SocialD

You're talking about a group of guys that were told their entire career that they didn't need to save their own cash for retirement because their pensions were a sure thing...we all know how that worked out for many of them. A lot of them have been through the B-scale, a furlough or two, a bankruptcy and more black swans events than they can count. They all know that the company can wipe their ass with this agreement should they go back into bankruptcy or otherwise become insolvent. My guess is many of the old timers will be very wary of such an agreement. I know many of the old timers on the DAL boards are essentially scoffing it because they know it can be taken away with the stroke of a pen. Not saying you won't have some takers, but I don't think it's will be as slam dunk as some think.

I guess I would say calm down, pour a scotch and smoke a lucky. I certainly don't blame people for jumping on orders as you worry about providing for the family. Guys going on orders will help the situation out a bit. Thankfully, the airlines are wisely waiving the 5 year USERRA clock...hopefully this is expanded. None of us should be anywhere close to pulling up the floor boards to keep the fire going. At DAL, we've been running at such high ALVs, that simply dropping us down to the bottom of the ALV window will help ease off furloughs. We still have lots of training going on which will keep instructors in the sims (requiring more guys on the line and on the list). In the next year or two we'll retire over 1300-1800 pilots which only helps. It may be a bumpy road for a bit, but we may come out of this a little better off than many are thinking right now. As we speak, AAL just rolled out a pretty generous voluntary leave package (even continue to get paid to age 65 while essentially retire early) which will be helpful as well. DAL is offering 55 hour no fly lines (SILs), which pays me about the same as a month of orders would as a 18 yr LTC. I hope I'm actually senior enough to get a SIL. Ohio (and many others) just shut down all bars and restaurants, the fed cut the rate of 0 and fired up the quantitative easing machine. Trump just invoked the Stafford act which means we may all be headed to a federally mandated home quarantine....that's bad for everyone (other than killing the virus lol), so we're all in this mess together. If it comes down to it and we do start to furlough, I think I'll be ok with about 4,800 junior to me. That said, if I have the option to go on orders and it will save a junior guy from furlough, then I'll probably jump to mloa, even if its just 4ish months of orders. I've run the number and as an O-5, just with all the AFTPs/UTAs/AT, I'll be sitting at ~50k gross. Add in 4 months of orders and I'm at 100k. It's not anyway what I'm making now, but it's way more than I really need to live comfortably and still enjoy my life. Thankfully I paid cash for my house and all my toys! Anyway, I'd have a tough time looking a fellow pilot in the eye and saying sorry bro, I can't take that pay cut as he gets kicked to the street. Were all in this together. This is a great lesson in not being a complete dick about losing pay to come out to the gaurd (standing by for the people's elbow from Hindsight2020😁). Also a lesson in not leaving your mil gig right away and continuing to promote if able. I haven't run the numbers (mentioned above) for O-4, but I'm certainly glad I finished ACSC as the extra pay will only be helpful in times like this. Speaking of, time to get ready for a day at the Guard. Supposed to double turn...we'll see if we even turn a wheel today.

Don't necessarily disagree with you, but it's going to be A LOT harder sell when your management team was doing 12B in stock buyback and making 6+B leading up to this temporary event.

I say keep the post Huggy, you were spot on!

Ya supposedly we have furlough protections for everyone on the at the signing of our last contract. However, I'm not sure it's worth the paper it's written on in times like this. If they need to furlough, they're furlough what they need. We supposedly get 90 days notice and 1 month pay per year of service up to 6. That said, I don't think we're really there yet...especially if they think this will dry up in the next 2-4 months. We've been fairly understaffed in a lot of categories and running guys at high ALVs (80+) even in the winter. Dropping them down to a more normal ALV 70ish will provide lots of relief in itself. Throw in some SILs and maybe some guys jumping on orders and that will go a long way. Won't totally solve the issue but doesn't hurt. The 300 number referenced in Huggy's post likely includes 120 or so regional jets.

Ya, early outs won't make much of a dent, as AirGuardian said, why leave early. I certainly would not expect senior dude to leave early...those dudes have already been through a lot in their careers. I'm just hoping I'm senior enough to bid one of those 55 hour no fly lines they'll be offering in May or June. Well...now that the DOD said we can't travel, maybe I'd rather just take 72 hours reserve lines to sit at home.

Me too! Ya, I was thinking of going Sun N' Fun, wonder how much it will be impacted by all this CV stuff. I see they have a document posted on their website addressing CV. You going to end up out East at all?

SV-80? I gave the HARM office all my graduation certificates when I returned from training. Either way, keep copies of your certificates.

