Promotion and PRF Information

[Broke]

2 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

BODN/JA in the house. Log off everyone....you will be hit with court martial duty if you don't.

Wait...what? 

In what universe is trying to get money from someone that you know you are not entitled to not fraud? That's literally the definition of "defraud". And I didn't accuse him of doing it. He literally said "Anyone know how to press to test to see if they are dumb enough to pay me Separation Pay for non-continuation?"

How am I the a-hole here?

[Duck]

I didn't go straight to fraud. I asked what the letter said. If a person straight up said "don't promote" me, then turned around and tried to get invol sep then that person is committing fraud (i.e. the "hope nobody notices" comment from a third party above). The content of the letter is relevant to the discussion as is your intent in pursuing the separation pay. That's why I asked a question and followed up with several "if, then" statements. This is decidedly different from making an accusation. 

 

Yeah, except that’s not what the reg says. You can write a letter requesting to be passed over. The letter alone doesn’t do anything. The BOARD determines if the letter caused your non-selection or not or if your record was going to be a non-select anyways. If your letter caused it, then no you aren’t entitled. I don’t think it matters in my case anyway because I am assuming my second letter will be the “determining” factor in the second board. I don’t know why asking if I am eligible for involuntary separation pay through official AF channels is equivalent to trying to commit fraud... and if I could somehow trick the AF to give me $69,000 when they won’t even pay out my $200 travel voucher, then damn, I’m better than I thought.

[Broke]

I didn't read "press to test to see if they are dumb enough to pay me" as "asking if I am eligible for involuntary separation pay through official AF channels". 

[Guest]

Read 10 USC 1174. Submitting a “do not promote me letter” is enough to lose your eligibility for Separation Pay. The letter does not have to be the reason the Board chose not to select you.

[Sprkt69]

4 hours ago, Duck said:

Did you get this paperwork on the public release date? I went by our FSS and talked to Promotions and Separations. Both of them acted like they had no clue what I was talking about. It’s almost like no one had ever separated from my base... lol

It’s like PCS’s or deployments, you are probably the first from that base. So you will have to bear with them as they figure it out

[bennynova]

Duck,

  any thoughts to join the space force?

 

you could rise up the reserve ranks pretty quickly.

[Duck]

Duck,
  any thoughts to join the space force?
 
you could rise up the reserve ranks pretty quickly.

I was pretty good at Halo back in college.

[Duck]

Read 10 USC 1174. Submitting a “do not promote me letter” is enough to lose your eligibility for Separation Pay. The letter does not have to be the reason the Board chose not to select you.

That’s interesting. Directly contradicts our AFI. Thanks for the info.

[Duck]

I didn't read "press to test to see if they are dumb enough to pay me" as "asking if I am eligible for involuntary separation pay through official AF channels". 

You caught me Space Ranger. Good work.

[Guardian]

Why did you write the letter in the first place? If it was in order to get non-continued so you could (no pun intended) duck out of your ADSC then you are not entitled to pay. If you try to get paid anyway then you are committing fraud. If the letter was to clarify derogatory info then it wouldn't be the reason you got non-selected (the derog would be the reason). In that case, you get the money. Why the confusion?

He’s not committing fraud if he applies for something he isn’t 100% sure that he is or isn’t eligible for. Dramatic much?

[Guardian]

Wait...what? 
In what universe is trying to get money from someone that you know you are not entitled to not fraud? That's literally the definition of "defraud". And I didn't accuse him of doing it. He literally said "Anyone know how to press to test to see if they are dumb enough to pay me Separation Pay for non-continuation?"
How am I the a-hole here?

Because you assume he knows for sure that he isn’t eligible. Even when he tells you straight up he doesn’t know. How is that fraud? People like you who make all encompassing assumptions of what’s wrong with the process are part of what’s wrong with the AF. Keep it up. You’ll go far by today’s general standards.

[slackline]

I don’t know why asking if I am eligible for involuntary separation pay through official AF channels is equivalent to trying to commit fraud... and if I could somehow trick the AF to give me $69,000 when they won’t even pay out my $200 travel voucher, then damn, I’m better than I thought.

I'm sure you're a good dude and the AF has hosed you for sure, but guess what, most of us have been hosed at some point. It doesn't give us carte blanche to ditch our standards. Imagine an AF in which all officers had your attitude. I despise a lot of what I have to go through in the AF, but the men and women I get to serve with make it tolerable.

Maybe no one on here wants to say it, or maybe this board has turned into something where only a bunch of whiners come to complain, but your statement here makes me feel like the AF got this one right. I feel like anyone willing to take $69K under erroneous circumstances is someone that should never have been an officer in the first place. When you say "trick the AF to give you" that's what you're getting at, so twist it however else you want. When they don't pay our travel voucher is due to ineptitude, not malacious intentions.

