Civilian flying during UPT

[Guest driftsight]

Anybody know if a student pilot in UPT, while on leave away from training, can pilot a civilian aircraft? In what regs would something like this be?

I've heard it can go both ways, so I'm not too sure. I've got some Christmas leave coming up and have really been looking forward to taking some friends on a ride in the 'other' cessna type. ...So... am I allowed?

[war007afa]

You have to fill out the Hazardous Activities form with your Flt/CC I believe.

[Guest Hoser]

I am 99.69% sure that you can fly. The restriction, at least it was when I went thru, was that you were not allowed to pursue any civilian ratings (read no duel recieved toward an instrument rating, etc)

Hoser

[Guest JArcher00]

you will not have the time nor the interest to fly a -172

[Guest JArcher00]

Well Swingin, I do guess it is easier to ask for forgivness than ask for permission. I will give you that, but I guess the 100 hour student super pilots still need their fix every once awhile when they are at home telling their buddys they are almost military pilots.

[KennyB]

Originally posted by RedDog:

I guess the 100 hour student super pilots still need their fix every once awhile when they are at home telling their buddys they are almost military pilots.

I flew 172s several times in different states (not TX) while I was on leave in UPT. I had also heard a rumor I could never substantiate that I 'can't' go flying while in UPT. Whaaatever. I certainly wouldn't characterize myself as a '100 hour super student pilot'. But it was nice to make flying somewhat fun again for a .5 with my Dad. IPs and UPT suck in case you forgot. It's fun to go do something different from AF flying and just chill out.

Variety is the spice of life.

[Guest sleepy]

Originally posted by RedDog:

... but I guess the 100 hour student super pilots still need their fix every once awhile when they are at home telling their buddys they are almost military pilots.

Or maybe they just like to fly. Chasing trains in a NORDO airplane is often times better than sex. :D

[Guest JArcher00]

I will take your word on it. I will stick with the latter.

[Guest PilotKD]

Depends on the base. At Moody, the OSS commander forbid anyone from flying outside of UPT unless it was IFT. Why? Same reason the AF prohibits alot of other things - a few @ssclowns did something stupid and ruined it for everyone else. I don't know if that's changed since I left though.

[ 21. December 2005, 12:25: Message edited by: PilotKD ]

[Bergman]

Originally posted by PilotKD:

Why? Same reason the AF prohibits alot of other things - a few @ssclowns did something stupid and ruined it for everyone else. I don't know if that's changed since I left though.

Yeah...don't know if the other bases show the video of the XL studs from late 90's in a -172 (with their girlfriends on board as well) doing "Iron Eagle" type stunts around the bluffs at Lake Amistad. A bunch of their buddies filmed them doing wingovers and such in very close proximity to the water and cliffs. A news report said they flew under the Hwy 90 bridge and later augered it in after a stall. All 4 killed.

BTW - I would be interested in a copy of that video if anyone has it or knows of a link.

[BFM this]

Originally posted by PilotKD:

...At Moody, the OSS commander forbid anyone from flying outside of UPT unless it was IFT. Why? Same reason the AF prohibits alot of other things...

I'd be interested to know the legalities either way on this one. Seems to me, if they could, most CC's would forbid all sorts of things, starting with motorcycles. There's a reason that they don't, and I'd be surprised if said commander wasn't just beating his chest about civil flying knowing that anyone who asked would be permitted.

I'm really interested in this one...

[Guest driftsight]

Originally posted by BFM this:

I'd be interested to know the legalities either way on this one. Seems to me, if they could, most CC's would forbid all sorts of things, starting with motorcycles. There's a reason that they don't, and I'd be surprised if said commander wasn't just beating his chest about civil flying knowing that anyone who asked would be permitted.

I'm really interested in this one...

[Mambo]

Yeah...don't know if the other bases show the video of the XL studs from late 90's in a -172 (with their girlfriends on board as well) doing "Iron Eagle" type stunts around the bluffs at Lake Amistad. A bunch of their buddies filmed them doing wingovers and such in very close proximity to the water and cliffs. A news report said they flew under the Hwy 90 bridge and later augered it in after a stall. All 4 killed.

