Incentive Rides for AFROTC Cadets

[Infamous]

and cadets aren't worth it.

haha

Are there any hot, female cadets in your Detachment?

isn't that a double negative?

Edited April 6, 2012 by Infamous

[matmacwc]

Fresno has at least 1 D model, go there and tell them "Moonbeam" sent you, they'll get right on it.

[HuggyU2]

With very few exceptions, those picked for cadet orientation sorties are vetted by their ROTC staff. If you want the ride, first you need to get them to back you. Then you need to find a unit that will fly you. And THAT can be very 'personality' driven. Just because that Wing did it 3 years ago means nothing: new people are there and may not really want to make the effort since they are already working a 10+ hour day trying to keep their nose above the waterline.

Bottom line: chances are about 1 in 200 that you will get an ort sortie in a single-seat-type fighter/trainer.

Does the AF still do the "ATP" or "3rd Lieutenant Program"? When I went through it, there were some great options... and I flew quite a bit.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Huggyu2

[mb1685]

A PDT or base visit is your best bet. I got a ride on a KC-135 during my PDT to Davis-Monthan AFB in 2008. I got to watch them refuel F-16s from the boom station - it was pretty sweet. Also got to watch A-10s strafe targets at the Goldwater Range. Fun stuff!

[Sketch]

A PDT or base visit is your best bet. I got a ride on a KC-135 during my PDT to Davis-Monthan AFB in 2008. I got to watch them refuel F-16s from the boom station - it was pretty sweet. Also got to watch A-10s strafe targets at the Goldwater Range. Fun stuff!

Also if you're trying to get rides during a PDT make sure you give them atleast 2-3 months notice. My det went to visit Nellis and they tried to schedule us F-15 rides but it wasn't possible due to it being last minute. They said if the paperwork had been put in a few months prior it most likely would've happened. Not saying its guaranteed (it never is) but it definitely helps your chances.

[yerfer]

What Brabus said.

When I was a cadet things were different and actually changed while in the process. Being that Luke was 45 minutes away from school cadets were scoring rides in empty seats. It wasn't something just handed out to all cadets. Cadets who were interested had to meet specific criteria.

Basically, express interest you want a ride when it is presented. You will need a chamber card to go above 18,000. Cadets who wanted the card had to drive out of pocket to Holloman AFB in NM to get this done. Once we had the card we also had to obtain a basic flight physical on base with a flight surgeon. As mentioned, things changed while I was a cadet. Luke had a change of command and they decided to add a few things like, passing DoDmerb and clearance (because you were going along for training rides, not incentive). Basically, you were just tagging a long for a ride. You sit in the back seat and shut up so the pilots can focus on their missions.

It is a niche thing to certain DETs. That's just the way it is. Some cadets get hooked up, some don't. If you don't, apply for pilot and you'll get to fly something eventually.

As for me, my name was next on the list for my ride and two days before going up a student in the 62nd crashed and rides were shut down for a while. The student was a great member of this forum.

Do NOT call a squadron.

[Sketch]

I have a question and it might sound stupid so if it is please disregard.

Obviously I would never "ask" for a ride as a cadet, especially considering I'm not even contracted yet. However, I have a buddy whos enlisted (mx grp) who won an incentive ride in t-38s for being top performer of the quarter. He suggested that I find out if we'd be able to go up in the same flight as a 2 ship (him in 1 jet me in the other). I was just wondering if this would be possible? If so how would I go about finding out what the requirements are? BTW the T-38s are from an operational squadron, not a FTS.

EDIT: Cnat spll gewd

Edited August 17, 2012 by Justanothercadet

[Danny Noonin]

I have a question and it might sound stupid so if it is please disregard.

Obviously I would never "ask" for a ride as a cadet, especially considering I'm not even contracted yet. However, I have a buddy whos enlisted (mx grp) who won an incentive ride in t-38s for being top performer of the quarter. He suggested that I find out if we'd be able to go up in the same flight as a 2 ship (him in 1 jet me in the other). I was just wondering if this would be possible? If so how would I go about finding out what the requirements are? BTW the T-38s are from an operational squadron, not a FTS.

EDIT: Cnat spll gewd

So you don't want to ask for a ride in general, but you do want to ask to be in a specific formation? How can you accomplish the second without accomplishing the first? I don't think you're making any sense here. Am I missing something?

[Sketch]

So you don't want to ask for a ride in general, but you do want to ask to be in a specific formation? How can you accomplish the second without accomplishing the first? I don't think you're making any sense here. Am I missing something?

