hindsight2020

Froggy? Probation? LOL. Try the last trip of IOE. Seen it happen twice. And not just any ol' "31+" MLOA... no no, actual effin' Title 10 3-year EAD (AGR) orders. ...and that's why we can't have nice things.

I did it as a trougher during my days as TR, and I didn't have a civilian job (hence, the term trougher). Bank required LES and tax returns for prior years. I got approved. The moniker TR/DSG may be technically true, but I didn't consider myself a "TR" when I was working as much as a full timer and with no civilian job, for cents of the dollar of course, which is why I left that unit after years of empty promises for one who would offer me employment parity (AGR in my case, and I never looked back). But I digress. So yes, it's possible.

No comment on the money. That's your business how you run your personal finances. As to the ART, can't believe they're still peddling that crap over an AGR, especially in this hiring environment. 307th clownshow standard. I see not much has changed since I left that dumpster fire.

That's a bit broad brushed. I was also willing to not enlist, go become a proverbial dentist, buy into a Meridian partnership on the side and move on with my life, if I didn't get a mil pilot slot. There are alternative avenues to get to fly, even if not for a living or for the military.

For the record, I got no dog in your fight, I'm just an AFRC heckler passing by with too many memes and not enough targets. 😄

Damn someone leaked pawnman's PRF sitdown debrief with the boss.... too soon? 😁

Well.... f*ck. It was a good run boys. 😆

Fresno Guard. Standard. At least it wasn't embezzlement this time....

Airline guys who are paying attention always understood the Guard/Reserve job as an insurance policy, not extra cash. The issue today is that the value of that insurance diminishes in some of their eyes when they believe the airline environment to be so recession-proof that they don't need the paycut in the Guard/Res. And I'm talking about the guys without 20 year letters. History says they're wrong, but the merits of the mandatory retirements are also a different dynamic than the circumstances that created the Lost Decade. Of course there's also the juniority reprieve most use the mildrop/milleave for, civilian-only historical resentment and bad press about that little item notwithstanding. All that said, I concur, at some point the BS becomes so lifestyle-altering for the family that it truly is worth risking a furlough open vest. It truly has become that bad, and I say that as a mil full-timer with no particular desire to go airlines at this stage in my life.

I loves me my ejection seat carve out. G'luck with the Army cosplay peddling , it's noble work y'all doing out there. 🖕😄🖕

well, I guess we'll see how much people are willing to do for the sake of "getting to fly a fighter". My guess is the BTDT crowd will punch to the IMA/Cat-E world, since there's really nowhere left to 1288 to in order to avoid the combat desk non-vol these days, save for AGR status which currently only individually mobilizes under the very *bottom rung of the pyramid posted above. Frankly *that's only reason I'm still around in the capacity I am, instead of cutting stab trims in some guppy POS for 15% B-fund and more TAFB-and-family than I bargained for in this fickle so-called vocational choice. I suppose those TSPs look better now by comparison. Maybe. Messed up thing is it is my understanding you can't even dwell out of an invol IA by participating in those. Double stuffing. But don't quote me on that one wrt the Guard side, I only know about the AFRC side. Honestly, the non-dwell bit would be the thing that would make me punt at the job on the spot, even if I didn't have a 20 year letter; I don't care if they're letting me fly the Space Shuttle for the trouble. That would be a bridge too far to me.

Due to the close proximity I've had to endure with AD due to the TFI boondoggle, AD leadership always left me with the distinct impression they always found the Guard/Reserve the organic answer to what you're asking about. One OG pretty much said it in mixed company on a step bus: "we already have the technician track...it's called the Guard/Reserve". Can't say I was surprised to hear that from him, but I suppose I appreciated his honesty in the way he felt, especially in mixed company. To be fair to the guy, that's how we've been manning my last two squadrons. Hordes of carbon copy twice passed over O-4s with airline hopes, zero intentions of doing leadership/management work, and varying levels of interest in attaining an AD retirement in the Reserves. Only problem with that trend has been an increasing willingness on the part of the gallery to accept the AD lifestyle encroachment into the Reserves, but that's more relevant to a "what's wrong with the Air Force Reserves" thread. I digress. In short, no I really don't think the AD AF is legitimately interested in addressing your grievance. They may still not acknowledge it as one in the first place, even in this environment. They're certainly not going to address it with soft pay (aka non-monetary QOL incentives). That's anathema to the Active Duty Social Contract (ADSC for short lol). Massa never barters with his human property, as a matter of principle. This is like a commuting vs living in domicile question to me. Might as well be talking about two entirely different jobs. Are you an officer that happens to be a pilot as your retention shtick, or are you a pilot who happens to be an officer as your retention shtick? If the former, yeah 20 years potato. If the latter, perhaps this is ultimately a 10/10 hi-lo mix career of full time and part time work after all. To each their own.

volunteering...

I just can't reconcile how that language is being proffered in 2019. The turnover rate is gonna go to 11. The entire premise of even entertaining the Strategic Reserve model was predicated on enough baked-in experience not to worry about the chilling effect a "greening demographic" would have on spin ups. Under this paradigm, the Reserves become driven by R-ATP applicants only (aka don't have a better option at the moment), and if they don't mort themselves in training and/or drive the class-A rates to Pluto, they get to pass GO, collect $200, mainline number and at year 2 they punch from the mil cold turkey. The ART cadre gets burnt out, tightens the spiral. UFB.

