until (at least) after UPT. No drill weekends while waiting to leave and no real interaction with your home units, besides check-ins. The 340th handles all pay, travel/PCS, orders, leave, questions, etc.; nothing is handled by your home unit. The Guard has each individual unit handling things, which means each unit is fighting for limited training slots in each piece of training (OTS, SERE, IFT, UPT, etc.), which can sometimes lead to big breaks in the training. They also "own" you immediately, so you're attending drill weekends and all issues (pay, orders, travel, etc.) are handled directly by them. Any waivers have to go up the chain from unit, to state, to NGB, which can be disjointed, from what I've heard. Pros and cons to both, but I've appreciated the Reserves single POC/continuous pipeline aspects and knew it would move things a little faster along, which was important with my advanced age. Anyway, in the Reserves pipeline, you'll go to Inprocessing at Randolph about 2 weeks (can vary, but usually within a month) before your OTS start date. That will be a separate set of orders than OTS and you'll be back off orders after it. Starting with OTS, they'll do just about anything, scheduling-wise, they can to keep you on continuous orders (less than 30 days break in training/authorized delay). As of now, I can only verify this is through UPT, which will also include SERE and IFT (if you don't have a PPL already) and not further through FTU/unit seasoning, because that's my experience thus far. The orders are broken up, so it won't be one set that takes you through everything, but they write them to be back to back as you go through the pipeline so you won't have any breaks in pay/being on AD orders. For instance, I have OTS orders that end after graduation, that follow the very next day with my PCS to my UPT base, break in training, SERE, break in training, and then start of UPT/T6s. I had initially seen orders taking me completely through UPT, but they got pulled back before full approval and they were cut down in number of days, but the timeline and dates are the same. Speaking of which, I dunno if I've ever put a full timeline of my little journey up here, so here goes: Dec 2017 - AFOQT Mar 2018 - TBAS May 2018 - MEPS July 2018 - FC1 July 2018 - Interviewed with Reserves heavy squadron; told I was hired less than 36 hours after leaving. They hustled to get my age ETP/waiver signed and up the chain, as well as my packet together, for the next UPT/OTS board, which was beyond awesome and super helpful. I also annoyed anyone I could to help expedite things along. Plus, being old as hell (I was 36 then) helped, too. So, my paperwork likely moved quicker than normal due to that stuff, I think. Sep 2018 - UPT/OTS board; picked up by board Dec 2018 - Inpro with 340th FTG at Randolph Jan 2019 - OTS Mar 2019 - PCS to Vance April 2019 - SERE May 2019 - May 2020 UPT (I have orders only to T1 start, due to FY break/funding FTU and Prog Tour dates TBD, but likely following a PCS back to my home base at the completion of UPT, before the TDY to the FTU. YMMV at all of this, but that's the general Reserves system and timeline.

Sorry to hear about the struggles, Duck. As a kid of divorce, I might be one of the weirdos that thinks it was a great thing. Not seeing my parents fight in front of me, not learning how relationships work from watching 2 dysfunctional people who didn't really like each other try to coexist, and actually forming 1 on 1 relationships with them was huge and well worth not having the two of them under 1 roof. As a couple others have stated, don't let the fog between you and her creep in between you and your kids. It seems like your daughter already knows the deal by moving out of her room and choosing to be closer to you; just keep being an awesome dad and don't bring them into the fight. They'll know the deal. Secondly, just from what you've said about some actions, it sounds like the relationship hasn't been a partnership for awhile. As many others brought up, this could be the start of your new life and your ability to find someone who is truly your partner in life and compliments who you are now. Take care of yourself, keep being a great dad, and don't hit the booze too hard. It'll get better.

I didn't try that specific form and, granted, my Mac is approaching a decade old, so it's very likely it could from it being ancient in computer terms. But, I run into a lot of issues with it giving me this below when I go to open AF Forms (emailed and from e-pubs). This is actually what showed up in an email from my unit today. Some of the forms loaded; some gave me this. It'll open if I specifically select it and tell it to open with Adobe, but it won't open with Preview. If @Curtiss JN-4 is using an older MacBook, he or she could be having the same issue.

If you're using a Mac, you need to download some sort of Adobe PDF viewer and use it to be able to open any of the e-publishing stuff.

