Viper (F-16) Q&A

[Guest Dirt Beater]

Is is standard to have the limiter "set" at 9 G? Can you even "set" the thing? If so, could you set it for something like 3 or 4 G, say for precision in a maneuver or something like that? Always been curious about the electric jet, thanks.

[Guest F16PilotMD]

The "limiter" is a term used to describe the maximum G force or pitch up command the flight control computer will give you based upon your current flight conditions. 9Gs is the nominal maximum if you have the energy to attain it. If you're at 130kts, it won't give it to you...the jet physically can't do it. So, when you pull back as hard as you can, you only get a little...you're "on the limiter". The idea is you can't (almost) stall the jet by simply continuing to pull aft stick.

[Guest C5Heavy]

On another note, does someone have some datasheet on the F-16 like approach speed, touchdown speed, rotation speed etc?

[Guest F16PilotMD]

The limiter is no shortcoming as far as I'm concerned. You're on the edge of a departure anyway so it isn't "limiting" your performance much. I suppose if it were get gunned or jink yourself into a departure (seen it done) I would chose the departure...which you can still do in the Viper by "assaulting" two limiters at once (i.e.: pitch & roll). B-course BFM is spent on the limiter. By the time you can fly the jet well, you are on the limiter very little.

[Beaver]

The G limiter part of it is not as big a factor as the AOA limit is. It sucks in a low speed fight to not have the ability to move the nose due to the limiter. However, I'll try to combat that by not getting in a low speed fight. The limiter is no problem in a stack or over the top maneuver. With my mighty GE-129 powered block 50 I'm going straight up, baby!! Put your nose up there if you can, but when you fall out of the sky you are mine.

And to answer the original question, no the G-limiter can not be set.

[Guest Dirt Beater]

Beaver,

In the viper limiter thread, you mentioned going vertical in your "GE-129 powered Block 50" Whats the heaviest you can be and still pull something like that off? How often is it that vipers in general exploit their thrust-weight by taking the fight into the vertical? Do you see the albino guys doing it very often? I realize that's sort of scattered and random, but I appreciate any input!

[Beaver]

The closest thing we can do to overide the computer is the Manual Pitch Overide switch. In the event of an out of control situation, you can press the MPO switch which kicks the tail down about another foot. This is to get the nose pointed straight downhill so you can start picking up flying airspeed. The only time I could even think of using that tactically would be a negative G guns jink, which is a training rule violation.

[Beaver]

We don't take the fight vertically as much as the Hornet guys do, because we don't really want to get slow. It's generally not my gameplan going into a fight. But if you get into a stack there isn't much else you can do.

Single bag jets are good for BFM, but 2 baggers get to be piggish when we add the HTS and the ECM pods and bomb suspension equipment.

To answer the albino question: I don't know. I've never flown BFM against the light grays.

[Guest Gator]

Where do UPT grads go to RTU for the F-16?

[Hacker]

There have been several guys passing through IFF recently who are active duty, yet are attending FTU at Springfield ANGB.

At the moment Luke is jam-packed full of students. So full, actually, that previously experienced Viper drivers looking to get back through a TX course are having trouble finding a spot.

[Guest F16PilotMD]

Luke, Springfield ANG, Kelly ANG, Tucson ANG

[Guest F16Driver]

I went to Springfield, OH, for F-16 training. 1 class per year and about 10 students. It was the most fun I've had in my career so far. I might go back instruct there someday. It is 10-12 nm east of Wright Patt. Awesome location and awesome dudes to fly with. I love the Guard!!!

[Guest joelovuola]

If an F-16 has a flame-out at altitude and can't get relit is the only option to eject? I've heard that the flight controls can be powered by a back-up APU running on hydrazine? How long does this run? What is the glide ratio on an F-16?

