Guest B19Pilot Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Hello, Like it or not the Air Force and the military in general is no less suceptible to corruption than any other organization. Those of us that have served or are still currently have all seen everything from downright scandal to misappropriation of funds/material. I am the son of a retired USAF officer that served in WWII, Korea and Viet Nam. The system that he operated within is much different than the one that we see today. The Air Force still uses the basic model of combat experience (deocrations) to evaluate the suitability of officers to be promotable. However, with limited opportunities for combat, competition for promotion became fierce in the post-Viet Nam era. In fact, the permissive awards policy began in the Viet Nam era. So-called "ticket punching" staff officers had themselves assigned to combat units in order to get the requisite decorations (ie., DFC, single action AM and if you were really creative perhaps a Silver Star.) The whole thing just stunk and the officers from my Dad's era and the junior officers were the one's in the middle. Everyone wants to be recognized for doing their job, and we all want to get into the "big game" and demosntrate the skills refined in peacetime. Some people rise to the occasion and some fall by the wayside. In the final analysis, the Air Force is doing a great diservice to it's own heritage by handing out a DFC for seeing tracers and going "defensive". Isn't this what we are trained for and this is our job? Is seeing tracers or pre-emptively deploying countermeasures a qualification for extrordinary achievement in aerial flight? I personally don't think so. I was personally embarassed to see people I flew with walking arond with a combat V device on their Navy Commendation medal because they flew plane guard in a certain geograhpic area. Or listening to a department head go on and on about the fact that we deserved air medals for flying the mail off the coast of Somalia. Frankly, unless I know firsthand what the action was that resulted in the coveted decoration. I am skeptical of the individual wearing it. Regards, ex-Navy Rotorhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topper Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 I just remember reading this a couple months ago and thought to myself...wow I have a guy (engineer space wheeny type) who talks about his "experiences" in Iraq atleast twice a day. I have been in this squadron for about 4 months. He went to Iraq as a contracting officer and talks about how he "EARNED" all of his medals and awards and whatnot. He is a 3.5 year non-prior 1Lt that has 15 ribbons on his service dress. Most got "GIVEN" to him becuase of the deployment, and I'm sure if you take a S**t corretly without getting anything on the seat in space command you get a ribbon for each time. One of these happens to be a DMSM. I am a fresh Lt so I dont know "everything" there is to know about the Air Force obviously. What can a 1Lt who was in space command then happened to get deployed because he took a 3 week course at Wright Pat that gives you pretty little badge do to get you 15 ribbons and one of them be a DMSM. He spent 3 or 5 months in Iraq and set up some contracts. He comes up with this big story of how he saved the U.S. millions of dollars by buying the Iraqi police some trucks. So basically what he is saying is that he did his job out there like he is supposed to. Just venting a little since he seems to think that everyone is dumb if they were not an Aerospace Engineer in college. He was an AE major and has now been to "WAR". This guy couldn't find his way out of a cardboard box. It is kind of funnny that he thinks he is hot s**t and whatnot, but is going up to the force shaping board. I'm sure all his BS ribbons will get him through though. Well I guess I have done enough B****ing about this. I just wish you had to EARN medals and ribbons instead of them being given to you. Heck I have 3 for just breathing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jacobrichardsonqazwsx Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 why don't you tell him this when he goes off on one of his stories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerkDerka Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Next time he brings his shit at about his glorious DMSM under fire, be sure to give him the quote from AFPC: The medal Defense Meritorious Service Medal is awarded for noncombat meritorious achievement or service that is incontestably exceptional and of magnitude that clearly places the individual above his peers while serving in one of the assignments for which the medal has been designated.Then ask him how many of these he has: HD [ 29. November 2006, 18:39: Message edited by: HerkDerka ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest why Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 yeah then ask how many of THOSE a c-21 driver has ferrying brass from the deid.... I bet they were sweatin bullets. Heck the AM is even a joke nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerkDerka Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 We've has that discussion before and I considered disclaiming that. But it's still better than the shoe and his DMSM and a crap load better than the friggin GWOT service medal. Besides, the point is to put the shoe clerk who single handedly won the war on terror in his place. Originally posted by whyme?: yeah then ask how many of THOSE a c-21 driver has ferrying brass from the deid. C-21 missions don't qualify for the AM unless cross the border. At least most C-21 guys I've met have a sense of humor about it. HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest why Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 well i throwup in my mouth every time i read about some shoe clerk getting a bronze star for saving the AF 10 bucks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerkDerka Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 The bronze star has become the pinnacle of wrong when it comes to bullshit awards. Everytime I see one awarded to a shoe, I listen to the citation and look at the stupid expression on the shoe's face and think to myself, "Does he REALLY think that he earned that?" The sad answer.......yes. HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topper Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Yeah the bronze star is pretty much a joke now from what I've seen and the citations written. It pretty much doesn't count in my mind if it doesn't have a 'V' device these days. I pretty much constantly throw little one liner whoopty F***ing Doos his way any time he mentions him and