slackline

So, I'm curious what the point of your question is? Are you somehow implying that those with liberal views on this board somehow don't stand for the same thing? Based off what you just said, I take it you're not military. Maybe my reading comprehension sucks... If not, you feel like you can come on here and question what these people, these active duty military members, or vets have as a purpose? You think when they signed the blank check for "up to, and including their lives" that they had ulterior motives? Why should anyone answer your questions? Because you can field dress a deer? Just curious. And if you had genuine curiosity about how they felt like patriots, not just whether they measured up to some standard you have that no one on here cares about, I sincerely apologise for my tone. Otherwise, I'd defend every single one of these people, ultra Trump fan or die-hard Biden supporter, against some wannabe prepper who thinks he's got a lock on patriotism. To the rest of the board, sorry. I've hit my limit. I voluntarily put myself in timeout. I'll just be over here in the pissed off old guy corner screaming at kids to get off my grass... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

All great points, honestly. I think another great thing to discuss that runs parallel with every one of these points is upping manning/funding for mental health specialists so we can stop calling police to handle situations they have zero business being involved in. I am curious where you get your data on standards for entry though because I know some huge mental rocks and people that don’t look to ever have seen the inside of a gym. Maybe they were in shape at one point, but they don’t belong in a uniform now... Maybe the criminal background is all you’re referring to, but I don’t think one has to be very intelligent to be a beat cop. So, an unpopular point is redirecting funding away from the militarization and making of cops to “appear” more like a military force. More time spent on deescalation, legit training that is recurring to constantly ensure they know how to handle the stressors they’ll be facing, and a longer pipeline with actual standards required to be maintained throughout their career. You redirect some of the funding you can up the manning and their pay. More numerous cops with higher pay equals less danger faced per individual. Just thoughts I have on it... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

You serious Clark? (Almost time for the best Christmas movie ever) Let’s slowly step through this. I must be getting old because my frustration with people unwilling to do any mental exercise on their own is growing... If, the system/training/historical trends teach police to fear POC more than white people, they are more willing to use force, earlier than they would otherwise. That does not equate to a police officer being racist. He/she is acting on the guidance of said institution. That is made fairly obvious by the fact that there are plenty of police POC that are using force disproportionately against POC as well. The facts don’t lie. I’ll tell you the same thing I told Guardian, go back and read it in this thread. More white people having force used against them does not equate to them being just as targeted. There are simply more white people, almost 9x more white people. There are countless cases (already cited in here) documenting the fact that white criminals are way more likely to have a weapon and use that weapon against the police than POC are. Say whatever you want about POC being more violent, more likely to commit crimes, but you are simply ignoring the circumstances they find themselves in. BY NO MEANS DOES THAT EXCUSE ANY CRIME THEY COMMIT, but it sure does make you understand it a whole lot better. And oh by the way, very few crimes should result in the death of a suspect. INCREDIBLY EXTREME and apples to oranges example to illustrate my point: a wife is abused by her husband for years both physically and mentally. She’s been sent to the hospital many times by him. She finally loses it one day, and while he’s verbally abusing her, she walks up behind him in the kitchen and stabs him. Her crime is still 100% a crime, but it sure is more relatable and understandable. Here are two new additions to the plethora of data found in this thread to back up these facts: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/2330443X.2019.1704330 From the abstract: “I present several approaches considering the shooting locations both as fixed and also as a random sample. In both cases, I find overwhelming evidence of a racial disparity in shooting victims with respect to local population demographics but substantially less disparity after accounting for local arrest demographics.” https://scholarship.law.columbia.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3660&context=faculty_scholarship From the abstract: “We find that, across several circumstances of police killings and their objective reasonableness, Black suspects are more than twice as likely to be killed by police than are persons of other racial or ethnic groups; even when there are no other obvious circumstances during the encounter that would make the use of deadly force reasonable.” I fail to see how my position that there are problems in the system, leading to racial disparities in the use of force by LEOs, makes me a bleeding heart liberal. Criminals should 100% pay for their crimes, but rarely, if ever with their lives unless actively in the process of trying to seriously injure/kill someone else. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Whatever garbage you say after this is my own fault for coming back to this stupidity... Please explain to me why it is worth my time to go back and repost well thought out arguments, documented statistics, and reasoned arguments just so you can ignore them again? If we were arguing some new aspect, then by all means, call out the lack of facts. The facts are all here on everything that has been said by me today. Read the FCIF, son. You've made some bold statements about the function of the AF with "people like me" and that would lead me to believe you're either not all that experienced, or you're one of those guys in the squadron people avoid because you're incredibly opinionated and just not fun to have these discussions with. Follow the example of some of the other hyper-conservatives on here that listen, respond with reason, rationality, and often, even logic. Don't immediately call someone a troll because you disagree. Before you say I do the same, why don't you go back and look at (the only person I can think of) when I implied sim was a troll. See just how many garbage, angry, unsupported posts that cat has made before I said anything. FLEA, Lord Ratner, KA and others I can't think of are on your side, but they are head and shoulders above you in the how-to-argue-a-point department. Maybe ask them for some pointers. I think it was Lord Ratner or FLEA who just said it, but we're (them and me, not you I guess[emoji2373]) like 80% on the same page for most topics. The 20% we don't see eye to eye on are incredibly informative for me. They've helped me open the aperture quite a bit, helped me solidify my defense of other areas, and sometimes made me scratch my head. Dudes/dudettes are legit. You don't seem like a troll, but you do come across like my 18 year old who is an inch deep in a lot of political topics, but gets super emotional super quick trying to come off as knowledgeable in all of those topics.. You can't wait to fight with anyone posting a dissenting opinion, make tons of unsubstantiated accusations, and then ignore when they provide you with well thought-out responses. Seriously, I'm not sure (unless you are trolling me, then bravo, well done) how you're missing this. Go back and re-read the post I made where I asked you to repost questions. I also did my best to go back and find those questions and answer them. You never responded to any of those answers to my recollection. If you did, my apologies, I'm old... Your hypocrisy comment is laughable on the surface. I have admitted my error in many posts, acknowledged where others had good points and thanked them even. If I make a hypocritical statement it is out of error, and I try to correct that. Nott perfect , or even in the ballpark, but I sure as heck ain't guilty of 90% of the stuff you say. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Careful, there’s a kid on here who’ll call you out for not re-hashing EVERYTHING you’ve already said many times. You and I don’t agree on this topic, but I totally respect you and your position because I’ve read it many times. I wouldn’t further ask you to repost it all because I’m too lazy or stupid to have read it the first few times... Was that too on the nose? I kind of apologize, it was also a little passive aggressive, but at least I recognize it right? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ad nauseam. Stupid spelling... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Okay buddy, my patience with your inability to comprehend what is contained in the written word is at an end. This will be the last time I engage with you (if you’re quiet, I’m sure you’ll hear a hushed cheer from the Baseops.net ranks) because you consistently show an inability to understand. You clearly didn’t read the part where I said I’m not wasting any more time posting facts in here because it has been done AD NAUSEUM by many others. Usually those facts are immediately followed by someone who disagrees posting alternate reality or cherry picked facts to counter them. If you’re too lazy to read what has been posted in here many, many times, I can’t help you. I think we’ve had the conversation on age as well. You might be surprised who you’re accusing of being a young LT, but it’s cool. Keep going. You’ve made great comments in the past on other topics, but I fear, as you’ve demonstrated many times, you’re so set in your own ways on this topic so as to render worthless any future attempts to discuss. You keep on keeping on. I’ll try not to screw up the AF at my level, you try read the words that are actually written. Guess what, the world will press on... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Except for the fact that your bar napkin math doesn’t account for repeat offenders. I have 8 fun trips to vacation spots during that time, and have lost more than my fair share of friends. Not saying your point isn’t taken, but that it isn’t an apples to apples comparison. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Big, massive, enormous difference in what I said and calling that cop racist. Systemic racism doesn’t require racist people. The system has biases that say that POC are more dangerous than white people, so they’re more prone to reacting with violence quicker to POC than to white people. I highly doubt that cop is racist. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That’s funny right there. You guys jump on any chance to label people you don’t agree with as racist. The statistics have been posted a million times. I’m not going to go out and find them for you, yet again, simply because you choose to ignore them. I’ll admit, I’m providing anecdotal evidence, but do a quick google search my friend. You’ll find a lot of evidence where white people are given much more time and opportunity to “put down the” insert weapon here... POC flinch and cops shoot. Doesn’t matter if they’re black or white or Asian cops. Again, the evidence has been posted in this very thread at a minimum 15-20 times. You choose to rationalize/justify it away. Calling it radical feminism or very liberal doesn’t somehow make you right in this very conservative echo chamber. Give me a break. Sim frequently posts garbage with zero explanations from incredibly questionable sources, so why would this time be any different. Feel free to call me a troll if it makes you feel better. He posts his memes or videos as if they’re exclamation points to an argument, and no further words need be shared. Give me a break. Chill with your righteous indignation. I know very conservative people that I don’t agree with on a few things that recognize systemic racism. You guys have yet to provide real proof it doesn’t. You simply rationalize/justify it away. I’m here, in part, to learn from the smart people on here, but also to be one of the voices that challenges people’s preconceived notions. Sorry if you don’t like it. Again, the evidence abounds. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Agree mostly, but the risk most definitely is part of the job. If your own life is 100% your focus, I think “serving and protecting” is the wrong job for you. Should be very high on the list of priorities, but you do know what you are potentially signing up for. Maybe just arguing semantics here... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Like clockwork, Sim with the propaganda... Addition: No one is saying knives aren’t dangerous, and that they cannot be used to kill a police officer, but good job, way to add constructive words to the conversation... Also, just saying, a black dude in your video would have been shot much earlier than this white guy... Maybe he is a black guy, but it is grainy so I can’t tell. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think this whole thing with our homesteading friend is hilarious. Clearly demonstrates the sliding scale we use to “judge” others. Because you guys don’t agree with his perspective he labels you guys “liberals”. A label I believe you guys would reject if I’m not mistaken. And funny how “liberal” is pejorative now. I consider myself an open-minded conservative, but others here would label me a “liberal” as if it was some damning insult... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Just heard another fact about the police shooting in Philly. I gotta say I feel bad for the cops because dude was approaching them with a knife. Rock and a hard place. I still struggle to believe that shooting the guy was the only way to deal with the situation, but some of you “thin blue line” folks will say it was a legal kill... Point I wanted to make was that the cops are not equipped to deal with these situations. Guy’s family called for an ambulance because he has mental health problems. Police showed up and started demanding things and escalated/aggravated the situation. Why did the cops show up? Sincere question, do 911 operators hold any responsibility in this? Are they also sending police? Or do cops just hear it and show up? From what I can tell, dude did not have a knife until cops showed up and made things worse. Again, I feel for the cops here. Crappy situation... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

What? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Rallies aren’t a good example my friend. The fanatics are the ones that go to Trump rallies, so that’s not anymore enthusiasm than normal. I’ll eat crow if this comes out and is all verified. Like I said before, it wouldn’t surprise me, but everyone acting like Trump et al is biding his time to release these bombshells is ignoring the fact that Trump has never been able to sit patiently and wait. Don’t act like he listens to his people either because that isn’t true. Everyone claiming some vast media conspiracy sounds just a little tin foil hat, but whatever. Could all be very true. The counterpoints to those arguments have been made, I can’t make you believe them. As for the economy, Look at the numbers, economy was basically a wash between the questions of who did it better, and it is incredibly disingenuous of Trump to claim the greatest economy in our history. Clinton, Reagan and Johnson’s were better. Republicans/conservatives (myself included in a distant past) like to claim trickle down economics when things don’t go their way, but ignore it when they look good. By that logic, Obama turned the economy around after the recession and Trump continued to benefit from the Obama admin’s actions. I’m not saying that is, in fact, what happened, just pointing out more hypocrisy. Also, to say we’re on a trend towards economic recovery is ridiculous. Who’s doing better? Middle class? Nope, the poor? Nope. The rich? Yep, they’ve made a killing during the pandemic, and are continuing to do so. All while there are hundreds of thousands of households freaking out for when eviction moratoriums end. Let’s not ignore the 2nd and 3rd order effects of all the poor communities that didn’t have the money to continue college from home during quarantine, and how many generations that will take to recover. To say otherwise, would seem to intentionally ignore the facts. So, if your measuring stick is the rich, ok, yep, they’re better than ever... Sorry if that is disjointed. I’m in a rush... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/10/27/biden-becoming-president-not-make-everything-suddenly-normal-column/6042756002/ Screw both Trump and Biden. It’s up to us as individuals to stop treating the other side as if they were some kind of fully-functioning mentally challenged person simply because we disagree with their ideologies... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I would agree with that assessment, but here’s the better question: do you honestly think those that are still undecided will be swayed by what looks like a blatant attempt to sling mud and is seen as being questionable? I say it looks like an attempt to sling mud because with all of this “rock solid evidence” there sure is a whole lot of nothing being said by the people that matter. As of yesterday, even Trump is being quiet about it. I think they know it won’t sway anyone. Covid is what Trump and Biden are discussing... Oddly enough, Trump says his plan (anyone seen it?) will create a booming economy, and Covid is basically beat. If that’s not strictly talking to your base, I don’t know what is... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