Werd. That ^^^^ part will certainly be an interesting dynamic. That historical house slave trade they had with the ARTs was always predicated on letting those pigeons stay grounded and close to the house. Nobody gives themselves that much of a retirement and FAE paycut unless homesteading is the end all be all. Now you de facto invol mob them by virtue of lack of TR manning and yeah, you're about to see some reaaaallly penny wise pounds foolish outcomes on the day to day management front. I've already seen some ART lifer folks (lost decade types) who swore up and down they'd never utter the dreaded A word ever again in their lives, and they're already ballin' it up at big D et al. AFRC has absolutely gone tone deaf. And as I've mentioned before, we have TRs without 20 year letters leaving service with 10+ years of AD points on the table, cold turkey. It's complete willy wonka factory up in here. The whole place has jumped the shark lol.

who made you mod homey? Lady indeed doth protest too much. I smell management sycophant.

Nah don't be so self-deprecating, this is BODN, we're all qualified to comment! 😄

Hell, you just described my short tenure in the CAF (we called it CBP but it's the same shit), and the morale crush that lead up to 2007, and we all know what happened then. Now granted, I was an interloper in that community since day one (had zero intention of flying heavies any longer than necessary) but still, that make-work shit was also antagonizing the lifers too. I didn't join the flying vocation because I wanted to fly airliners, so the opportunity costs of stay/go were not the same for me. That said, it is certainly tough to reconcile this daily hassle when cats with my flying resume are getting paid $138/credit-hr second year plus B-fund and not getting sweat about pee tests, PME finger wagging, dealing with the "what are you stealing from me today?" patronizing environment wrt participation requirements and daily schedules (aka BONA FIDE Active Duty), let alone special bad deal projects like these TSP/CBP or worse, invol IA make-work pedestrian deployments. Thing is, it doesn't appear to me that they have any intention on giving an inch in the manner in which they go about these taskers. And I'll be honest, if we can't get traction on these QOL issues in THIS civilian hiring environment, then seriously, wtf are we even doing discussing this. It appears as though there's enough Reservists out there who are content with their lot, if Wings seem to be able to continue to peddle green manning slides to the Command in the midst of these taskers. I suppose I can see the fighter guys eating bad deals to "still get to fly a fighter". I certainly had zero intention of behaving the same when I was fighting perennial vocational-narcolepsy at the helm of a bomber or nuke vault. I can't speak for the MAF guys but I figure the dynamics would be similar, especially with airline job in hand. To each their own, but I don't see things getting better, if they haven't done so already in present hiring.

Considering their recent pullout from New York when they got taken to task about their anti-labor pre-reqs, I'd wager to guess you're right about and airline pilots labor groups' fate under their rule.

Not trying to be snarky, and I'm not dialed in on the specifics of compensation at the ACMIs, but isn't the above a distinction without difference? They're not exactly paying FDX rates, retirement and work rules in the least, so why would Amazon proper running the slave ship be any different? Not defending Amazon's terrible labor practices, just playing devil's advocate.

The mil gig kept people alive during the rough times, but it's a different ARC than it was 15-20 years ago. A lot of the dudes who had their bacon saved when they were furloughed after 9/11 were from the good old days when the Guard and Reserves were a flying club and we only went to places like Guam, Pisa, Cypress, Curacao.... you know, the real "rough" ones. Those were the times you could have fun and get a little stupid without it ending up on FaceBook a day later because one of your brown-nosing unit mates wanted to play buddyf#cker. Those were the days when straw after straw after straw breaking the camel's back didn't exist. Most of those dudes have since retired. Those are the ones, some of them at least, who managed to walk away with an AD retirement, an ART retirement AAAAAAAAAAAND walked right back into decent seniority and a $200,000 per year job. I know at least a half dozen guys like this from the lost decade who did very well for themselves while guys like me waited for a full time job at the unit. Timing is everything. I am in "ghost mode" now. I go to the unit a few times a month, get my shit done to stay off the bad boy lists, but for the most part, I try to spend very little time there. I think it's a case of senioritis, but with first year pay at $90+ an hour these days, fortunately I don't need the extra cash... just a few more good year's worth of points. Agreed on all counts, and as a junior guy during the lost decade myself, you're preaching to the choir wrt the double retirement furlough gomers getting to have their cake and eat it too. I was just reminding the gallery these things go in cycles is all.

Those are not real blondes. Break break--- I think its clear southwest is the pack leader when it comes to MLOA friendly ops. Some of the stuff I've been recently made privy to is straight up burger king. Good on 'em. Also, I personally love the insta switch from some airline guys the second they make a nickle more per credit hour than their mil gig. To quote an old ART buddy of mine : "you know, for the best job in the world, these mother----- sure spend a lot of time hiding here.." . I think peter gave Jesus a better treatment than some of these guys do their squadron pay people the day after that 2nd year longevity pay anniversary lol. I still remember the lost decade, so I'm naturally inclinded not to ballwalk around a job that kept people paid during a trough, but to each their own.

what a dumpster fire.

too soon?