Masters information (MBA/GRE)

[Guest evil load]

Looking for recommendations on schools that have masters programs for people who are tdy alot. Looking for something like Aviation Safety or Management. I guess it would have to be an on-line program or correspondence at best.

[Toro]

Concur with Embry Riddle. I've taken four or five classes in residence and am taking one right now on line. Couple advantages for you-

1) They offer tuition reimbursement. For a $690 course, I only end up paying about $169. In addition to that, there are several scholarships you can apply for to pay for the remaining portion of the bill and books.

2) You've got a while to finish it. Obviously things may get busy while you're running around TDY and trying to get things done. I've had to drop two classes already, but should be done far before their deadline of (I believe) seven years.

3) They're all over the place. They've got offices at just about base on the planet. At my last class, the teacher was talking about organizing a class at Al Udeid for guys deployed to OIF and OEF.

4) Their courses are also offered online. Not my preference, but if you're having trouble attending the courses in residence, or know you're going to be TDY for a while and have access to a computer, this is a good option.

[ 19 January 2004, 23:22: Message edited by: Toro ]

[ClearedHot]

Additionally, make sure it is an accredited degree. I have a friend who decided to get a Masters in theology. Turns out it was not accredited or recognized by the USAF and he was passed over for O5.

Madmax is dead on when he said get it early, besides the USAF is paying 75% of it for you. It is a pain in the arse, but do it if you have even the smallest inclination of staying in.

[M2]

C17

I got my Masters in Information Systems through UMUC, but be aware that my degree actually came from Bowie State University (which is a historically black college, so I thought that was pretty cool! ). It took me almost seven years and three assignments to finish (’cause I was too lazy or too busy, nothing their fault), but when I got back to Europe the advisor was extremely helpful in helping me complete the program. I had to bust ass due to the time constraints, then OIF kicked off and things got really bad, but I got it done.

UMUC is not the same thing as University of Maryland, and I have heard rumors (and let me emphasize that they are that rumors) that if you wanted to go to College Park after taking classes through UMUC it is like transferring from any other school...e.g, only a limited number of credits transfer over. However, like many topics on this forum, I strongly advise you go talk to the folks at your education office and local UMUC rep. They are a good program and the best thing is once you get about 1/3 of your classes completed, you can complete the program via DE or 1-v-1 programs. In other words, if you want to finish, they will find a way!

Cheers! M2

[Mitch Weaver]

Remember 100% really means no more than $250 per credit/$750 max per class and $4500 max annually.

[Shut up 'n color]

sounds like some good advice going on here. So the general consensus is that the AF will pay, and it doesnt' have to do with your AFSC. Now, if i'm a pilot, then when i decide to go for my masters, will i take time off from flying and just attend classes....or fly and go to night classes??

[Toro]

Unless you go to AFIT, you'll have to work the Master's schedule around your flying schedule - mainly meaning you'll have to take night or online classes. For the most part, guys don't have a problem being taken off the schedule after 1700 if they're going to night classes.

[Spartacus]

Sorry to bring this thread back but I had a couple of questions:

1. So you have to get your masters online, or from a school that is close to where you are stationed?

2. The AF pays 100% for the degree and for any prerequisite classes that you might need for the degree?

3. If you want will the AF pay for a masters and a PhD? I know that there are some Generals out there with PhD's so how did they do it?

4. I know that there are some prereq classes that I want to take that have some pretty intense labs and etc. What if these are only offered during the day? Are you screwed or can you work out a deal where you can go to those labs and classes and then go into the SQ and work later?

[M2]

Jetjock

1. Either or, just as long as you have access and it is an accredited institution.

2. The AF pays 100% tuition assistance with an annual cap, books are on your dime.

3. The AF will pay for a doctorate after a grad degree, but you will owe them time for both. I would suspect most doctorates are done on a fulltime basis, I have a bud at RPI in NY getting his doctorate at the moment.

4. Mission dependent, but most organizations will allow you to take time off from work for classes. But remember your education is secondary to the mission!

Bottom line: You can get advanced degrees and get the AF to pay for them. It is all a matter of how much you are willing to work!

Cheers! M2

[Guest doggs_64]

Young Captain-type, flyer, looking to get a Masters. Is Embry-Riddle a good route, or will it be worthless later on. I don't plan on staying in the AF (at least for now). Any pros/cons/comments welcome. Thanks.

[Baseops.Net]

If you really think you might be getting out - you may not want to waste your time on one of these Masters Degrees.

