ANG VS. RESERVES

[Guest peterson64]

What's the major differences between the ANG and the Reserves. I understand that the guard is owned by the state, but at the pilot level, what diferences are there?

Thanks in advance

[Guest navobd]

At the pilot level, relatively the same. Transparent (for the most part).

[Guest peterson64]

Is there a difference with how often there activated? or duration. What about TDY oportunities?

Do they recruit pilots in the same manner?

[Carpetbagger]

I apologize in advance for the lengthy post, but I hope I can answer a few of your questions, anyone else please chime in. Most Guard units have one hiring board for pilots per year. Reserve units have flying boards in March and September, and your application package is sent before a central board to determine if you are qualified (i.e., a given unit may put your name up and sponsor you for consideration, but if you aren't qualified compared to the others being evaluatd, your unit may be told to select someone from the list who is qualified but not sponsored by another unit or resubmit your application at the next board. Other than that, the hiring and recruiting process is very similar. After being selected, AFRC goes to USAF OTS (12 weeks) at Maxwell AFB and ANG goes to Academy of Military Science (6 weeks) in Knoxville, TN. Then its off to UPT with all of your active duty counterparts, and the rest is history. As far as activation goes, that is pretty unit specific, depending on mission capabilities. Most units, both AFRC and ANG will rotate crews in and out of the AOR (battlefield) to keep TDY days manageable for civlian employers (i.e., 2 units will each send 2 aircraft to the AOR and rotate 4 crews per month for the duration of the deployment). Most of the heavies, herks, and tankers have no trouble keeping their crews fed and paid.

[Guest peterson64]

differences btwn AGR and Active reserves? Do they both get the flight bonus?

[Carpetbagger]

What bonus? The $25,000 ACP? AGR is considered Active Duty and is subject to the same pay and allowances. Traditional reservists get partial ACIP but not ACP or Aviation Retention Bonus according to the most recent regulation I've seen. I am still to many years away from the 12 year requirement to care much about the bonus. Someone with more experience than I may be able to shed a different light on the subject. You can access the regs for yourself for any clarification http://www.dod.mil/comptroller/fmr/07a/07A20.pdf We are still trying to get a full month's flight pay for maintaining the same flying qualifications and standards as our active duty counterparts.

[Guest C5Drvr]

You can spend an entire career at one ANG base if you truly wanted to, provided it doesn't get shut down or moved. And when I talk about a career, I mean all the way to becoming a General in some cases. Not so in the reserves. There are those that do stay in one place, but the reserves try to get senior leadership to move to promote. Also, don't expect an AGR position right out of pilot training. Depending on the weapon system you fly you may only get 45 days of continuous training to get mission qualified before you are back to being a "traditional bum". Your one weekend a month, two weeks a year kinda of employee. But an AGR position in a good guard unit is one of the best kept secrets in the military.

[Carpetbagger]

AFRC and ANG get essentially the same number of UTA's (48) and FTP's (48), aka 96 days of pay a year plus the 2 weeks of annual tour. C5 is correct in saying that your airframe as well as availability of funds determines any "45-90 day seasoning" you get at your unit after becoming qualified in the airplane. Not really a guard versus reserve issue though. Both AFRC and ANG units have AGR and ART (civilian in uniform) positions in similar numbers. The "one weekend a month, two weeks a year" doesn't apply to any flying position that I know of. I have served in both the Guard and Reserve, and the differences are minor. 0-6 and 0-7 positions in both groups often require moving to obtain a command (I've seen both). This is due to the limited number of positions at that level. After one has decided to fly for either reserve force, the real questions one needs to ask are: 1) am I looking for a full time position, 2) do I have a desire to fly a particular type of aircraft, 3) where do I want to live, 4) do I want ease of transferability because of my civilian job. Few units give AGR or ART positions to new pilots. There are a few developmental positions called "baby ART" jobs that are hard to come by, but great if you get one. Getting paid is a big question. I'm sure that C5 and other heavy drivers have an abundance of man-days and activation opportunities to keep bums paid (the AFRC C-17s, C-5s, and KC-10s aren't suffering from lack of paychecks right now). Other units, such as fighters, may not have many additional paydays available. As far as transferability, I found that it is a little easier to transfer within a major command like AFRC, but my transition from Guard to Reserve went pretty smooth as well, so not really a limiting factor. Good luck in your choice. PM if you have any other questions.

[Guest x-wing]

a few questions

So being pilot in the reserves is pretty much full time?

