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Palace Chase info

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Question for the DD-214 worksheet on vMPF...
Block 6 states:  "Reserve Obligation Termination Date"
For us going to the AFRC, is this when our Palace Chase reserve obligation expires?  It seems straight forward, but when you click the little question mark next to it, it goes on about your MOS and DD 2-1-2 or something (I can't remember the form).  Any help?

AFAIK any reference to reserve obligation term date is interchangeable with the term MSO (mil svc obligation) which is 8 yrs total service which can be any combination of active and reserve. So in your case you take the date you were initially put into active service and add 8 yrs.


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I stupidly did the Post-9/11 GI Bill Transfer about a year ago, then 6 months ago my unicorn of a dream AGR job (same AFSC) unexpectedly opened up.  Applied and got the job.  Applied for PC on 1 May with a Jan 2020 DOS (2 years, 6 months before ADSC end).  My app is just now leaving for SAF (30 Jul).  Sq/CC & Wg/CC both recommended approval.  AFPC denied based on my being a Weapons Officer (ADSC will be complete prior to separation), an ABM (career field is undermanned but my ADSC was complete for that 5 years ago), and an instructor (ADSC complete 3 years ago).  Still trying to figure out how they can use qualifications for which you've already completed the ADSC against you, but hopefully the SAF board will see through that.  The Post-9/11 GI Bill Transfer is the only ADSC I'll have left at the DOS.  Am I missing some clause whereby your AFSC, instructor status, etc. can be indefinitely paired with another AFSC like the Post-9/11 GI Bill Transfer to keep you in?   I got it, I'm asking for 2 years and 6 months, but the VEB AFI makes it clear that the service on AGR status is equivalent.  The comment train on AFPC also mentions greater than 6 months being too long, but I don't see anywhere in the AFI that dictates that.  All I see is that you have to have completed 2/3 of your initial ADSC.
I'll post updates here, as I know I've drawn hope (and at times, despair) from those who have shared their stories here.


Bogey, similar situation for my PC approval albeit I asked for 15 months of GI Bill TEB ended up being 13 by the time I got approval and 2 months UPT. I had approvals at Sq and Wg level but disapproval’s at AFPC functional level for similar reasons as you. AFPC from what I’ve seen/heard is going with blanket disapproval’s for any ADSC over 6 months based on HAF/A3 guidance that no one can produce.

What was the AFPC Div Chief recommendation (last step before going to SAF PC)?

AFPC’s review is myopic in that they just look at active duty manning etc. and don’t consider the total force. That’s the job of the SAF PC board to look at Total Force implications. Being that GI TEB is transferable into the guard and if you hadn’t transferred or could revoke it (you can’t, I tried) you could do it again day one in the Guard I would hope if that is your only ADSC they’ll green light you.

Best of luck and let us know how it shakes out.


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On 7/26/2019 at 12:30 PM, Pretty_Darn_Good said:

Update on changing Separation date once approved for PC:

After talking with the hiring Guard unit to determine the earliest swearing-in date they could support (to prevent a break-in service) I had my ISR request that date which was approximately 2 1/2 weeks from my approval date.  AFPC denied the request and stated the earliest they could support was 30 days from approval.

I then e-mailed the AFPC Palace Chase Team (they are surprisingly responsive once you get approved, good luck getting any response while your awaiting adjudication) requesting inside 30 days.  The minimum 30 days is theoretically to benefit the member as to not jam them up with out-processing, TMO, medical, VA etc.  In my case I had already accomplished most of those items so I provided that justification and stated my out-going and incoming Commanders approved the earlier date and they granted the request for inside 30 days.

Good luck to all, standing by for any questions or if I can help guide anyone through the process.

Ok - so what was the process to change the date? 

I have final approval for March, but want to move it forward to May so kids can finish school and I can keep AD paycheck until I move. 

ISR says it’s super easy, but isn’t clear on process for officers. 

Thanks

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All I did was tell my ISR what I wanted my new date to be and he updated the 1288 and sent it to AFPC.  Didn't seem too cosmic.

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On 8/15/2019 at 4:14 PM, Pretty_Darn_Good said:

 


Bogey, similar situation for my PC approval albeit I asked for 15 months of GI Bill TEB ended up being 13 by the time I got approval and 2 months UPT. I had approvals at Sq and Wg level but disapproval’s at AFPC functional level for similar reasons as you. AFPC from what I’ve seen/heard is going with blanket disapproval’s for any ADSC over 6 months based on HAF/A3 guidance that no one can produce.

