FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

[chizz]

Looking at my CMS just now, it doesn't look like anything has changed...still at BPO or whatever.

However, I no longer have the option to see my application under the separations sections of vMPF. I go to "self service actions" and then "separations" and then there are the following options to click on: DD Form 214 worksheet, initial separation worksheet, officer voluntary separation tutorial, voluntary separation, and pre-separation order worksheet.

I may be taking crazy pills but I do not recall seeing all of these options before, especially the DD form 214 and the initial separation worksheet. Also, now when I click on the voluntary separation option it doesn't do anything (which I think that was how I used to get to my submitted application).

Anyone on VMPF see something similar?

2006, C-17, K11M3K, 4 years ADSC

click on voluntary separation and your app is in there.

the 2001 guy, how are you applying for TERA? I thought you had to have 15 yrs?

FYSA, had a dude in my unit get VSP approved late last week. 13S, 2008 YG, ADSC for PCS.

It seems like most of the guys getting Officer approved VSPs are fairly young right at the 6 yr mark. Cheapest bunch to reduce the force. Come, get to the 2002 year group already. Good thing we arent at war or anything, god forbid they would have to make timely decisions. These programs were released what, back in like Nov/Dec? we are going on almost 6 months of them failing at their job. Half a year wasted on AFPC trying to figure out this mess, then when you think they do, any small amount of credibility and confidence they have regained in the past week or so has immediately been wiped clean by revoking previous TERA approvals. WOW, amazing. 9 commanders fired over the ICBM stuff, but I am sure there will be some amazing PCS medals given out in San Antonio after all this.

[panchbarnes]

After following the FY14 fiasco, I am really looking forward to the FY15 Force Management Program.

Is it too early to start a thread just for F15 FMP? I kid I kid!

[tunes]

Looking at my CMS just now, it doesn't look like anything has changed...still at BPO or whatever.

However, I no longer have the option to see my application under the separations sections of vMPF. I go to "self service actions" and then "separations" and then there are the following options to click on: DD Form 214 worksheet, initial separation worksheet, officer voluntary separation tutorial, voluntary separation, and pre-separation order worksheet.

I may be taking crazy pills but I do not recall seeing all of these options before, especially the DD form 214 and the initial separation worksheet. Also, now when I click on the voluntary separation option it doesn't do anything (which I think that was how I used to get to my submitted application).

Anyone on VMPF see something similar?

2006, C-17, K11M3K, 4 years ADSC

those options were always there. you have to click on voluntary separation in order to be able to see your application

[rbigred300]

those options were always there. you have to click on voluntary separation in order to be able to see your application

Gotcha. I didn't know all those options were always there, but I did know that you had to click on voluntary separation to see your application. Now when I click on it, nothing happens, it just refreshes the page. So either it is a glitch with the page, or perhaps they pull that option of reviewing/changing your application after it is processed.

Edited April 5, 2014 by rbigred300

[tunes]

Gotcha. I didn't know all those options were always there, but I did know that you had to click on voluntary separation to see your application. Now when I click on it, nothing happens, it just refreshes the page. So either it is a glitch with the page, or perhaps they pull that option of reviewing/changing your application after it is processed.

I've had the same issue. The only way I have gotten the 'voluntary separation' pop up to work is in IE. I've had no luck in Chrome, Firefox, or Safari.

[BB Stacker]

I've had the same issue. The only way I have gotten the 'voluntary separation' pop up to work is in IE. I've had no luck in Chrome, Firefox, or Safari.

Good rule of thumb for any AF (or really, any .mil) application or website is to only expect it to work in IE...and probably only with compatibility view enabled because it was likely designed 10 years ago by a bunch of idiots to specifically only work with an ancient version of IE.

[Champ Kind]

Man, talk about getting it all wrong. Just like the non-continued O-4s and the VSP debacle a fews ago, things like this should serve as a huge warning sign to the younger guys.

This is much more than screwing with individuals' lives/post-AF plans. This is adding to the already stacked amount of data points in the "con" column for those guys that are on the fence about staying in.

