Appealing a promotion board

[itsokimapilot]

I guess the relevance is, is that I was not getting into a dick measuring contest, I was providing a correct vector. Who said anything about who killed the most people? To quote you, are you drunk or something? Additionally, the relevance is, you are not active duty, you are retired. Commanders do not defer to retirees to make decisions. Retirees are not responsible for command authority. If you are arguing that, I assert that you are doing damage on an internet forum where young officers and enlisted log in to seek advice - however perilous that might be. If your intent is to attempt to persuade USAF officers on an internet forum as a retiree by taking advantage of their lack of experience and building yourself up into some kind of relevant actor based on your dated experience, we have a problem.

Based on everything you've posted in this thread I'm certain you've never been a member of a flying squadron. You really don't seem to know what a young pilot or navigator should do to better their career. You should probably stop talking.

[Guest]

He needs to have his records squared away.

Correct, Sarge. That is on his boss, not on him. We are talking about kids coming right out of the pipeline getting passed over for O-3. Not sure why that fact keeps escaping you.

He does not need to be coddled.

Not sure what you mean by coddled. If you mean he should not be carrefully looked after going into his O-3 promotion board you are so fucking wrong you should choke yourself.

His supervisor should have taken the time to ensure that his subordinate's records are good to go.

That is correct. And on. Failing to do so his chain of command should come alive to right the wrong. That is not coddling. That is doing he right thing.

If his supervisor cannot cut that, he needs to go.

Correct. Are you schizophrenic by any chance?

It is more than being good in the jet.

Here is where you could not be more wrong, Sarge.

For a new kid fresh out of FTU it is ONLY about being good in the jet. That is from his first day at UPT until his MR check ride...which constitutes 99.69% of the time he has spent in the USAF until that point.

Take care of your people.

Correct. C'mon back when you learn what that really means, Sarge.

[Guest]

I guess the relevance is, is that I was not getting into a dick measuring contest.

LOL

Read what you wrote to me again. That is exactly what you were doing with all you "execute the mission" BS.

Who said anything about who killed the most people? To quote you, are you drunk or something?

LOL

What, exactly ,do you think the fucking mission is?

Commanders do not defer to retirees to make decisions.

But they consult. The fact that you don't know what really happens convinces me I am correct in assuming you are an angry Sarge. I'm starting to think you might even be Army.

You don't know too much about command above your experience as a Shirt (which is not command). You should probably go look for some sort of SNCO message board.

I assert that you are doing damage on an internet forum where young officers and enlisted log in to seek advice - however perilous that might be.

LOL

Either show an example of this or STFU.

The only thing I am saying is that you are fucking retarded and no one should listen to a word you are saying.

If your intent is to attempt to persuade USAF officers on an internet forum as a retiree by taking advantage of their lack of experience and building yourself up into some kind of relevant actor based on your dated experience, we have a problem.

That's cute.

Try to stay on target. You have strayed well out of the airspace. Look at what has been said and work on trying to comprehend it.

Take as long as you need but please don't come back until you've found a little SA.

[tac airlifter]

I think the kid had a missing training report according to his posts. He needs to have his records squared away. He does not need to be coddled.

Take care of your people.

Take as long as you need but please don't come back until you've found a little SA.

This guy is an idiot. Your response is spot on, but personally, I'd prefer he not come back after finding SA.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

I think we (and I'm talking about Capts here) owe our new CPs/wingmen/FAIPs a sit down and a good solid rundown of the "records stuff". I know it sounds and feels like pouring a nice tall glass of kool-aid, but most of these guys have no clue how to check their SURF (and make corrections) and to verify that everything in their record is accurate (and present). I know I didn't really figure this stuff out until it would have been too late to correct things before having to meet an O-3 board. I was talking to a brand new FAIP here at PIT the other day and he didn't even know what a SURF was, let along how incredibly important it is to keep it up to date and correct. No foul on him, it's not something you generally are taught unless someone takes the time and shows you.