What was the AFPC Div Chief recommendation (last step before going to SAF PC)?

AFPC’s review is myopic in that they just look at active duty manning etc. and don’t consider the total force. That’s the job of the SAF PC board to look at Total Force implications. Being that GI TEB is transferable into the guard and if you hadn’t transferred or could revoke it (you can’t, I tried) you could do it again day one in the Guard I would hope if that is your only ADSC they’ll green light you.

Best of luck and let us know how it shakes out.


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Thanks for the data...13 months is the best I've heard of and it gives me a bit of hope.  AFPC Div Chief recommendation for denial was the standard "In line w/ HAF/A3 guidance..."  Hoping the needs of the Guard get sufficient weight on the board.  Thanks again!

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Congrats! Interesting that you had disapproval’s, I thought inside of 6 was a sure thing. 
I'm at an FTU and had a Wing CC at the time that blanket disapproved PC apps. AFPC took that to mean me departing would hurt pilot production even though my unit is technically overmanned. Basically one Wg/CC influenced the whole chain. Either way, good to know SAF/PC truly cares about your impact to the Total Force and made the right decision here (I may be a little biased).

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I took PTDY according to Rule 2 of the table in the leave AFI. The wording is weird because it doesn’t seem to address a member who is Palace Chasing. But if someone who is being involuntarily separated “for cause” can get PTDY, I figured I was entitled. I took some for house hunting, then added the additional to my terminal leave.

You can also take up to 7 days each time you travel to interview with a guard/reserve unit. That is spelled out in the PC AFI.


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On 10/8/2019 at 7:45 PM, MooseAg03 said:

I took PTDY according to Rule 2 of the table in the leave AFI. The wording is weird because it doesn’t seem to address a member who is Palace Chasing. But if someone who is being involuntarily separated “for cause” can get PTDY, I figured I was entitled. I took some for house hunting, then added the additional to my terminal leave.

You can also take up to 7 days each time you travel to interview with a guard/reserve unit. That is spelled out in the PC AFI.


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Hey MooseAg03, do you have a reference for this?  I was denied “house hunting” by my commander, but I’ve heard of several guys using the 20 days that’s sighted in Rule 2.  Didn’t know if you had a good reference I could use to get that time?
 

Also, I’m able to palace front on 30 Jul 20, and I have a PC package in for 3 Feb 20, which is currently at SAF after my functional recommended disapproval.  I’m already closing on a house near my guard unit Next month and want to move my family up then.  Obviously I won’t have approval or orders by then to start the TMO process.  Since I’m within a year from actual separation and served more than 8 years, can I move them now without orders or PC approval?  How do I start that process?  

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Hey MooseAg03, do you have a reference for this?  I was denied “house hunting” by my commander, but I’ve heard of several guys using the 20 days that’s sighted in Rule 2.  Didn’t know if you had a good reference I could use to get that time?
 
Also, I’m able to palace front on 30 Jul 20, and I have a PC package in for 3 Feb 20, which is currently at SAF after my functional recommended disapproval.  I’m already closing on a house near my guard unit Next month and want to move my family up then.  Obviously I won’t have approval or orders by then to start the TMO process.  Since I’m within a year from actual separation and served more than 8 years, can I move them now without orders or PC approval?  How do I start that process?  
For the PCS, I see a potential Catch 22. TMO has to have orders, to have orders you have to have a DOS. You cant establish a DOS because you have a PC app in. So, my guess would be no without some serious reg digging.

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Hey MooseAg03, do you have a reference for this?  I was denied “house hunting” by my commander, but I’ve heard of several guys using the 20 days that’s sighted in Rule 2.  Didn’t know if you had a good reference I could use to get that time?
 
Also, I’m able to palace front on 30 Jul 20, and I have a PC package in for 3 Feb 20, which is currently at SAF after my functional recommended disapproval.  I’m already closing on a house near my guard unit Next month and want to move my family up then.  Obviously I won’t have approval or orders by then to start the TMO process.  Since I’m within a year from actual separation and served more than 8 years, can I move them now without orders or PC approval?  How do I start that process?  

The only reg I cited was the leave reg. Both Finance and my SQ/CC had no issue with me using the 20 days. I think it’s kind of a norm like how you are given your house hunting after signing in while PCSing even if you have a place already (happened at every base I was stationed).

As for the moving early, that would be on your dime completely. TMO won’t do anything without orders, and even weight tickets that pre-date your briefing won’t be paid. If there’s family close by you could move just them with bare essentials to stay with family until you can get HHGs shipped. We paid double mortgage for a month because we had to close prior to being able to move. The house sat empty for 5 weeks before we moved in.


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I'm considering "rolling the dice" and asking for 12 months off my UPT ADSC. I've heard some examples of folks asking for 12 months off their UPT ADSC and the response they receive is "No, but we'll give you 6 months off..." I know that many have tried this and been denied, but I'm just curious if there is anything I'm not considering that could be harmful by attempting this. Bottom line, what do I actually have to lose? 

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11F, WIC Instructor, trying to PC 10 months off my GI Bill Transfer ADSC and 8 months off my UPT ADSC (I transferred my GI bill late to my wife which is why my GI Bill Transfer ADSC is 2 months after my UPT ADSC). 

I got approvals from Squadron and WG leadership. Found out today my request was disapproved by my functional. Apparently now it goes to SAFPC for their approval/denial? 

I've heard anything greater than 6 months gets denied. Thought I'd try for 10 anyway and see what happens.....We'll see if SAFPC approves it miraculously. Hoping they will atleast give me a "No, but you're approved for 6 months". 

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Well, miracles do happen.  SAF/PC denied my request to transfer 30 months of my ADSC for transfer of GI Bill benefits, but they counter-offered 24 months approval.  Luckily my hiring unit is awesome and is willing to wait the extra 6 months for me.  Had Sq/CC and Wg/CC support from the start, and was hired into an AGR billet at a "deployed-in-place" unit with a 24/7 mission, all of which helped my case (or so I assume).  From the time I clicked the button to the time I was notified of approval was 210 days!  Best part is that nearly 4 months of that time was AFPC waiting to realize that it was going to auto apply their "6 month rule" and deny.

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According to my in-service recruiter, AD is something like 13K above end strength and AFRC is apparently lower than they were expecting for numbers.  She said there is a new found push for palace chase approvals. Can anyone confirm or deny this?  Also, how does the whole pilot crisis factor in?  FWIW I'm an AETC IP...are they going to laugh at me when I submit a 12-month request?

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I submitted mine recently and asked for 6 months, all approvals so far, so I’m fairly optimistic that I’ll be good to go and will find out soon.. however I heard the same thing and wish I had asked for an extra 2-3 months off..

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UPT IP

was told today WG/CC will recommend disapprove 6 months PC packet. 
 

what happens after that? Does it still route up to AFPC?

secondly....hot for a 6 month deployment this June- December. UPT ADSC is expired this December. 

can I 7 day opt that? Other options?

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UPT IP
was told today WG/CC will recommend disapprove 6 months PC packet. 
 
what happens after that? Does it still route up to AFPC?



Yes, I believe I have similar panic posts earlier in this thread. I had recommend disapproval all the way up the chain and still got approved by SAF/PC. No need to panic... yet.

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Re: 13K over end strength. Last numbers I saw were at the end of FY19 citing our end of FY18 stats. So this data’s a year old, but it showed that the total force is short roughly 2K pilots out of a required 21K. If you exclude the ARC and look just at AD, we were apparently 1.8K short on CGOs and 1K over on FGOs for a total of 807 AD pilots short. Not sure I believe those numbers, but that’s what’s on the slide. Obviously that also implies that the ARC is about 1.2K shy.

Bashi, same thing here as above. The last PC app we sent up got disapprovals all the way up to the PC office, and still ultimately got approved for 6 months off. I think your odds are still good.

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And if we’re talking about overall AD end strength and not just pilot manning, the numbers on RAW show us about 1K below what’s authorized in the FY19 NDAA

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UPT IP

was told today WG/CC will recommend disapprove 6 months PC packet. 

 

what happens after that? Does it still route up to AFPC?

secondly....hot for a 6 month deployment this June- December. UPT ADSC is expired this December. 

 

can I 7 day opt that? Other options?

You can’t 7 day opt a 180. However, having a PC application already pending may deflect it to someone else in the Ops Group. In the MAF, the 180s were handed down by the OG. If you get approved while on said deployment, they would have to task someone else.

 

AFI 36-3205 has a restriction against sending applicants TDY without coordinating with AFPC/DPSOS (1.4.13), however it does not apply to aircrew members. I’m not sure if that would include 180 day ground deployments. My belief is that is to allow a crew member to be sent on short term missions while awaiting application (makes sense). However, you can bet someone will use that to their advantage and still try to send you on a deployment.

 

 

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great info thanks!

can i set an official date of seperation (end of my ADSC this december)? Would that even do anything?

not against deploying, but def against deploying for a non flying gig to be a power point useless ranger.

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