[Dagoden]

https://www.jqpublic-blog.com/force-mismanagement-afpc-botches-retirements-airmen-caught-crossfire/

[Crewdog135]

Did anyone that got a "take back" email on Friday already have retirement orders? I got my orders Friday. , now I have to go in and check. On a Saturday. Again. If CSAF isn't flying nuts from his flagpole after this, I don't care how good of a guy he is, his term is a failure. Three drunk monkeys could run a drawdown better and still have time to fling poo.

[chim richalds]

SECAF gets blame too, she was on the scene for 20 minutes and then chaos everywhere.

[Snuggie]

My friend just got word that his VSP approval yesterday.

31S (SF)

2008 year group

ADSC- less than a year for a PCS.

He was going to get out soon anyways so at least now he gets a nice chunk of money on his way out the door.

[Catbox]

Did anyone that got a "take back" email on Friday already have retirement orders? I got my orders Friday. Fuck, now I have to go in and check. On a Saturday. Again. If CSAF isn't flying nuts from his flagpole after this, I don't care how good of a guy he is, his term is a failure. Three drunk monkeys could run a drawdown better and still have time to fling poo.

H

To be clear I haven't gotten the "take back" email and mypers shows me as approved. However, my retirement date is gone from my CDB and my record had gone from a code 20 (projected for retirement) to code 10 (no projected action).

Almost a direct quote from TFSC was that "you are not retiring 1 August and you will probably get a mypers notification that you are disapproved"

To specifically answer your question I did not have orders. Which is interesting because when I talked to FSS on Friday they said the person to cut the orders was out but they would be but as soon as they were back.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Catbox

[Crewdog135]

Alright, I just checked and it seems my retirement is still valid (at least for now). No emails and I still have a DOS of 31 Jul 14 on my CDB. I would have been surprised if they rescended the orders.

But my observation still stands..its time to show leadership from the very top. To anyone who got a take back, I feel for you and on behalf of the Air Force, I'm sorry. It doesn't mean squat coming from me, but you deserve to hear that from someone and I'm not holding my breath that those who owe you an apology will be forthcoming. I weep for what this institution is becoming.

[LettersVSandP]

Apology? That's nice and all, but they deserve to retire exactly as previously approved. And I'd imagine they're going to get really vocal in agreement of that point of view if somebody in charge doesn't overrule this ridiculous (and possibly unlawful) "take back".

[Guest]

SECAF gets blame too, she was on the scene for 20 minutes and then chaos everywhere.

My thoughts exactly.

https://www.dvidshub.net/video/319383/secaf-pentagon-town-hall-briefing-1-9-2014

[...]She generally appears somewhat under-informed. I suspect she is simply repeating what her staff told her to say without a genuine, first-hand knowledge of the attitude and mission of the AF. Watch 30:00 - 31:15--her topic is sobering, but her approach and mood appears much more like the spouse of an Colonel instead of the SECAF. Another good example is at 59:30 in her highly vague response to Cyber development. I am somewhat convinced that she was chosen to be a yes-man and a strong presence in the sexual assault prevention PR blitz, but not a good leader for a service-wide transition during budget and personnel reductions.

[stract]

I'm glad I was able to achieve escape velocity now more than ever.

[Vprdrvr69]

https://www.jqpublic-blog.com/force-mismanagement-afpc-botches-retirements-airmen-caught-crossfire/

Nailed it once again. Worth reading.

[Jaded]

I wonder if there might not be real legal repercussions to "taking back" retirement? At what point is that just involuntarily activating someone? The day you outprocess your final base?

[panchbarnes]

The term "FIIGMO" no longer applies in today's AF...

[chizz]

The new term is F!....IGMO

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

[17D_guy]

Seems like that sternly worded email I said Gen Cox was going to send got routed to the poor souls who were "approved in error". I was removed from eligibility in the latest update, and wasn't applying anyway. But like you guys say, I'm using their actions as a gage for what we're going to face ahead.

My Lt's and Amn/NCOs are coming to me with questions about staying in and the future and when this shit happens I can't think of even a positive way to spin it. This won't even make a good story years from now. I've given out LoR's for much less than what's going on at AFPC. My guys see nothing but screwup after screwup with no repercussions for the people managing our lives. Guess I should track if I have more attention to detail problems soon.

The despair that hit me when I saw that "Haha, just kidding" email was pretty tough. I couldn't imagine actually getting the rug pulled that hard.

I hope this great leader shows up shortly.