We can bitch and piss and moan about how broken the system is, and I wholeheartedly agree, but until the system is fixed we owe it to our junior bros to make sure they are in the best position possible to weather the storm.

[xaarman]

In my first "welcome to the squadron" meeting with the CC, he had a print out of my SURF. We went through it line by line and everything that needed to be corrected was highlighted. The more I read these stories, the more I realize how helpful that actually was.

Edited October 22, 2012 by xaarman

[billy pilgrim]

I know it sounds and feels like pouring a nice tall glass of kool-aid, but most of these guys have no clue how to check their SURF (and make corrections) and to verify that everything in their record is accurate (and present). I know I didn't really figure this stuff out until it would have been too late to correct things before having to meet an O-3 board.

I didn't know either until on an *ALFA* tour - but this still makes me sick to my stomach. I have been working for at least two months to fix an error in my records. I ONLY have time becaues I'm not in a CAF unit right now and it's like pulling teeth every time I talk to AFPC (Not my problem / not my job etc...)

Good luck.

*Corrected for CAP-10*

Edited October 23, 2012 by billy pilgrim

[Shiner]

I think we (and I'm talking about Capts here) owe our new CPs/wingmen/FAIPs a sit down and a good solid rundown of the "records stuff". I know it sounds and feels like pouring a nice tall glass of kool-aid, but most of these guys have no clue how to check their SURF (and make corrections) and to verify that everything in their record is accurate (and present). I know I didn't really figure this stuff out until it would have been too late to correct things before having to meet an O-3 board. I was talking to a brand new FAIP here at PIT the other day and he didn't even know what a SURF was, let along how incredibly important it is to keep it up to date and correct. No foul on him, it's not something you generally are taught unless someone takes the time and shows you.

We can bitch and piss and moan about how broken the system is, and I wholeheartedly agree, but until the system is fixed we owe it to our junior bros to make sure they are in the best position possible to weather the storm.

I agree. I am sure we have plenty of exec types on this board, and while it shouldn't fall only on them, they should take an interest. When I was a sq exec, I made sure that the new dudes' records got corrected and updated ASAP. When PRF season was around, we would have a little bit during roll call that highlighted someone's SURF and made fun of all the wrong/stupid shit on it in an attempt to get people to check their records and let us know of any errors. Retarded, maybe, but not getting promoted because of records errors is way worse.

[Danny Noonin]

...we would have a little bit during roll call that highlighted someone's SURF and made fun of all the wrong/stupid shit on it in an attempt to get people to check their records and let us know of any errors.

I think you and I have very different ideas about what "roll call" is supposed to be.

[Shiner]

I think you and I have very different ideas about what "roll call" is supposed to be.

Hahaha well it was the pre-roll call/commander's call portion, but yes, valid.

[Hacker]

If your intent is to attempt to persuade USAF officers on an internet forum as a retiree by taking advantage of their lack of experience and building yourself up into some kind of relevant actor based on your dated experience, we have a problem.

The difference between Rainman and you is, we actually know who Rainman is. Some of us knew him (or knew of him -- the fighter world is a small place) on active duty, and our respect for him and his information (or, even our disagreement with him, depending on who you are) is earned based on his real world experience and reputation. He's not some old internet phantom who is talking about how things were when Carter was in office.

Until you step out of the shadows, none of us can say the same about you -- especially based on some of the things you've said on this forum since joining.

[sweet I'm SOF]

But they consult. The fact that you don't know what really happens convinces me I am correct in assuming you are an angry Sarge.

The first sentence there confirms what I suspected. You are one of those guys. That is a shame. You will undoubtedly receive all of the "consulting" business that you desire here on this forum. Too bad you cannot charge for it. Or maybe you do, it appears that some on here would gladly empty their wallets to read your sage, current, and not at all vague advice.

Total lack of SA on jumping to the conclusion that I am enlisted, not rated, not in command because you do not agree with what I post. However, it is difficult to determine if you really believe that I am a Shirt in the Army, or if that is just rhetoric in an attempt to keep your internet following. Your responses could use some work. Surely someone with 5K forum posts on the internet would comprehend that you are understanding about 50% of what someone types. There is no contextual filler that would occur face to face or even on the phone. Hence, why leadership by email is seldom effective. This all seems lost on you when you reply to my posts.