Again, sorry your career got cut short. Sorry you're one of the individuals paying for poor leadership at the top, but based on your reactions, you are not what will help fix the AF going forward.

I hope you find a great job on the outside. I could be way off base here, and if so I apologise. If I'm not, I'm sure you and many others on here will reply with something incredibly mature proving me right. In that case, I still wish you the best, I just wish if for you outside of the guard/reserves because you don't need to be serving anymore.

I am grateful for your service, however. You've done more than the overwhelming majority, so thank you!

[Guardian]

I didn't read "press to test to see if they are dumb enough to pay me" as "asking if I am eligible for involuntary separation pay through official AF channels". 

You’re right. You didn’t. You assumed what it meant. Is this general Chang?

[Guardian]

 

I'm sure you're a good dude and the AF has hosed you for sure, but guess what, most of us have been hosed at some point. It doesn't give us carte blanche to ditch our standards. Imagine an AF in which all officers had your attitude. I despise a lot of what I have to go through in the AF, but the men and women I get to serve with make it tolerable.

 

Maybe no one on here wants to say it, or maybe this board has turned into something where only a bunch of whiners come to complain, but your statement here makes me feel like the AF got this one right. I feel like anyone willing to take $69K under erroneous circumstances is someone that should never have been an officer in the first place. When you say "trick the AF to give you" that's what you're getting at, so twist it however else you want. When they don't pay our travel voucher is due to ineptitude, not malacious intentions.

 

Again, sorry your career got cut short. Sorry you're one of the individuals paying for poor leadership at the top, but based on your reactions, you are not what will help fix the AF going forward.

 

I hope you find a great job on the outside. I could be way off base here, and if so I apologise. If I'm not, I'm sure you and many others on here will reply with something incredibly mature proving me right. In that case, I still wish you the best, I just wish if for you outside of the guard/reserves because you don't need to be serving anymore.

 

I am grateful for your service, however. You've done more than the overwhelming majority, so thank you!

Wow. Obviously you don’t know any of Duck’s history. Seriously? You’re wading into a conversation you know very little about and giving big opinions. Good job. But no one asked you. Thanks for your service. If you indeed have served.

 

You could have stuck to the nice statements and asked questions of what you don’t understand. Is that a polite enough correction? How thick is your skin?

[Duck]

I’m sorry guys, I didn’t mean to start an argument or get anyone indicted in federal court. I was merely asking if I was eligible and if there was a way to press to test on that eligibility. From what it sounds, I will find out with ZERO interaction on my part. Furthermore, I expect to retire in the ANG so if somehow I do get $$$ I’m gonna end up paying it back. Thanks to those of you who helped.

[xaarman]

IVSP isn’t something you file for, like a travel voucher with a made up non-a letter. It’s a long, drawn out process and at the end of the paperwork, the AF will tell you if you’ve met the criteria for IVSP, and if you do, they pay you, and if you don’t, they don’t pay you. Lots of assumptions going on here. 

Duck: it’s a bit more drawn out than that (go figure.) you have to sign your paperwork acknowledging your acceptance of continuation, declining continuation, or non continue and separate (it’s all one form, you’ll recognize it when you see it.) From there, your CC sends it to MPF who then forwards it to AFPC for the separation program processing. The forms you get back from AFPC will have the IVSP information, or in my case, a box checked saying you are ineligible for pay. I believe it should be on your separation orders, I can do back and look.

 

In my case, MPF “forgot” to forward it to AFPC, so when I called the TFSC asking what the hang up was, they said it was because I hadn’t returned a form. The person sent me the form directly, I replied directly, and that got the ball moving, albeit another week or two later.

 

 

 

[slackline]

Wow. Obviously you don’t know any of Duck’s history. Seriously? You’re wading into a conversation you know very little about and giving big opinions. Good job. But no one asked you. Thanks for your service. If you indeed have served.
 
You could have stuck to the nice statements and asked questions of what you don’t understand. Is that a polite enough correction? How thick is your skin?

Please, enlighten me. My skin is thick enough for whatever you've got. I've been around long enough to stand up to some ridiculous internet tough guys.

Once again, if I'm wrong, I'll own it. Doesn't change what he said. If what he said was all tongue in cheek, well, can't blame people for not seeing that on the interwebs. Saying you want to "trick" the AF into money is pretty cut and dry. I didn't Wade into his past service, in fact, I thanked him for it, so way to go there.

Believe it or not you can throw away years of honorable service with one bad decision.

[xaarman]

You’re wrong. There is no tricking the system, bureaucratically speaking.  See my post above. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by xaarman

[slackline]

You’re wrong. See my post above. 

Cool, but I fail to see how your post disproves the fact that he said he was trying to trick the AF out of money. Maybe you weren't talking to me.

Again, if he wasn't trying to do anything like that, then he should be able to ignore my ignorant statement with no issues. As should everyone else.