@MooseClub, thanks for the great input! I am sure a lot of it will be dependent on my personal situation and require me talking to the housing office, but I appreciate you taking the time to respond. So, from what I gather, if I’m unaccompanied as Reserves, I can apply for a BAH waiver since my rate where my family is/HOR is because it is higher than I’d get at Vance. It takes awhile (~10 weeks after applying for it) to get approved and paid for it from what we were told, but it is an option. I understood it as they wouldn’t give me a house on base AND still pay the higher HOR BAH, unless it was within a set amount of time (30 days, maybe) before they’d arrive, so I’d have to stay in the dorms until closer to when they’re going to arrive. This is good to know, too. If I could squeeze a few more days, I could hold off on her work end date and we could go together. Then again, it might be easier to do the DITY myself and send them via plane, but I’m not sure how that changes things. Anyway, to your second post, it seems like they’ve got some new houses on base down there, which is nice, and I’ve heard they’re the nicer ones of UPT bases; if not a bit small 1200sf/3 beds. Management companies are always bad, it seems.

Not sure if this is the right spot for this question, so please forgive me if I'm in the wrong box, but I have a few questions about UPT housing; specifically switching from unaccompanied to accompanied (Reserves). I'm also non-prior service, so I'm a little further behind the curve with how everything works, as well. I'm headed to Vance after OTS, so I guess this question isn't particular to Vance, but maybe there are some Vance-specific pointers someone might have. Anyway, I've got some considerable BITs/ADs in my orders, as well as SERE in between PCS-ing to Vance and my actual UPT start date. My wife and 8 month old kiddo will be staying back in NYC due to her work and she won't be finished with it until 2 days before my RNLTD. But, they will certainly be able to join me before my official UPT start date. First question: I gather I'll be doing a partial DITY PCS move to Vance and staying in the dorms before going TDY to SERE? I'd heard that it's possible to move into housing (we were planning on staying in on-base housing when she gets there to be closer to other families in the same boat), but I think there's too much time in between me arriving and them joining me. Not to mention, I'd rather ensure I can utilize the waiver to get the higher NYC rate to cover my bills there over losing it due to living in a house on base before they arrive (if I would by moving out of the dorms). Second question: Is it considered to partial DITYs if I move myself there in March, then move her and my son later in May? Any pitfalls or things to watch out for doing this? Third question: I'm guessing RNLTDs are pretty set in stone and I won't be able to push that, so to avoid a packing/driving frenzy of nearly 1,500 miles from NYC to Vance in less than 2 days, I'm going to have to pack everything early and move a few days before they'll be able to fly down and join once she's done with her work. She can just stay with friends for a little, so that's not a huge deal, but we'd all be going separately (again) and I'm not sure how that'll work. Last question (for now, I guess): all of this is dependent on housing availability and when I could get a house on base. Will I just talk to the housing office when I get there about hammering all of this out? I am sure I'm missing a lot of stuff in here, but that's what I've got kicking around so far. Any input you might have in going through this or hearing others stories of doing similar would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for taking the time!

@TX dude, you likely won't get your official training dates until Inprocessing, which is usually a couple weeks before you're headed to OTS. I'm headed to Inpro next week/projected for Jan OTS and still have yet to hear anything about future training dates. I know a couple others going with me to Inpro that have gotten tentative UPT dates and base assignments, as well as a couple that can't get any info and don't know anything more. So, it seems like nothing is in stone until you are sitting down with the orders person at Inpro. I'm totally guessing, but you and @ssup's next possible OTS classes are the March/early April TFOT dates. If you're on track for those, it means you'll likely get gained by the 340th in late-Jan or Feb sometime with a week trip to Randolph for Inpro probably being in early-mid March, unless those OTS classes are full and you're delayed to the next ones. Totally extrapolating on all of that based off of my experience, though, and YMMV.