[BFM this]

Here's an interesting one: stuck throttle (Mil), night, bad wx...

http://www.codeonemagazine.com/f16/semper_viper/viper00.html

Here's HUD video complete with (unfortunately) cnn commentary

http://www.cnn.com/US/9606/29/spectacular.landing/

[Beaver]

Yes, we have an emergency power unit that runs on hydrazine. Our glide ratio is about 7 miles for 5000'. We practice flame out approaches all the time. If we are close enough to glide to an airfield, we can land.

[Guest Luke]

Gotta love the hydrazine, and the epu firings. (coming from a fuel shop guy). EPU firings arent that bad, but Hydrazine leaks SUCK!!!!! Try being out in the 110 degree heat with a air pack on your back, a full face mask for air, and a head to toe fully enclosed suit like on outbreak mopping that crap up. Let me tell you, thats what you call a good time!! you can practically swim in your suit when you are done.

[Guest Moody Bound]

Can I get the word on the lifestyle of a Viper Driver? Training, TDYs, missions, drops into UPT, etc. I have read a lot, but what to hear it from the experts. I am UPT bound, have a family, and just trying to figure out which airframe is for me. The Viper intrigues me and I really want to be a part of that community.

Thanks

[scoobs]

This is a long post but very informative.

Deployment rate with the war: We participate in the AEF cycle so it is very predictable. The AEF cycle is currently being modified. It used to be that we are at home for 12 months and then we deploy for 3 months. That is what I just got done with. We were deployed from April-June 2004. Prior to that (last year) we were "on call" to deploy because the initial war was kicking off but then Turkey said no troops in our country and so we stayed in Aviano and watched everything from CNN. They have modified the AEF cycle a little. Now we are at home for 16 months and we deploy for 4 months. So it's a 20 month cycle instead of the old 15 month cycle. We do not deploy outside our cycle so you know exactly when you'll go to the desert every year. However, we still go on training TDY's, so we aren't necessarily "home" for 15 months straight. But we go to some cool places. In my 3 years at Aviano I've gone to Maple Flag, Canada; shot AIM-120s at Tyndal WSEP; spent 2 months in Sardinia, Italy and got to fly a German F-4; flew a Mig-21 during a 1 week trip to Croatia; spent 2 weeks in Konya, Turkey; 2 Red Flags; 2 weeks in Lakenheath, England; 2 weeks in Zaragosa, Spain; 1 week 24 hour patrol CAP over Prague (while the presidents were meeting); and a few other small trips.

How do you like Europe and the bases: Europe is great because we can go on really cool trips to places that other Viper bases can't (like I mentioned above). The traveling opportunity is sweet. The single guys go on lots of trips (Moscow, St Petersberg, Poland, Pampalona Spain, etc...). My wife and I have visited Scotland, French Riviera, Oktoberfest at Munich, Croatia coast, Austria in the Winter and Summer, skiing on Mannerhorn in Switzerland, Salzburg, Cinque Terra, Florence, Rome. And we didn't travel as much as some couples managed to do.

Typical Day flying:

Show up about 1 hour prior to Mass Brief (unless I need to do more mission planning). Mass Brief is 2.5 hours prior to takeoff. We brief for about an hour. Step, Start, Taxi, Arm Up takes about an hour. Most local sorties are between 1.0 and 1.5 hours. After landing is about 30 min. Tape assessment is about 45 min. Then debried can last 1-3 hours. If it's an upgrade ride then it will be longer. A CT debried can be real short.

Then you have to see if you're flying the next day. If so then you need to start mission planning for the next day. So the flying part takes about 6-9 hours + the mission planning time (0.5 - 2.0 hours). These are average times and usually you can cut down on a lot of it if you're smart about time management. In addition to the flying duties you try to squeeze in some non-flying duties (email, etc...) so that you stay on top of stuff.