How often do pilots in the reserves get to fly?

what additional duties do they have?

[Guest AirGuardian]

"So being pilot in the reserves is pretty much full time?"

Once again, depends upon the type of aircraft your flying? One can stay quite busy in the Reserves or Guard at a Heavy unit flying a couple of trips a month and accomplishing your normal training days/weekend duty/and 2 weeks a year, etc.

***Can't really consider it full time since there are no healthcare benefits included as a traditional unless you go beyond a 30 day TDY/tour.

"How often do pilots in the reserves get to fly?"

Speaking for the Guard and the Reserves are basically the same regarding the Heavies. Each unit is allocated a flying hour program. They essentially maximize their days of flying missions and training flights. Since the Airlift community is the money-maker, you can bet they get the most flying opportunities on a normal basis. Fighter, Tanker, Airlift, Helo, whatever - for most units, you can certainly have more flying than most of the AD for career longevity sake. Our guys without activation range from 200 to as high as 750 for some! Plenty of Majors/Lt Cols flying the line for the most part. Of course, your position and unit manning helps or slows you down depending on they're stacked at the unit.

"what additional duties do they have?"

Pretty much the same as the AD folks, but for the Guard units alot of them surround state functions, etc. Basically our normal add-ons are scheduling, LZSO, training, awards/decs, fund raisers, safety, etc. But, we try to keep it more real since our manning really doesn't just lay around the house/unit when they're off since most have other jobs anyway...

Once again this is basically the same answers for the Guard and Reserves, unless you are at a specialized unit!

[ 04. January 2005, 23:53: Message edited by: AirGuardian ]

[Champ Kind]

7.5 year thread revival!

Some of the buzz I have been hearing is that AFRC has been turning into AD-light with regard to queep like BS inspections, additional duties, etc.

I'm sure it depends on your particular unit, but would anyone like to comment on the current institutional differences between transitioning from active duty to the Guard or Reserves.

[Marco]

Don't expect the AD-Lite flavor to be strictly a Reserves phenomenon. YMMV, but it is creeping into the State-funded Flying Clubs as well.

[Azimuth]

7.5 year thread revival!

Some of the buzz I have been hearing is that AFRC has been turning into AD-light with regard to queep like BS inspections, additional duties, etc.

I'm sure it depends on your particular unit, but would anyone like to comment on the current institutional differences between transitioning from active duty to the Guard or Reserves.

The AFRC unit that teach along side of my AD Sq (FTU) go through the same training, have some (not all) of the same queep that we do. The difference is they are all GS-10 or GS-13's making a lot of more money than we are, minus their civilian health care they have to pay for.

[moosepileit]

AFRC Air Reserve Technicians (ARTs) are growing some of the move up or move out pressures from active duty. You won't PCS as much as active duty, but you will sign on the line that you are willing to relocate.

GS-10 is about Capt pay, GS-13 is NOT LtCol flyer's pay parity or even later Major. You are on step increases with locality rates, not BAH, some areas have better balance than others pay-wise.

You will work full time, then work your Reserve job. Chance for more income, but lots less time off. If you cherish your weekends when not TDY, AFRC would be a real change for a full-time job.

Unless Azimuth is a mid-grade captain, I don't think he's talking effective dollars per hour. If he's speaking to a 22-28 year LtCol that is about to convert his points to an active duty retirement, he'll get a much different flavor from a flyer that has 2500 points and hasn't found MWS flying orders in two years for any length of time, despite his/her willingness to serve

This is where you need to break out your LES and calendars and logbooks, then compare your goals, looking forward and back.

The Reserves can give access to lots of work. I've seen that drastically reduce in the years of CRAs and drawdowns from OIF and OEF.

The discussion would contain many unknowns when it looks forward and looking back is only good for war stories over beers.

My angle is that we may see a decrease in flying that keeps pace with the loss of those reaching their mandatory retirement service years. From here on out those converting to an active duty retirement from their Reserve points will be the rare exception.

There really is no "average" Reservist or "average" active duty flyer. A busy reservist can fly 2x what a active duty flyer logs. I've logged almost 500 annual flying hours as a Reservist, did not break 350 on active duty, even when timing out in 30 days in OIF stages. YMWV

Maybe AGR will make a come back, I doubt it for the Reserves in a tight economy.

Been at it since 2007 in AFRC, been traditional and a Technician, both are on the slide. I won't attempt to speak for the ANG. I will say that many flyer slots in the ANG are based on Majors/O-4. AFRC slots are typically LtCol/O-5, with a 28 year retirement point.