[xaarman]

3 minutes ago, slackline said:

Cool, but I fail to see how your post disproves the fact that he said he was trying to trick the AF out of money. Maybe you weren't talking to me.

Again, if he wasn't trying to do anything like that, then he should be able to ignore my ignorant statement with no issues. As should everyone else.

Your question came off like you were judging someone for asking if they receive per diem on a on a TDY. There is no trickery here, it’s either you do, or certain parameters mean you don’t. It’s not up to the member to decide. In fact, this goes one step further because AFPC does the travel voucher. 

 

Edit: According to the bureaucracy, we are the victims here, being separated against our will. The system views us in the same boat as those are are RIFd, and certain benefits come with that  

 

Edited June 19, 2018 by xaarman

[bennynova]

29 minutes ago, slackline said:

 

I'm sure you're a good dude and the AF has hosed you for sure, but guess what, most of us have been hosed at some point. It doesn't give us carte blanche to ditch our standards. Imagine an AF in which all officers had your attitude. I despise a lot of what I have to go through in the AF, but the men and women I get to serve with make it tolerable.

Maybe no one on here wants to say it, or maybe this board has turned into something where only a bunch of whiners come to complain, but your statement here makes me feel like the AF got this one right. I feel like anyone willing to take $69K under erroneous circumstances is someone that should never have been an officer in the first place. When you say "trick the AF to give you" that's what you're getting at, so twist it however else you want. When they don't pay our travel voucher is due to ineptitude, not malacious intentions.

Again, sorry your career got cut short. Sorry you're one of the individuals paying for poor leadership at the top, but based on your reactions, you are not what will help fix the AF going forward.

I hope you find a great job on the outside. I could be way off base here, and if so I apologise. If I'm not, I'm sure you and many others on here will reply with something incredibly mature proving me right. In that case, I still wish you the best, I just wish if for you outside of the guard/reserves because you don't need to be serving anymore.

I am grateful for your service, however. You've done more than the overwhelming majority, so thank you!

 

I'd say you are off base simply because you don't seem to know the backstory on duck.    He has wanted out of the AF and found a way to make it happen.  The AF didn't "get this right".  They didn't cut ducks career shorter than he wanted.    He's not jaded that they are dismissing him.   It's what he wanted.   It's his briar patch.  

[norskman]

19 minutes ago, slackline said:

Maybe no one on here wants to say it, or maybe this board has turned into something where only a bunch of whiners come to complain

Again, sorry your career got cut short. Sorry you're one of the individuals paying for poor leadership at the top, but based on your reactions, you are not what will help fix the AF going forward.
 

 

Disagree with you on this dude. We're pretty much all pilots here, complaining is what we do. That being said, a majority of the complaints on this forum are completely valid. 

But you're right about Duck not being the fix for the AF, that's because he is voluntarily seperating on his terms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he sees the writing on the wall. 

Sometimes voting with your feet is the only way people will listen. Talk  is cheap. Actions matter. Good luck Duck.

 

 

[aggiecadet03]

Hate to break up the fun.  But does anyone know of a location of the list.  I would like to know my line number.  

Edited June 19, 2018 by aggiecadet03

[RJ09]

12 minutes ago, aggiecadet03 said:

Hate to break up the fun.  But does anyone know of a location of the list.  I would like to know my line number.  

List will be posted publically tomorrow.  Your CC should know your line number.  

[slackline]

Disagree with you on this dude. We're pretty much all pilots here, complaining is what we do. That being said, a majority of the complaints on this forum are completely valid. 

But you're right about Duck not being the fix for the AF, that's because he is voluntarily seperating on his terms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he sees the writing on the wall. 

Sometimes voting with your feet is the only way people will listen. Talk  is cheap. Actions matter. Good luck Duck.

 

 

I’m a pilot, I get it. Agreed, there are mostly valid complaints here.

 

I’m failing how people, pilots as you’ve pointed out who are supposed to be really smart, are failing to put this together. Ignore his backstory for a moment. He came on here and literally used the words “trick the AF” into paying him $69K. You just pointed out that his intentions this whole time were to successfully separate from the AF. That $69K is for being involuntarily separated unless I’m mistaken. If so, my bad.

 

In what world is it ethical and of sound integrity to attempt to get something you are not entitled to? Again, if he said it all tongue in cheek, my bad.

 

I apologize if I’m coming off holier than thou, but in my squadron, I wouldn’t be too happy if one of my guys attempted this. It’s just kind of sad is all. We complain about senior leadership, and rightly so, but this is not cool.

 

Vote with your feet, don’t attempt to screw the AF on the way out. You just make it more difficult on your bros when you leave.

 

This is a pointless conversation. The AF is going to get its pound of flesh regardless. Get yours, ethically, when and where you can.