People on here say that they know you. I do not. If you in fact retired from active duty, thank you for your service. I do not need your explanation of the mission. You have an internet forum here, so go to town with your "consulting" if it is that important to you. In the meantime, I do not think you will be anywhere near where the "Army First Sergeants" are conducting the mission, so no worries.

Finally, you might want to check the name calling and cursing at people on an internet forum. You know, for the sake of keeping your consulting credibility viable.

[sweet I'm SOF]

The difference between Rainman and you is, we actually know who Rainman is. Some of us knew him (or knew of him -- the fighter world is a small place) on active duty, and our respect for him and his information (or, even our disagreement with him, depending on who you are) is earned based on his real world experience and reputation. He's not some old internet phantom who is talking about how things were when Carter was in office.

Until you step out of the shadows, none of us can say the same about you -- especially based on some of the things you've said on this forum since joining.

Tell me what his real world experience is. Otherwise, I would say that he is just as much in the shadows as any other anonymous internet poster. When you say, you actually know who Rainman is, do you mean that you have met him? If the answer to that is "no," then that is a ridiculous argument that you just made. Did you meet him or are you saying that you know someone who met him? I would like to hear about his real world experiences.

[Cap-10]

I didn't know either until on an ALPHA tour...

It's ALFA:

ALO

LIFT (Lead in Fighter Training, now call IFF)

FAC (for anyone that doesn't know what FAC stands for, choke yourself!)

ATC (Air Training Command, now AETC)

The first sentence there confirms what I suspected....

Are you saying that Senior Leaders don't consult?

Every exercise I played in on the ROK (every other month), the CFACC had a Senior Mentor, a retired old guy who had "been there and done that" by sitting in that same chair 6-9 days ago.

I know, because I briefed the two of them, every single day during the MAAP brief.

The active duty guy is most definetly the one that has to make the decision, but if you don't think they are consulting retired guys, you are smoking crack!

Cheers,

Cap-10

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Some people tend to over estimate the anonymity afforded by this forum. The flying world is far too small to blend in. Plenty of people here know me that I know of, and I bet quite a few more know without letting on. Needless to say, showing your ass on this forum is probably a REALLY bad call.

Some people tend to over estimate the anonymity afforded by this forum. The flying world is far too small to blend in. Plenty of people here know me that I know of, and I bet quite a few more know without letting on. Needless to say, showing your ass on this forum is probably a REALLY bad call.

[sweet I'm SOF]

It's ALFA:

ALO

LIFT (Lead in Fighter Training, now call IFF)

FAC (for anyone that doesn't know what FAC stands for, choke yourself!)

ATC (Air Training Command, now AETC)

Are you saying that Senior Leaders don't consult?

Every exercise I played in on the ROK (every other month), the CFACC had a Senior Mentor, a retired old guy who had "been there and done that" by sitting in that same chair 6-9 days ago.

I know, because I briefed the two of them, every single day during the MAAP brief.

The active duty guy is most definetly the one that has to make the decision, but if you don't think they are consulting retired guys, you are smoking crack!

Cheers,

Cap-10

A senior mentor is generally a retired 3 star.

Some people tend to over estimate the anonymity afforded by this forum. The flying world is far too small to blend in. Plenty of people here know me that I know of, and I bet quite a few more know without letting on. Needless to say, showing your ass on this forum is probably a REALLY bad call.

Some people tend to over estimate the anonymity afforded by this forum. The flying world is far too small to blend in. Plenty of people here know me that I know of, and I bet quite a few more know without letting on. Needless to say, showing your ass on this forum is probably a REALLY bad call.

Thank you for the redundancy. Your point?

[Danny Noonin]

Total lack of SA on jumping to the conclusion that I am enlisted, not rated, not in command because you do not agree with what I post.