Heres the thing - my buddy was the one who was going to "ask" ops group for a ride for me (it makes more sense for him to do it IMHO) but that doesn't mean that I can't find out about the requirements. Asking a pilot if you need a chamber card/clearance to fly with them isn't asking for a ride (and I have asked that same info elsewhere).

My questions for the experts here is can that even be feasibly scheduled and are the type of rides we would take different i.e. incentive vs. orientation and therefore not feasible for the same flight or can that be waived?

Believe me if it were anywhere else I wouldn't be asking because I haven't earned a ride and there are plenty of people who did earn them that have been waiting forever (my buddy's been on the incentive ride list for over 2 years). The only reason I'm asking is because he wants it, not because I want one.

[Danny Noonin]

The only reason I'm asking is because he wants it, not because I want one.

You're fucking kidding me, right?

You don't even want to fly, but you want to figure out a way for a T-38 squadron to schedule--and the taxpayers to fund--what would need to be a dedicated sortie for you (to pair up with your buddy's incentive)? And all this so he can look over and see the same fucking generic visor and O2 mask he would see on anyone else? UFB.

You need to get your bullshit story straight if you do actually want to fly. If you don't want to fly, then cut this shit out now because--I'm totally serious here-- no one should have to waste their valuable time on you for such a creepy reason as "your buddy" wants you to fly next to him.

But to answer your question...cadets get fam flights. your bud would get an incentive flight. They are technically different. Incentives are also technically supposed to be single ship, although that gets ignored semi-frequently. Both types require a flight surgeon checkout and egress training. Chamber cards are only applicable if you go over 18K--doubtful they put your mx bud through that for an incentive so if by some fucking ridiculous miracle you did fly in the same formation it would theoretically be N/A for you too.

Your "buddy" can look all this stuff up in the regs himself, by the way. So if it's true that this is all for him (cringe) then make him do the fucking work to look it up.

[Sketch]

You're ######ing kidding me, right?

You don't even want to fly, but you want to figure out a way for a T-38 squadron to schedule--and the taxpayers to fund--what would need to be a dedicated sortie for you (to pair up with your buddy's incentive)? And all this so he can look over and see the same ######ing generic visor and O2 mask he would see on anyone else? UFB.

You need to get your bullshit story straight if you do actually want to fly. If you don't want to fly, then cut this shit out now because--I'm totally serious here-- no one should have to waste their valuable time on you for such a creepy reason as "your buddy" wants you to fly next to him.

Your "buddy" can look all this stuff up in the regs himself, by the way. So if it's true that this is all for him (cringe) then make him do the ######ing work to look it up.

Wow... that came off completely wrong. Let me try again.

I'd love to fly in a T-38, I think it would be an incredible experience and would probably give me a really good idea about what AF flying is like. However, as a cadet I don't want to jump in front of the line and fly before any of the active duty/VIPs who have actually earned them. I also don't want to be a burden to any OSS or FS and if trying to organize the flight or me sitting in the back seat with a sterile cockpit the entire hop would do that then forget it.

The mx buddy I have who actually did earn one suggested that I found out if we could fly together in the same 2-ship, which is why I'm asking for info. He thought it would be really cool and I agreed, but I straight up told him that I wouldn't ask because cadets shouldn't do that but if he could organize it through ops group then I would find out the requirements and get them done. Hes currently deployed and won't be able to find out for some time.

Again this is only assuming minimum effort on the part of the OSS schedulers/pilots because their job is far more important than flying cadets around. We only want to fly 2 ship if they could fit us into their schedule, not the other way around.

Sorry for not being clear.

But to answer your question...cadets get fam flights. your bud would get an incentive flight. They are technically different. Incentives are also technically supposed to be single ship, although that gets ignored semi-frequently. Both types require a flight surgeon checkout and egress training. Chamber cards are only applicable if you go over 18K--doubtful they put your mx bud through that for an incentive so if by some ######ing ridiculous miracle you did fly in the same formation it would theoretically be N/A for you too.

This pretty much answers it, I'll let him know.

[Danny Noonin]

Pile on...

Cadets get "fam" flights so as to be "non-interference", i.e. you are merely sandbagging on an actual training sortie that would fly anyway and you are not supposed to be a LIMFAC...so if the airspace is best over water, you need water survival, if the mission requires above 18k, then you need a chamber card, if you're puking, too bad so sad here comes 9G again, so turn off the intercom, drop your mask and don't even think about making the crew chief clean up your chunks...by all this I mean they don't want to have to alter missions to accommodate your lack of qualifications/training or for your comfort. They're supposed to be relatively painless on squadrons.