veteran in the same sentence just to let him know in at least my eyes he still sucks. Maybe he can go to some high school and show off his glorious DMSM for those kids, they may be impressed. I have monitored this site for a little amount of time and always hear about the shoe clerks, and now I get to see some of it in action even though I have only been on AD for 6 months. The shoe clerks buffoonery around base just cracks me up on a weekly basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eeyore Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 The Four most important medals are the Medal of Honor, Purple Heart, Armed Forcese Expenditionary Medal and Armed Forces Service Medal. You are thinking What?? Well when one is applying for future Civil service jobs. These are the ones that add points to your score. All the DFC, DMSM, AM do not add to the point score. I agree the AF hands out ribbons and medals like candy. As for the Space Ranger; HerkDerka has a shack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtndr50boom Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 ^^ I always thought the AF cross was sorta important too. I guess no one who ever did anything heroic earned that hunk of scrap metal [ 30. November 2006, 15:55: Message edited by: Xtndr50boom ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooter Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Originally posted by Xtndr50boom: ^^ I always thought the AF cross was sorta important too. I guess no one who ever did anything heroic earned that hunk of scrap metal '2' on the sarcasm Boom. So Silver Stars, Navy Crosses, DFCs (In most cases) aren't worth it than either. Piss on the Civil Servixce points... (Substitute pee for barf). Cooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerkDerka Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Originally posted by Eeyore: Well when one is applying for future Civil service jobs. Great! All I have to do is receive the Congressional Medal of Honor, the Purple Heart, the AFEM, the AFSM, and then that mailman job is MINE!!! Who cares. HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest why Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Are they worthless? Can I be proud of them? NOPE, why because I did my job. My AM's are marginalized, yeah, no single sortie here. Point is they( medals in general) will always rot in a bottom drawer. could I be proud of them getting it under the same circumstances? Sure, if everyone else wasnt getting the same thing for sitting in a plush "support" base and their biggest contribution was chewing the A$$ of an aviator/snakeater/PJ/fill in the blank, who showed up " out of regs" Even the campaign medals are stupid. I talked to a viper dood, that fought in the stans and sandbox, and because he was deployed for OEF; he could only get the afghnistan or GWOT-E ( which you can get for leaving the CONUS.. now) Why because its handed out willynilly to anyone that can wave a bag of sand at the MPF, and that includes those finance warriors that tirelessly fight the war on terror in an air conditioned building in some kingdom from 1000-1100 every day... with every tuesday off for training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerkDerka Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Originally posted by whyme?: and that includes those finance warriors that tirelessly fight the war on terror in an air conditioned building in some kingdom from 1000-1100 every day... with every tuesday off for training. Wow, you seem have no concept of REAL combat finance ops. I think it's safe to say that you would never make it in the world of tactical finance. Today's finance airmen are revolutionary and expeditionary. When the finance warriors deploy to a forward area, they greatly increase their operating hours to accommodate the high-paced 24-7 ops tempo. Most forward finance offices engage in finance ops from seven to eleven.......that's 0700 to 1100. Not to mention no more tuesday's off. Expeditionary training is generally conducted from 1100 every friday to 0700 on monday to better "serve" our warriors. Wednesday's are generally min-manning days reserves for writing citations so our finance snake-eaters can get the Bronze Star they deserve. HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sky_king Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Originally posted by whyme?: well i throwup in my mouth every time i read about some shoe clerk getting a bronze star for saving the AF 10 bucks... I've flown 6 rides now in my pilot training career so far and I haven't crashed yet. So by my math, I have saved the AF $30,000,000. (six T^'s) I think that qualifies me for something right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Originally posted by sky_king: I've flown 6 rides now in my pilot training career so far and I haven't crashed yet. So by my math, my IP has saved the AF $30,000,000. (six T^'s) I think that qualifies my IP for something right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaver Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 All this righteous indignation over medals is a little over-wrought. Be proud of what you do, happy with whatever medals come of it, and remember your best stories so you can tell your grandkids. Who gives a shit what a finance guy gets? You know what you did or didn't do. I got a single sortie air medal and I'm pretty proud of it. I got a bronze star that I'm a little less proud of. But I'm still glad to have it because there will always be a story behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rainman A-10 Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Excellent point and timely check blocks call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 On the cover of this week's Air Force Times... "Too Many Medals? Air Force Awards More Bronze Stars Than The Marines""Bogus Medals - Congress Passes Law To Punish Fakers"Anyone else think they were the same article?? Cheers! M2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pcoandgo Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Originally posted by HerkDerka: Wow, you seem have no concept of REAL combat finance ops. I think it's safe to say that you would never make it in the world of tactical finance. Today's finance airmen are revolutionary and expeditionary. When the finance warriors deploy to a forward area, they greatly increase their operating hours to accommodate the high-paced 24-7 ops tempo. Most forward finance offices engage in finance ops from seven to eleven.......that's 0700 to 1100. Not to mention no more tuesday's off. HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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