I got a waiver at 36 (will be 37 by the time a T6 seat graces my rear) with non-prior service, so it's entirely possible. It's all about the legwork that you put in yourself to show them (squadron, recruiter, boards, etc.) that you're ready to go and finding a unit that wants to also put in the work to get the waiver moved up the chain. Get your AFOQT/TBAS testing done, get working with a recruiter to get MEPS and (if you can) FC1 out of the way, and research/network the shit out of this site and every other person that farts in your general direction you think might be able to help. If you get all your tools working and put in max effort, anything can happen. I just stuck with heavies because I knew competition was lighter, my chances were better, and the ball would be moving faster; all important since I was working against Father Time. I also realized in my info-gathering efforts and convos with squadrons that I'm much more of a heavy-mentality/fit kinda guy, but that'll depend on your personal preference and the MO of units you're interviewing with. I got my share of rejections or just no reply email at all for packets sent, but I went 2 for 2 for interviews (an ANG and a Reserve) when I got lucky. I chose Reserves, besides the dudes I met/the plane/the squadron vibe hitting it out of the park, also because everything I saw pointed to the process with the Reserves being much more streamlined and quicker than ANG, although I've heard NGB is trying to speed their process up. And that was the case: I hadn't even spoken to a recruiter or taken an AFOQT a year ago and I'm heading to Inprocessing 1 year and 1 day from the when I sat down for the AFOQT, so it definitely went pretty quick. You can certainly make it happen if you put in the work to get yourself as spun-up as possible; make connections everywhere you can that might be able to help you along the way; and put together a solid, professional packet to apply to a lot of places and don't let any rejections shut you down. All that stuff, coupled with being a good dude/bringing good "whole person" concept to the squadrons, can give you a very solid shot. Good luck out there. Feel free to hit me up if you have any other questions.

Like many others have said, you're in the on-deck circle when many haven't gotten that close. I have spoken to a couple folkss in my (pretty limited) travels in getting a slot that were hired as alternates and got the spot when one of the main picks split to another offer (perhaps more of a round nose world thing, but still, it happens). Don't take it personal that they say "we like you; we just like this guy a little better." Them's the digs. Keep asking for feedback from anyone you've spoken with at your visits and you may catch a morsel in there that you've missed or that they're hinting at they would like you to do better. It could be something out of your control: maybe you're super young and they feel like "you've got time?" Or maybe you kill the interview, but you're not trying to talk enough to guys outside of it during the meet and greets? Or maybe you're hitting the booze a bit too much during the socializing, or not bringing booze when you go? It could be any number of little things that get you almost there, so try to find out what you might be able to do better. Either way, you're at least getting a chance that most of the others that come interview aren't and you're close to the promised land. Keep your head up and keep trying. Good luck!

+1 on the offer for help. I'm no expert, I never sent packets or interviewed with fighters (interviewed with 2 heavies and got offers for both) ,and just another soul starting off on this adventure, but I'll certainly put my .02 in for feedback on a packet, if anyone wants more eyes on it. Don't get disheartened. You're vying for a very coveted job and competition is fierce, but we can always improve and keep plugging away. It'll happen when/with whom it's supposed to!

Don't stress, bro. The board took my old ass, so you're probably just fine; especially if your squadron is behind you and makes a call up there (mine is awesome and pushed hard for me, which certainly helped).

Likewise! Was a whirlwind of emotions in a short time period, those emails. Hopefully it means we’re all on deck for one of the Jan dates! Maybe we start a thread when we (hopefully) get the final okay that we’re going?

I went half mast, dude. That's a killer idea and it looks great! I'm sure it helped you stand out a bit. Good luck!

Ahhh. My mistake. I had heard that we can sit to take those higher equivalency exams, but I wasn't sure how not having a PPL played into that. A little searching and I see FAR 61.73 allows military pilots around the PPL first requirement. The only other potential reason for getting a PPL (although, seems to be hotly debated) is logging hours (mainly T6 time) during UPT before sitting for that equivalency exam. If you have a PPL, you have the type rating (ASEL) and can log PIC time ("sole manipulator of controls" time; not "signed for the aircraft" time). It won't help with airline required hours (depending on the airline), but it seems like that can count toward FAA hours required for higher ratings like ATP. So, it seems if you're worried about being able to log all available hours PIC, then having the PPL beforehand might be able to make the 60+ hours of T6 time loggable as PIC to get you closer to the ATP hours requirement. That's how I understand it, anyway, but I can certainly be wrong about that.