I'm with Tank on this one, I think it will be mostly a thing of the past by the time airshow season really kicks off. In the mean time, NCAA tourney games in Ohio will be played with no spectators...

We could probably do the world a favor and kill the 24 hours mainstream med..errr...entertainment channels! I'm all for giving a virus its due but damn this is a bit ridiculous. Either way, this too shall pass.

We used to get TAMP, but that went away with when we lost the three for ones....thanks a lot Fresno!

Proof that even guys who do some seriously badass shit can still end up as the head rower in the douche canoe!

Most of my full time was on or before that timeframe, so that makes sense. I remember hearing that some of them were being cut but I believe some are still there. Obviously a special case, but the outgoing ANGRC/CC (outstanding dude!) has been out on MLOA (from DAL) for well over 10 years. When I was young and naive, I learned my lessons on "deals" from the government. It's the reason I decided to go down the part-timer path with no desire to ever go full time again, and a major reason why I don't sit alert anymore. Not enough info to say if it worked out well or not. He may have taken his slightly reduced retirement, made 7% on his bonus, landed a gig that made him a bunch more money and/or a second retirement and never had to deal with DTS again! 😁 When you look at it through the lens of a bean counter, or think of airline execs leaning on the .gov, it all makes sense. They want a full time force, they just don't want to pay for it...which I get. Kind of like when we had wildly different benefits based on whether you went vol or non-vol on non-contingency deployments (12301d vs 12304b...finally changed for the good). However, I never knew our tanker bros were getting title-10 exempt orders. I assume those are early retirement eligible? Good on ya, that's truly a great deal! How many "man-years" (can we still say that? Person-years? Human-years?) of orders does your squadron get per year? Each alert squadron gets 10 sets of orders per year. For a while some squadron got 12, but I think we're all back down to 10.

Not sure what is considered alpha or bravo alert. It's like, you stay in a facility on base 24/7 and when the horn goes off, you go running for the jets.

Well I'm guessing it's kinda like how the NGB staff takes care of themselves with USERRA exempt orders (though I heard those are getting cut as well), but the peons don't get the same. For us fighters, our alert orders are title 32 and we only get a title 10 day IF we have a real world scramble, and only for that day. I've sat alert at two other units and it's the same everywhere. They've been "talking" about getting them USERRA exempt for quite some time, but it gets shot down year after year. It's part of the reason I don't sit alert anymore.

Eh, I'm guessing we'll have a much smaller PS check this year, which if you treat it as you should (found money), it shouldn't be a big deal. If it came to that I'd think we may just stop hiring for a while. At a company meeting this week, they said they don't have plans on stopping hiring/classes anytime soon (of course...hire until you furlough lol) as we're already behind on hiring. Also, if anyone is turning their nose up at cargo haulers, they're idiots. The only reasons I didn't go there was I was called by DAL first and I live very close to a major DAL base. Honestly, if this situation is scaring you, you may not have the stomach to be in this industry. I'd expect this to be one of the many threats of the day we'll see over the coming decades. Then again, I was wrong one other time...so there's that!

If you can get a fighter (preferable single seat), go there. If you can't go fighters, find the closest ANG squadron to your home town (or wherever you want to live some day) and pick whatever plane they fly.

My opinion...you don't get that cushy consulting/board member gigs by ruffling feathers.

Only works if you don't plan on going anywhere. 75 hours but you're still technically on the hook. 50 hours and no strings attached...I'd take that all year. 50 hours is more than enough for me.

Right, the last time we put a non-fighter guy in there, he made blues monday a thing...

Party just floated the keg...we're all just losing our buzz while they tap the next keg. Man, I'd take me some of that. Vacation!

Man, we're getting screwed! It gets shot down every time we've pushed to get them exempt. No skin off my back as I don't have the time or the desire to be full time long enough to get me to an AD retirement. Must be a different pot of money 🤣.

Don't know what is considered alpha alert, but our (fighters) ONE orders are NOT currently USERRA exempt. Are your ONE orders actually exempt?

Honestly, did anyone ever really believe that this wouldn't be the case? It's like the battered wife that goes back to her abusive husband....no no, it will be different this time.

Yup, 3 of my squadron mates got the call back in 6 months and a 4th didn't get hired on his second try. One of the guys that was not hired at his legacy interview had been hired by both FedEx and UPS in the two week prior to that interview. Don't just expect to show up and take the job, unless it's AAL, if you get called down there it's basically yours to lose. By far, they had the most chill and relaxed interview I've ever done. Very few people weren't hired. That said, still show up prepared.