Really? It is quite clear you are enlisted and not rated, but not because I don't agree with your opinions. It's because you have no grasp of the facts of the rated training pipeline and the officer promotion system.

[matmacwc]

Every Red Flag I've been at has a senior mentor as well.

[17D_guy]

You will undoubtedly receive all of the "consulting" business that you desire here on this forum. Too bad you cannot charge for it. Or maybe you do...

Finally, you might want to check the name calling and cursing at people on an internet forum. You know, for the sake of keeping your consulting credibility viable.

A senior mentor is generally a retired 3 star.

You actually think that this consulting is, in fact, advice for hire? Everyone but you seems to understand what Rainman meant.

The senior mentors, those who fled in droves once they were required to report pay and conflicts of interest, are not being discussed here.

So.. not "senior mentors". We're talking the current Sq CC's who call their old (now retired) CC's, wingmen, and peers for advice and mentoring. Same with Group, Wing, NAF, and perhaps MAJCOM CCs. I've heard very interesting stories about General Officer grooming that Gen Creech did after he retired.

All this "consulting" happens in the Comm Cyber community too.

Once again, your lack of understanding, or even just basic knowledge, is telling.

EDIT: Is there a way to just ignore folks on this forum?

Edited October 22, 2012 by 17D_guy

[Guest one]

Sweet I'm SOF keeps posting stuff but he still hasn't posted what his background is.

Are you rated? Are you active duty? Are you even an officer? I don't really care one way or the other, I just want to understand where you are coming from.

[herkbum]

Why are you so adamant about Rainman's "real world experience", when you will not provide any of your own. Many have been on this board for years and Rainman has provided "tons" of sage advice. Whereas, you are new here and provided very little more than quibbling. Put up or shut up!

[OL Patch]

Just great...now instead of crotchety old retired fart...I have to call Rain a "senior mentor". Back to my Ensure and Depends.

OL Patch

PS...a reputation can be either good or bad...rarely in between sweet. Don't care whether you think you have to meet someone to decide. The wonders of small communities and shared hardship/experiences where your choices and actions always follow you---even when retired......Rain's is better than good unlike one each Viper Pilot discussed in the WTF thread.

[Guest]

I would say that he is just as much in the shadows as any other anonymous internet poster.

LOL

I'm super anonymous.

Pssst - Sarge/PYB, put your dick away. It is clear that no one here is interested in seeing it.

This thread needs to get back on track or get locked down. I will stop feeding the troll. We all should.

Too bad, there was some decent advice and awareness happening in this thread. I am totally blown away to hear that aviators fresh out of FTU just got passed over for O-3 and I learned it here. I don't think I am alone. I am sorry someone took this thread into the container.

(An IP address check would clear up a few things)

Just great...now instead of crotchety old retired fart...I have to call Rain a "senior mentor".

Senior something!

Bro is fine.

[Cap-10]

A senior mentor is generally a retired 3 star.

The CFACC on the ROK is a 3 star...his senior mentor is normally a prior CFACC, hence my statement of a retired guy that sat in that same seat 6-9 days ago (reading comprehension implies a former CFACC).

Thanks for confirming what I just posted.

Cheers,

Cap-10

[Hacker]

Tell me what his real world experience is.

A-10 WIC IP, retired O-5 within the last couple years. Opening shots of OIF and OEF vet. Extremely well known with lots of cred in the A-10 community before he retired.

Did you meet him or are you saying that you know someone who met him?

He's world renowned in the Hog community, even now after he's gone. Not personally met him (I'm a Strike Eagle guy -- we don't run in overlapping circles), but plenty of squadronmates of mine during two different assignments and whose opinions I highly trust, who also flew Hogs with him, have enormous respect for him. I've spoken to him several times when he was still on AD about some common experiences we had during Shock and Awe. He's definitely a real person with real-world combat airpower experience (the kind that involves killing people and getting shot back at), technical and tactical credibility, and leadership experience.

Go ahead with your quals now -- otherwise, can it.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Hacker