So I'm just curious, what happens when the election comes and goes and no one ever substantiates any of this stuff? Not saying that will happen, but I think we can all agree this, or any administration in recent history isn't necessarily trustworthy. We're a week out, and everyone with all this proof, except for the super reputable sources quoted by torqued, are mum. And who knows, maybe they're going to drop all these bombshells. At this point, nothing is surprising... What are all of you die-hard Trumpeters going to say? Wait, I know, you'll say #fakenews... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think you should make your point pretty quick here... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Totally agree. They deserve equal rights 100%, but the second they go after religious institutions to force/bend them to their will that doesn't have anything to do with individual rights, especially with religious institutions that aren't trying to shove their beliefs down their throats, I'll help hold the line there. Do me the favor of not reading into other things here. I'm specifically talking about equal rights. After that, we're not on the same page. I have friends in that community, and I don't judge them even if I don't agree with them. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great, succint wrap-up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not sure if we're agreeing or not based on this scenario. Sorry. I'm advocating that we should treat them in the same way as straight couples. Maybe that wasn't clear before... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please, show me how I’m misinterpreting what you said, and therefore “educating” you... You seemed to take offense to something that wasn’t said, so I clarified because you and Guardian are definitely alike in your seeming love to “educate” people from some position of perceived superiority. Honestly, it was a compliment. I should have been more generous with the praise first. Often, guys like you and Guardian do a great job holding people to high standards. Occasionally, you seem to come from some invisible high horse and ignore what people have actually said in some perceived attempt at showing everyone just how brilliant you are. You’re doing it right now... Your passive aggressive comments like, “I can never tell if you are intentionally obtuse...” are perfect examples. Please, highlight my logical fallacies and unsupported hyperbole in the (acknowledged in my post) opinion above... To answer one of your criticisms: I liken it to hate (I think hate is fairly strong, and most people don’t truly hate[emoji2373] IMHO), never called it hate. My apologies for using the term “hate on” in this case. I think hating on something is different than hating something, but I don’t know a similar term thatto use that, as easily, gets the same idea across. I made my point about Christ because he never specifically tried to limit people’s actions. He educated, counseled, encouraged, but never forced anyone to obey him. I fail to see how laws limiting who someone is allowed to marry isn’t oppression. I also, from a religious perspective, don’t agree with the LGBTQ community, but until they try to come around and start hurting other people’s lives, I don’t think the government has any place imposing its will on them. Pence disagrees on the semantics of the word marriage? Fine, allow civil unions that hold equal rights as a religious marriage... Easy, peasy. Gay marriage is very different than second amendment or illegal immigration issues, so this is 100% an instance of you falsely correlating these things to try and slip your point across. Explain to me, outside of religious terms, how gay marriage infringes on the safety, or rights of others, or unfairly taxes straight people. I can show you how a stance against immigration or guns points to people’s safety and/or rights. I happen to be in favor of gun rights, but think the conversation needs to be had on how to stop mentally ill people from accessing them. I happen to be in favor of ending illegal immigration, but don’t agree that it should be as difficult or as expensive for people to naturalize. Pence could be an amazing member of whatever congregation he belongs to. I don’t think Pence is a bad person at all. I know lots of great members of my church. That doesn’t mean I want their rigidly unbending ideas on the world governing how I live my life... If you think liberals are the ones that hate Romney now, I suggest you drive up and down I-15 in UT where there are billboards wishing him to go away. Paid for by conservatives because he’s openly opposed Trump... Once again, I’m not trying to convince you to change your mind. Just showing where I perceive you’re being disingenuous. Notice the word perceive and perception. I use it a lot because I can never be sure I am fully understanding what people are saying on the WWW. Maybe I’m the one with reading comprehension issues, but that’s how your posts come across to me. The fact that baseops.net is an echo chamber for people who think similarly to you emboldens you to continue “educating” people. Keep calling me, or inferring that I’m a liberal. Doesn’t hurt my feelings. I feel like I’m in a tiny group of conservatives who sees this Admin for what it really is, a danger not only to our country, but the world. That’s two people (you and me) who think they’re each on the right side of an opinion. That’s all most of this is, an opinion... I wholeheartedly agree with you that all of this is incredibly beneficial dialogue, and it needs to continue. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Show me where Pence has done anything to change his opinion. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk