I couldn't agree more. I hate when people try to use kids as leverage to try to pry money out of my wallet either directly or indirectly. If I liked kids, I would have some. Unfortunately, the only thing I like less than the prospect of my own kids is YOUR kids.

How's about instead of pumping more money into the daycare, they roll up a few pennies and fix the bridge to the hunting area on base that has been washed out for several years, with no funds to fix it?

I think most officers don't understand the reality of the average elisted family. Most young familes in the Air Force have either both parents in the Air Force or one in the Air Force and another employed elsewhere. Since we have decided to pay our enlisted kids somewhere at or below the poverty level (hence the second working parent), providing some form of child care for working parents is mission required. The fact is that your bridge doesn't keep airplanes turning. Having an organization that supports young families does. Nobody is prying money out of your hands. Instead, we're taking the profits from the company store and applying it to the areas that would best improve the overall base quality of life. Could the store be better? Yes. Are the laws that govern military construction asinine? Absolutely. Is it wise that AAFES and DECA are legally seperated? Probably not. Is accessesable and affordable child care a mission requirement for a base? Definately.

I think most officers don't understand the reality of the average elisted family. Most young familes in the Air Force have either both parents in the Air Force or one in the Air Force and another employed elsewhere. Since we have decided to pay our enlisted kids somewhere at or below the poverty level (hence the second working parent), providing some form of child care for working parents is mission required. The fact is that your bridge doesn't keep airplanes turning. Having an organization that supports young families does. Nobody is prying money out of your hands. Instead, we're taking the profits from the company store and applying it to the areas that would best improve the overall base quality of life. Could the store be better? Yes. Are the laws that govern military construction asinine? Absolutely. Is it wise that AAFES and DECA are legally seperated? Probably not. Is accessesable and affordable child care a mission requirement for a base? Definately.

That's fine, and I am not an idiot-- I know that a guy is going to be NMC if he's worried about his kids; however, I think the daycare should be self sufficient. One person's financial choice (and anyone who doesn't think having kids is a financial choice probably should not be reproducing in the first place) is not my financial burden.

If they're going to blow smoke in our direction with regard to where the profits from the BX go to, they should at least make it fair. I understand that only a small percentage of base residents use the hunting area, probably a smaller percentage that who use the daycare, but I know a LOT more people use other outdoor rec services, and would probably appreciate some better equipment from time to time if the funding were ever there. A 99%/1% disbursement plan where the daycare gets almost every penny of available funds isn't right either.

Amazing how the Jr enlisted, despite supposedly being paid poverty level wages, manage to have 2 cars, 2 cell phones, satellite TV, Internet, and all the other necessities. Maybe that's why both parents work. The BX isn't supplementing their low pay, it's subsidizing their stupid spending habits.

I thought AAFES is 'for profit' and DECA essentially was at cost plus surcharge (to support renovations and the smaller commissaries), hence the separation.

I use the commissary quite a bit (probably 2/3), and find its usually cheaper to buy there.

...providing some form of child care for working parents is mission required. The fact is that your bridge doesn't keep airplanes turning. Having an organization that supports young families does.

Your definitions of "mission essential" and "what turns airplanes" sicken me.

Amazing how the Jr enlisted, despite supposedly being paid poverty level wages, manage to have 2 cars, 2 cell phones, satellite TV, Internet, and all the other necessities. Maybe that's why both parents work. The BX isn't supplementing their low pay, it's subsidizing their stupid spending habits.

Shack.

I think most officers don't understand the reality of the average elisted family. Most young familes in the Air Force have either both parents in the Air Force or one in the Air Force and another employed elsewhere. Since we have decided to pay our enlisted kids somewhere at or below the poverty level (hence the second working parent), providing some form of child care for working parents is mission required. The fact is that your bridge doesn't keep airplanes turning. Having an organization that supports young families does. Nobody is prying money out of your hands. Instead, we're taking the profits from the company store and applying it to the areas that would best improve the overall base quality of life. Could the store be better? Yes. Are the laws that govern military construction asinine? Absolutely. Is it wise that AAFES and DECA are legally seperated? Probably not. Is accessesable and affordable child care a mission requirement for a base? Definately.

Do we have to keep making statements in the form of a question? You bet!

Amazing how the Jr enlisted, despite supposedly being paid poverty level wages, manage to have 2 cars, 2 cell phones, satellite TV, Internet, and all the other necessities. Maybe that's why both parents work. The BX isn't supplementing their low pay, it's subsidizing their stupid spending habits.

"3"

I am all for getting our enlisted better pay so they aren't be subsidized by the officers and federal poverty programs. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I will forgo a pay raise at the end of the year if we can redirect that money to our enlisted folks.

Amazing how the Jr enlisted, despite supposedly being paid poverty level wages, manage to have 2 cars, 2 cell phones, satellite TV, Internet, and all the other necessities. Maybe that's why both parents work. The BX isn't supplementing their low pay, it's subsidizing their stupid spending habits.

Don't forget 6 kids and 500 xbox games.