This actually sounds like a good way to weed out the not-so-good pilots, kinda like natural selection. Let them go do all kinda high risk endeavors. The ones that make it back make the species stronger.

[Guest SunDevilFlyer]

Don't do it dude. I just got an LOA from Moody for flying. I heard it was OK @ other bases, but just ask.

[Guest lovelacm]

OUCH... Hope that's a desk-drawer kinda thing.

[Guest PilotKD]

Originally posted by BFM this:

I'd be interested to know the legalities either way on this one. Seems to me, if they could, most CC's would forbid all sorts of things, starting with motorcycles. There's a reason that they don't, and I'd be surprised if said commander wasn't just beating his chest about civil flying knowing that anyone who asked would be permitted.

I'm really interested in this one...

[Hacker]

Originally posted by driftsight:

Anybody know in what regs this topic should be?

How about the UCMJ. Your Commander orders you not to do something. Unless it is an illegal order, you must comply.

Seems pretty simple to me.

[BFM this]

Again the question: then how far in trail is CC's prohibiting motorcycles? Nothing illegal with that order, right?

I'm not advocating disobedience, I just think there's something else here.

[Guest cbire880]

I would imagine the flying restriction is limited to UPT personnel, not everyone on base. Probably more to reduce negative transfer learning. Also personal flying counts towards flight duty hours in the civillian world, so that may have an effect as well.

I had an instructor who wasn't allowed to fly fixed wing while in Army helo training back in the day.

[BFM this]

Probably so. Motorcycles statistically are on par with or just slightly more dangerous than light GA. Unless of course you're talking about a couple of UPT studs and their girlfriends out shining their asses at Lake Amistad. Then all bets are off.

I was in the middle of digging up stats when it hit me that I really don't care that much. I just was wondering how draconian a commander can get before reg's or higher authority says BS.

A commander could say:

-no motorcycles,

-no hard liquor,

-noone outside a 25 mile radius unless on leave

-and noone off base overnight.

These are all legal orders and seems to me that they would all be in line with improving readiness and keeping airmen safe, right?

[BFM this]

No comments from the 'Died...

[Guest driftsight]

I agree BFM.

I couldn't get a solid answer from my chain, (just a , "I don't think the regs allow that...") so I'm going take this one in the ass and suck it up. I don't want the remainder of my AF career to be like this though...whatever. Thanks for the input all. Merry Christmas and happy holidays.

[B-O-double-Z]

I've never heard anything prohibiting military pilots from flying civilian planes on their free time. Doing it for hire may be another issue. Active duty officers are limited on what they can do for money outside the military.

All this stuff about not being able to fly during UPT sounds like a WOM to me. If your commander directly forbid you from flying, that might be a lawful order--I don't know. But, I doubt anyone can find a standing regulation, in AETC or otherwise, that says you can't fly civilian planes.

[Guest PilotKD]

You're not a military pilot in UPT. You're a pee-on LT subject to the anal rules and regs of AETC. If OSS commander Lt Col Shmucko wants to prohibit outside flying for all UPT studs in that wing, I'm sure he or she's got the pull to do it.

They also prohibited us from going to "Remerton", which was a small municipality of a whole 2 or 3 blocks located within Valdosta that had a well known row of bars that were popular with the local Valdosta State University populous and of course, the UPT studs. Remerton actually has it's own police department and the crooks, eerrr... cops, would park across the street from the bars waiting for military types to come out to nail them for public intoxication and what not. They knew we had a steady income as opposed to the local college crack heads. So, they banded us from going there. Quite a shame really, as those were some good times.

Again, I'm sure the Wing can do whatever they want. No sense wasting your time challenging the CC making yourself look like a smart@ss. I'm sure this is only a Moody thing and Moody's being BRAC'd anyway. Of course, you can take the chance of going out of town (or state) for the weekend and renting a plane for an hour or two joyride. I'm not saying that's what I did or anything, but if you do it, don't log it. :D

[Guest JArcher00]

Log what ever you want. The CC can't do anything about it. They would have to get something in writing to search your $hit. Assuming you do not live in dorms. Logging it has nothing to do with it. Why risk something for nothing but a joy ride.