[HeloDude]

No matter how many times they throw the force under the bus, there will always be guys around willing to accept it. It's called moral hazard.

You have a few decent thoughts, but here's where I see the biggest 'potential' flaw with Big Blue: Convincing the young guys for the future.

Back when I was competing for a UPT slot in ROTC (to include the entire time in the program), there was very little negative talk about joining the AF, willing to accept the new 10-yr ADSC, all the BS that active duty would entail, etc. Is it the same way at the Academy/ROTC Dets today? My ROTC time was before Sept 11th, so we weren't hearing all the crazy stories about all the deployments (though we knew the fighter guys were doing ONW and SW, and that the heavy guys were always doing their standard trips, but it didn't sound too bad). Also, the only brief Internet chat about AD seemed to be on studentpilot.net (if I got that correctly) and guys like Hacker and Toro telling us how AD flying was the best thing since sex (I don't blame them...times were much better then).

Flash Forward to today: I'm assuming there are quite a bit of young guys at the Acedemy and in ROTC that constantly lurk on here and I'm sure they tell their friends the good/bad/ugly stories we discuss...have these stories influenced the young 20-year olds to not pursue taking on the longer ADSC? As naive/immature (and motivated, of course) that the pre-commisionees are, hearing all the crap we put out, not to mention the open-source info about RIFs, constant focus on SAPR stuff, you name it...this stuff eventually has to influence the younger guys. Flying is great, but anything great has a price, and if it gets too high people will eventually say it's not worth it. Or will there always be enough halfway decent young guys wanting to fly so badly that they don't care about the horror stories? Either way, you're right--it won't change much in the short term I'm sure.

Maybe the AF will soon need to resort to recruiting videos like this:

https://vimeo.com/7015914

[Mish_Hacker]

Maybe the AF will soon need to resort to recruiting videos like this:

New Air Force Motto: Aim High...Fly, Fight, Win*

* Terms and conditions apply.

[Magellan]

Flash Forward to today: I'm assuming there are quite a bit of young guys at the Acedemy and in ROTC that constantly lurk on here and I'm sure they tell their friends the good/bad/ugly stories we discuss...have these stories influenced the young 20-year olds to not pursue taking on the longer ADSC? As naive/immature (and motivated, of course) that the pre-commisionees are, hearing all the crap we put out, not to mention the open-source info about RIFs, constant focus on SAPR stuff, you name it...this stuff eventually has to influence the younger guys. Flying is great, but anything great has a price, and if it gets too high people will eventually say it's not worth it. Or will there always be enough halfway decent young guys wanting to fly so badly that they don't care about the horror stories? Either way, you're right--it won't change much in the short term I'm sure.

Their deals have gotten progressively shittier, but the AF still keeps getting enough officers from these sources. So much so that OTS is barely producing any officers. So as long as the Air Force is getting enough meat for the grinder I don't think the AFPC folks will ever really give a shit, because they operate under the illusion of, "Hey we have enough bodies. So what if we piss a few people off...we need to get rid of some anyway."

Getting back to the shitty deals...one example is the rated slot application process. Back in the day (early 2000's and before) you could apply for just one rated career field Pilot, Nav, or ABM. Then they changed it for ROTC cadets that if you apply for one you apply for all of them with RPA operator thrown into the mix as well now, and the Air Force is supposedly rolling this out at the Academy as well. So until high school kids get wise to the AF shenanigans and stop applying for the academy and ROTC scholarships the AF will always have enough bodies on the officer side so they will continue to treat us like crap and mismanage the force. The reason being simply because the Air Force is naturally more inclined to replace people than to retain them.

That said the Academy is in a downward spiral according to my friend that is an instructor there that just got approved for VSP. Apparently AETC thought it would be a great idea to shit can the program that gets almost all the military instructors there the degrees required to go teach in their respective departments. Not to mention they are all but shutting down the channels for the top instructors to go on to get their doctorates so they can come back and be department heads...in short in a few years the only people that will be qualified to teach at the USAFA will be civilians.

[10percenttruth]

New Air Force Motto: Aim High...Fly, Fight, Win*

* Terms and conditions apply.

More like: "Aim High, Hit Wherever"

"Integrity Third, Strats before Service, Mediocrity in All We Do"