If you choose to get Financial Aid, don't forget about the added Active Duty Service Committment (ADSC)...

If you think you will be getting out and going to the airlines - you don't need this Masters.

If you think you will be getting out and going to a non-flying corporate job (e.g. Management in some company) - this type of Masters will do nothing for you -- I talked to several well known military head-hunters and they echoed this -- a degree from a top-tier school means a lot, a degree like this will not mean much of anything.

The only real reason to get it done is for the person that is going to stay in and has concern over getting promoted beyond Major.

[Batman]

I enjoyed getting my Masters from Embry-Riddle because of the course topics.

I went into the program for its convenience and square-filling, but then really liked the learning experience and the fact that I could apply it right now. Topics I found worthwhile included CRM techniques/lessons learned, physiology and human behavior, automation and its affects on today's flight crew workload, airline history (what airlines are more profitable and why?), space exploration (Mars, Shuttle program, Mir), and accident investigations.

Batman

[LockheedFix]

Any truth to the rumor that a pilot rating and/or commercial license counts for some credit toward some ofthe ERAU Masters programs? (Sorry, too lazy to look it up myself.)

[Toro]

Second baseops.net - don't go with ERAU if you don't plan on staying in the AF. As for herk28's question - you get credit for PIT as well as SOS towards you ERAU masters. I don't recall PIT being 8 credits, though (I want to say it was 4).

[ClearedHot]

Let me offer a slightly different point of view,

#1 The government is paying if it does not extend your current commitment, you are foolish to waste the opportunity.

#2. I have seen several dudes who lost their medical and were suddenly trying to figure out what they were going to do with the rest of their life with regard to employment.

#3. My wife works for Lockheed and there are a crap load of furloughed airline pilots that work in her office Several of them have the Embry Riddle Aviation Masters which along with their airline experience, got them in the door. They make around 100K which is average for DC. I won’t say which contract on here, but there numerous opportunities to feed your family if you can’t fly.

#4. Embry Riddle makes it easy to knock out a Masters. In addition to the credit mentioned for PIT, you also credit for the following: SOS In-residence – 6, Aircraft Maintenance and Munitions Office Course – 9, Weapons School – 12 (depending on division). These numbers are old and off the top of my small melon, but if you have been to any of other schools out there you are well on your way with ERAU.

Don’t limit you options because you want to drink beer. I might be in the minority here, but I think if Uncle Sam is paying you are foolish not to give yourself options for the future. ERAU is not the best out there (I did it and am glad it is behind me), but it is easy and better than having nothing.

Old Guy opinion only…

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Get it done.

A master's degree is one of the rules you must follow if you intend to play the USAF career game.

FACT: Guys who say they're not going to do all the BS because they need to focus on flying are going to miss the best opportunities in the Air Force.

You can be a great pilot and follow the "rules"; it is not that difficult. More importantly, a graduate degree will be critical if you want to do something other than fly for food someday.

ERAU will fill the square. However, I suggest you get a good degree from a good school if you can. I would suggest an MBA. MBA is very often listed as a requirement or a highly desired attribute for job candidates in the real world. Think ahead and you'll be very happy you spent the extra effort.

BTW, airline pay is crap compared to what most of you guys could make in the real world. You are all very talented, you do not have to fly airplanes for a living.

Get a good job, buy a plane and fly for fun.

[Guest rotorhead]

There will always be promotion discriminators, and masters degrees are quick discriminators. The prom board does not have time to read about your work for the past decade...so came the approx dozen lines of the PRF. But that is a lot to read as well, so there are the P and DP box, so the DP dozen lines don't need to be read, just the lines on the P. Masters Y/N. ACSC Y/N. Much quicker than reading about your accomplishments in the USAF.

THE USAF DOES NOT WANT EVERYONE TO HAVE A MASTERS. If they did, they would schedule part of every week for a class for the "US Air Force Masters Degree"...but then it would no longer be a discriminator. Similarly with ACSC, AWC. They currently don't care what the major is, so they obviously don't require it to enhance your job...it is a discriminator.

It also allows them to put out stats like "74% of USAF officers have advanced degrees"

We pilots have lots of levels in our vernacular...FCF qual, Flt Lead qual, AC, IP, EP, Weapons Officer, test pilot, etc. etc. There are lots of nonrated folk in the USAF, and they need prom discriminators perhaps more than rated types. Also remember that promotion boards are mostly NOT PILOTS. Everyone understands Masters Y/N, but lots of folks on the boards are clueless about flying qual terms.