I'm sensing some hostility here...

I'm sensing some hostility here...

Same kind of hostility as when the slug in front of you at walmart buys a bunch of groceries with a food stamp card, and once that transaction is complete loads up the checkout belt with xbox games, beer, and various other stuff that should be a VERY low priority when you're on food stamps.

Do I equate junior Es with welfare leeches? Of course not, they actually work (damn hard most of the time) for the peanuts they earn; however, if they're going to cry poor and expect me (and other Os and senior Es) to subsidize them, they most likely shouldn't be driving their brand new car with custom wheels and $5000 stereo to work.

"3"

I am all for getting our enlisted better pay so they aren't be subsidized by the officers and federal poverty programs. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I will forgo a pay raise at the end of the year if we can redirect that money to our enlisted folks.

Fuck that. I'm all for everyone in the AF getting some financial education on how to reduce their spending, not redirecting money towards the enlisted folks so they can buy more shit.

That's funny. When I was a broke-ass A1C, financial planning classes were a mandatory part of FTAC. It wasn't all that long ago. The info/resources are out there, but whether or not people take advantage of them is another story.

Plenty of Os and NCOs out there living paycheck to paycheck, with houses/cars they can't afford, and multiple maxed out credit cards.

www.daveramsey.com

Plenty of Os and NCOs out there living paycheck to paycheck, with houses/cars they can't afford, and multiple maxed out credit cards.

www.daveramsey.com

Point is, if you max out your credit cards and take on two car loans and a huge mortgage, don't expect me to subsidize you with cheap childcare.

One wonders if we could meet the childcare requirement more cheaply by just adding a "basic allowance for children" to the paycheck and closing the CDC.

Plenty of Os and NCOs out there living paycheck to paycheck, with houses/cars they can't afford, and multiple maxed out credit cards.

www.daveramsey.com

Thoughts on putting on a FPU on base for individuals? I know a few new LT's who could use it after they buy the ludicrous new trucks.

Point is, if you max out your credit cards and take on two car loans and a huge mortgage, don't expect me to subsidize you with cheap childcare.

One wonders if we could meet the childcare requirement more cheaply by just adding a "basic allowance for children" to the paycheck and closing the CDC.

My point is if you CHOOSE to have kids, don't expect me (or anyone else) to subsidize your financial choice. That's like saying we should add a basic allowance for a new car to the paycheck. The return on investment may be different, but having a kid is no less of a financial choice than buying a car, and the same considerations should apply, chief among them being "CAN I AFFORD TO MAKE THIS CHOICE?" Unfortunately people have this blinding desire to have a few kids, and then walk around hat in hand expecting everyone else to cover them.

Thoughts on putting on a FPU on base for individuals? I know a few new LT's who could use it after they buy the ludicrous new trucks.

They have started one geared towards college students which is the perfect target audience in my opinion. Commissioning sources, hell even basic training or FTAC-equivalents should incorporate it into the latter parts of their curriculums in my opinion.

"Here is what you do with money right now while you don't have much, and here is what you do in a few months when you are actually making some.... Oh by the way, you do not NEED a car payment."

Man I wish someone had told me that when I was 21.

Thoughts on putting on a FPU on base for individuals? I know a few new LT's who could use it after they buy the ludicrous new trucks.

Damn it - you beat me to it.

My point is if you CHOOSE to have kids, don't expect me (or anyone else) to subsidize your financial choice. That's like saying we should add a basic allowance for a new car to the paycheck. The return on investment may be different, but having a kid is no less of a financial choice than buying a car, and the same considerations should apply, chief among them being "CAN I AFFORD TO MAKE THIS CHOICE?" Unfortunately people have this blinding desire to have a few kids, and then walk around hat in hand expecting everyone else to cover them.

Yeah, I think we're sort of on the same page here...although let's face it, not all kids are planned out.

I'm not for subsidizing other folks' bad financial choices, but neither am I against lending a hand to our enlisted guys who are scraping by on the same paycheck they could be earning at McDonald's, for longer hours and less thanks.

One wonders if we could meet the childcare requirement more cheaply by just adding a "basic allowance for children" to the paycheck and closing the CDC

We already give higher BAH, COLA, etc. for "with dependents." People can choose to use that extra money wisely or they can get a bigger house they don't need. Either way, there's enough of that already and we don't need any more extras. People just need to be responsible.

My point is if you CHOOSE to have kids

It's not always a choice dude. Not saying there's not some merit to what you said based on SOME people, but your statement does not apply to everyone with kids.

It's not always a choice dude.

False.

*Standing by for negative replies*

Thoughts on putting on a FPU on base for individuals? I know a few new LT's who could use it after they buy the ludicrous new trucks.

I tried but the red tape nazi's thought it would compete with the financial planning classes at the family support center.

Damn it - you beat me to it.

Dayam

I tried but the red tape nazi's thought it would compete with the financial planning classes at the family support center.

We have a Captain in my SQ that has a masters degree in financial planning and was told she was not allowed to host a financial planning class...same reason.