Typical Day not flying:

Depends on your job. I started out as a scheduler and it wasn't too bad but some people hate to be schedulers. Other shops include Training, Weapons, Stan/Eval, Mobility, Life Support, Safety. And if you're a LT then you'll have SNACKO responsibilities (snack bar, party planning, cleanup, beer purchasing, squadron cleanup, etc...). If I'm not flying then I'll usually spend about 8-10 hours at work. I shoot for 8 hours but sometimes you get real-time tasking and you have to complete small jobs before you can leave so you find yourself leaving at about the 10 hour mark. The only time I stay longer than 10 hours is if I also have to fly that day OR if I'm double or triple turning (2 or 3 sorties in one day) and of course those are going to be long days. Non-Flying duties usually involve lots of email, paper pushing, reading and adhering to Regs, studying for an upgrade or for self improvement, attending academics, etc... I could get real specific into the jobs of each Shop but I'm not sure if that's what you want.

If someone tells you that they hate flying fighters because they barely fly and spend 12+ hours at work 6 days a week then my response to that is they need to get better time management. I definately do not neglect my life outside flying so I make it a priority to NOT do work at home and to NOT do work on a weekend. There are very rare exceptions to this (such as upgrade rides that I need to prepare) but I am definately satisfied with the fighter lifestyle. The one caveot, I think it is fairly high-paced so I seldom have time to just vegitate in front of the TV or do other things that waste time but are relaxing. I do, however, have time to workout at least 4+ times a week, go camping or rock climbing on the weekends, watch a movie every once in a while, leave work at 3 and go down to the beach for the afternoon, read magazines or books for fun, plus other random hobbies. There are some people who don't have a life outside of flying but I'm definately not one of them. It's all about prioritizing.

Hope this answers the rest of your questions. I tried to be as detailed as I thought necessary.

[ 13. October 2004, 05:46: Message edited by: Toro ]

[Guest Slye]

If given a choice, do you think going to an ANG F-16 FTU would be better than an AD FTU? The guard FTUs (Springfield, Kelly) seem like they may be slightly more relaxed than their AD counterpart, but Luke may be easier to train at, seeing as though they've got more flying going on there. I'm assuming their syllabi, durations of training, and qualifications received are the same. Any opinions on which may be a better experience?

Also, what time of the year would be best for survival school? I know the winter holds obvious challenges, but the other seasons may also have their downsides. Thanks!

[Beaver]

Their syllabi aren't the same. If you go through the guard you will graduate NVG and TGP qualified. At Luke it depends on which squadron you go through.

As far as being relaxed, I really enjoyed RTU at Luke. It's not like pilot training. The IPs treat you like fighter pilots. Not very good fighter pilots, but none the less.

[Guest CBStud]

Anyone know what the Common Conversion changes in the cockpit. One of our Lockheed guys showed us a picture of what he said was a CCIP jet but I had my doubts(I think it was the Blk 60). It had 2 large MFD's, where the current ones are, that take up the whole panel and a center MFD as well which replaced the ADI, HSI, VVI etc. Is this really the CCIP jet? It looks bada$$ to be true :D .

[Guest FCI]

CCIP is a way of making the Block 40/42 and Block 50/52 -16s more alike in their capabilities and avionics. It also gives the Block 50/52 SEAD jets the ability to perform the DEAD mission also.

By the time CCIP is complete, Block 40/42/50/52 jets will have two color MFD's, an electronic HSI, new core computers, an advanced interrogator/transponder, ablilty to carry the Sniper XR pod, the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System along with a few other small upgrades.

The cockipit your buddy showed you is of the Block 50+/60. The Air Force won't get that.

[Guest CrewDawg1]

I was wondering if anyone had some good sites or info. on the Lantirn Pods, ECM pods, and the F-16 RWR. I am doing a group project for an avionics class, I have checked www.fas.org and have yet to find anything more than an overview. Any info. would help, thanks.

[ClearedHot]

F-16 Systems Info Site

[ 13. April 2005, 17:37: Message edited by: Clearedhot ]

[Guest CrewDawg1]

Thanks for the links Clearedhot, but the second one isn't working.

Tailspin, I asked some of our pilots at the base but they said they really can't give me much but that jane's had really good info. I haven't had much luck with that website. Again thanks for the replies.