Rainman (welcome back, Brother) was right...get er done. It is THEIR game, and they can/will change the rules as they see fit...so play the "worst case scenario" and do it...to shut them up...and get you promoted.

I wonder if the folks in the MPF can work AAD pursuit into their schedule, between the duty hours of 10am-2pm, with lunch in the middle, with 1st Friday, 2nd Tuesday, 3rd Thursday, 4th Friday, Training Day, UTE day, and Natl Holidays OFF.

[ 13. April 2006, 13:36: Message edited by: rotorhead ]

[Whitman]

Sorry, I know I'm late but I'm starting my MBA in two weeks and may not be able to finish it before UPT. How many grad credits are required for a "Bachelors +" as M2 pointed out?

[ 13. June 2006, 01:45: Message edited by: whitman ]

[dmeg130]

Whit- Bachelor's + is 15 semester hours or 23 quarter hours. Send your transcripts to AFIT to update your records.

http://www.afit.edu/p/milpds.cfm

RWaller- techie degrees are hard to come by on base. Maybe a comp sci somewhere, it varies. If you're close to a real college, check them out. (This is for everyone) Most states offer resident tuition for military stationed there. You can take classes at a regular college, which will typically transfer very easily to another program. If you can swing your academic and deployment schedules the right way, you can pull off a REAL degree. Of course, mine's in geography, so "real" is relative. I *just* finished an MA at the UofA while at D-M. Took 2-3 classes a semester, worked with the schedulers, skipped out of work for a couple hours (same as PT time -- the AF is paying for your tuition), still flew a couple times a week, and presto! Won't work for everyone, but I was one of those "I'm not going to fill the square with a bogus degree that I'll hate." Getting stationed in Tucson made it easy to get get a Master's in something that I totally enjoyed (way more than working in the office). And now, instead of enjoying a year at Maxwell, I get to get another Master's full-time in Monterey.

Everyone's situation is different. If you don't get a degree one way or another, you only have yourself to blame. I guarantee that your Wing CC will use it to determine DPs for Lt Col, and probably Maj too, and the board will for school slots. Never give anyone a reason not to promote you. Enjoy.

[Champ Kind]

Thread Revival:

I heard a rumor that UPT could count towards elective credits in the ERAU Aeronautical Science Masters program....

Can anyone who has gone that route confirm this?

[Ram]

Originally posted by PhlashNU04:

Thread Revival:

I heard a rumor that UPT could count towards elective credits in the ERAU Aeronautical Science Masters program....

Can anyone who has gone that route confirm this?

Not true, but ERAU awards credit for PIT and some RTU's.

I got 8 of my 9 electives written off as a T-38 PIT grad, for example.

[Karl Hungus]

On the topic of MBAs....how hard is it for an active duty pilot to get one from a "real" school? Do you have to go the correspondence route, or is it possible/better to take a "sabbatical" of sorts and get one from say Harvard? Would taking that time off be looked down upon by your squadron? Is it best to simply wait until you get an assignment near a legit school (like dmeg130 at UA)?

[Toro]

We've got two guys who are taking master's programs at Duke University (about an hour drive to Raleigh). They're doing it all through night classes, which doesn't interfere with the schedule too much. The main problem is going to be with your prioritization and time management skills. Obviously you'd never do this during UPT or any other formal course, but you're not going to have much free time on the side.

I don't see how you'd get time off to do a "sabbatical".

[brickhistory]

For the question about Reserve promotions and an advanced degree; we are following the active duty. If it's unmasked for them, it's unmasked for us. Same, say, as the PT test being on OPRs starting this year. (I'm an AGR -note to active duty guys; AGR program is the BEST thing since sliced dough.)

Another program to consider having Uncle Sam send you to school for free is the Olmstead Scholarship program. Used to they'd send three regular officers per year from each service to the university of your choice. I don't know the current stats, but the program is still there.

One's brother did that - he chose to attend University at Vienna, Austria, so he got to go to Monterray DLI to learn German for a year, then Austria for a year, then to ensure that he had a US degree, to Harvard for a year. All while earning Capt's pay - man, what I wouldn't have done to have money while going thru school..........

[backseatdriver]

Does anyone know where to find a comprehensive list of schools that offer online Master's programs? Whenever I Google it, the lion's share of returns are for schools like University of Phoenix/DeVry/etc. I'm looking for actual universities that have programs. I know FSU has an online MBA, as do a few others. If anyone knows of a good resource that could make the search a little less painful I would appreciate it.