[hindsight2020]

It's all AD Lite bra'. Bunch of elated MasterDegree-less O-5s running around mulling over the timing of their departure from what they all collectively agree is the death of a good deal. Real motivating for a mid level Captain being punked into focusing on AAD and PME, as a Reservist mind you.

Career advice? Go do something lucrative as a civilian and do this shit for fun until it stops being fun due to the overarching emphasis on Active Duty promotion discriminators. Timing is everything in this business. I wouldn't waste the better part of a decade vesting yourself to a machine that's so in flux right now. Consolidation is the name of the game IMO from here on out, the bodies they staff the new AFRES with will be much more servant and bought into the AD mindset. Current leadrship at the squadon level has for the most part folded like a cheap suit. Nobody has the balls to tell the incoming waves of RIF active duty minions to leave that bullshit at the door. You can thank direct AD-to-AGR for that too. But nobody has the nads to say it at the wing level. And no way I'd do this shit again as a Guard/Reserve baby. They fuckin Judased the social contract with the babies. All that for a part-time check? Fuck that, you can have it.

I caught the tail end of the good ol days back in 06/07. The place is nothing like it was in the pre-TFI days. Everything went to hell, from the RPA money allocation to the flying hours to the TDYs to the training quality. I don't know how the Guard has fared on that regard; their eternal money problems are noted. This shit ain't what it used to, and I'm a froggin Capt for Christ sake.

But, if you're some dude with a regional line number, sure, I guess it beats THAT nut punch 4 days out of the week, which is all the work they'll give you at the squadron in a row to avoid paying ya benefits and leave. Flying is neato though right?

Edited July 31, 2012 by hindsight2020

[Van1]

Nobody has the balls to tell the incoming waves of RIF active duty minions to leave that bullshit at the door.

Not sure it's fair to blame your woes on RIF'd AD folks like me. Nobody had to ask me to leave the BS behind when I was involuntarily separated from AD and signed on with the Guard. I did that on my own and it felt good. And I'm willing to bet that 99% of folks who have recently been RIF'd from AD and been hired into the Guard or Reserves feel the same way.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Van1

[Danny Noonin]

Nobody has the balls to tell the incoming waves of RIF active duty minions to leave that bullshit at the door.

While you're blaming everyone for you're misery, you are seriously saying that a few O-3 FNGs have somehow managed to be so influential in your squadron that they are taking over and no one has the balls to stand up to them? Really?

Ever think that maybe the problem is you?

[hindsight2020]

Fine, fine, just raising a little hell is all. :D

Vaginitis aside, shit has changed for the worse. To each their own to determine their tolerance for it. I've seen what the old dudes got away with and the quality of flying and TDY they enjoyed. I don't necessarily intend on replicating their "careers" but the qweep that is being pushed forth as normalcy is above and beyond retarded. Not in a "well, we had different sort of problems back then" kind of way, but in a "fwwwok, we didn't HAVE this problem back then" kind of way. They changed the cartoons mid-episode, that's all. Some of us feel just because we're "young" doesn't mean we gotta be so goddamn stoic.

And sure, I totally accept being labeled the problem for not embracing a palpable decrease in every measurable quantifier of workplace satisfaction in a submissive manner, when my masterless DUI holding O-5 forerunners didn't. I got no problem with that adjudication.

I got no beef with the RIF dudes, I was just injecting that middle management leadership and above has no vested interest in keeping up with the proper education and preservation of the Reserve ways, because perhaps as y'all point out, it has been outdated and they are looking at finishing up those 20 quietly. Perhaps even at my "young" age, it has outdated me as well (having been raised in the old culture, just barely). No doubt exit stage is coming to some of us sooner than others.

Edited August 1, 2012 by hindsight2020

[Guest]

This makes me laugh out loud.

[HeyWatchThis]

GS-10 is about Capt pay, GS-13 is NOT LtCol flyer's pay parity or even later Major. You are on step increases with locality rates, not BAH, some areas have better balance than others pay-wise.

Say what?.........

I was just hired in at a stepped 12 and it's BARELY hitting my 1Lt pay........Capt pay took a GS-13 at least......

[moosepileit]

Thanks, you made my point. I tried to keep steps out of it. The pay O. vs E and A.D. vs ART is not well balanced. Then others assume you will make up the $ with mil duty. Time off is valuable.

Edited August 6, 2012 by moosepileit