Incentives, however, are the exact opposite. They are supposed to be sorties dedicated to the person in the backseat. They are not supposed to be training sorties at all. If the backseater wants to do nothing but pull Gs and aileron rolls, fine it's his sortie. If all he wants to do is sight see because he feels airsick, fine it's his sortie. This is why it takes so long for people to get scheduled for their incentive sorties...they have to dedicate an entire sortie just to that guy in back and give up a training line to do it. Squadrons understandably dont want to do that very often. So it's not even close to the same concept as the fam where a real training mission is happening and the dude in back is just along for the ride.

Having said all of that, fams and incentives--in reality--can look an awful lot alike and may or may not have happened in the past within the same formation. but that's not typical at all since they truly don't mesh well--by design.

So if you DO want to fly (like I said get your fucking story straight) then man up and try. Fam flights are not the same as incentives so you wouldn't be jumping in front of incentive riders in line. But it's unlikely you'll be in the same 2 ship as your little boyfriend. And I would not even ask the question if I were you.

[matmacwc]

Where's Toro on this subject? I hear he is an expert.

[HuggyU2]

Incentives are also technically supposed to be single ship, although that gets ignored semi-frequently.

This is incorrect. Two-ship is fine,... it's not a rule that is "ignored". If it was a rule, we wouldn't do it.

Fam flights are not the same as incentives so you wouldn't be jumping in front of incentive riders in line.

While this might be a good "generality", this really depends on where the orientation flight is taking place. For example, this is not an accurate statement in our wing.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Huggyu2

[Sketch]

Does anyone know where I can find the official paperwork that AFROTC Det Commanders have to sign to allow Cadets to participate in fam/incentive flights?

Edited for clarity.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Justanothercadet

[Sketch]

Anyone? Bueller?

[RTB]

AFI 11-401, ACC SUPP if you want to fly ACC aircraft. Table 2.1. Not sure the line number. Says Wing CC is approval level. Just need your det to request the flight, usually with OSS OSO. Easy.

[Sketch]

AFI 11-401, ACC SUPP if you want to fly ACC aircraft. Table 2.1. Not sure the line number. Says Wing CC is approval level. Just need your det to request the flight, usually with OSS OSO. Easy.

Thanks alot! I actually got an offer to fly which is why I was asking. Their wing currently isn't doing incentive rides per the WG/CC but my POC said I should get the process started now for when that policy gets lifted.

[brabus]

Good luck in this fiscal environment...probably will happen again someday, but doubtful any time in the near future (i.e. at least this next year). Hell, we can't even give fam rides to MX, and they're by far the most deserving ones. Damn shame considering empty backseats fly pretty much daily. Along with what RTB said, try to keep in contact with someone in OSS/OSO in case the policy gets lifted.

[matmacwc]

Thanks alot! I actually got an offer to fly which is why I was asking. Their wing currently isn't doing incentive rides per the WG/CC but my POC said I should get the process started now for when that policy gets lifted.

Oh dear, you were on a roll.

The Wing isn't doing incentive rides due to AF policy.

[Sketch]

Oh dear, you were on a roll.

The Wing isn't doing incentive rides due to AF policy.

Yeah, they told me it was the Wing King's directive, but that makes sense. Its a shame since MX/award winners should fly as often as possible. Whats even worse is they fly with too many empty backseats anyway because Maintenance Group doesn't send them enough requests. Granted I mentioned that I don't want to cut any lines when I was offered the ride and that was the answer I got. I'm sure its different with other wings.

[12xu2a3x3]

our unit was going to give one to an rotc cadet but he had a problem with his harness and the second go needed the d for a spare. the part of me that loves flying couldn't help but feel bad for him but the part that busted my ass to make that line could care less.

Edited February 17, 2016 by 12xu2a3x3
grammar

[Toro]

On 2/17/2016 at 7:57 PM, 12xu2a3x3 said:

our unit was going to give one to an rotc cadet but he had a problem with his harness and the second go needed the d for a spare. the part of me that loves flying couldn't help but feel bad for him but the part that busted my ass to make that line could care less.

Why? They're different lines.

On 8/21/2012 at 0:13 PM, matmacwc said:

Where's Toro on this subject? I hear he is an expert.

Damn - how did I miss this the first time around?  No incentive rides...for any cadets....ever.

[matmacwc]

We need the email exchange.

[M2]

23 hours ago, matmacwc said:

We need the email exchange.

I still have the 69-page (yep, not making that up!) "official" copy from an email over nine years ago (my, how time flies!); but it's Toro's decision as to whether he wants to post it up for public consumption...