PT shirts now req'd to be tucked in during PT

[Toasty]

Has anyone else heard of this happening yet? Just got word that PT shirts are now required to be tucked in at all times, including during PT (which is absolutely ridiculous!). Who makes these rules?

[GearMonkey]

Thanks Blue, as usual you've taken something decent and increased the suck factor dramatically.

I think the problem here is that people think of it as a PT "uniform" rather than PT "gear". Since it is a "uniform" we have to look good and standardized in it. While it wasn't particularly comfortable or well designed as workout "gear" it served a purpose. The way I see it the only time the tuck should be required is during a formation roll-call at the start of unit PT. Before and after this, while assembling for the event and actually working out, it should be up to the user as to how he/she wears the PTs. If the idea really is physical fitness then let people wear the PTs in the way that best promotes their fitness. For most this would likely be shirt out.

It would be nice if leadership could see that most of the time PTs are worn in the AOR because they are the most comfortable thing allowed and because they are the closest to civilian clothing. Perhaps as a reward for all our hard work in unpleasent places year after year after year they could find it in their hearts to cut us a little slack. Clearly allowing untucked shirts hasn't hurt the war effort for the last eight years and I doubt it will make the difference anytime soon.

Congrats to the Shoes on this one. Now they can move on to standardizing ABU sleeve roll by calendar date and other worthy activities.

Tuck you Big Blue.

[GKinnear]

Here's the messgae for those who didn't see and had to hear about it second hand. I highlighted the section about being tucked in and also the portion about the reflective belt being optional with reflective material being on the PT. Maybe it should be forwarded to the Deid?UNCLASSIFIED.doc

[Stuck]

[Q1Checkride]

Thanks Blue, as usual you've taken something decent and increased the suck factor dramatically.

Congrats to the Shoes on this one. Now they can move on to standardizing ABU sleeve roll by calendar date and other worthy activities.

thats just great. then theres this little gem:

A. COMMANDERS DETERMINE THE REQUIRED PTU/IPTU CONFIGURATION DURING ORGANIZED PT EVENTS.

now at 'organized' pt, EVERYONE will have to be in the same F'ing uniform configuration.

[pawnman]

thats just great. then theres this little gem:

A. COMMANDERS DETERMINE THE REQUIRED PTU/IPTU CONFIGURATION DURING ORGANIZED PT EVENTS.

now at 'organized' pt, EVERYONE will have to be in the same F'ing uniform configuration.

Well, when was the last time you went to an organized PT event? Mine was about two years ago, at EWO school.

[Guest fourtenwedge]

Well, when was the last time you went to an organized PT event? Mine was about two years ago, at EWO school.

Once a month in Clovistan

[Q1Checkride]

Well, when was the last time you went to an organized PT event? Mine was about two years ago, at EWO school.

Once a month in Clovistan

the last time i wore PT gear period was when i came back from al dhafra in sept of 2008.

i went there in 2007, tucking NOT mandatory, went once again in 2008, tucking NOW mandatory, did not go this year, but i know they have added saluting recognizable officers while in PT gear into the base supp-----shit gets more year by year

Edited October 29, 2009 by Q1Checkride

[outbreak]

Yup, these came down from CENTCOM I think. So the tucking, saluting, etc is AOR-wide. I was walking to the swill trough I mean chow hall I mean DFAC with the crew the other day, in PT's, and some other guy in PT's, whom none of us had ever seen before, popped a salute. We returned it and then said "so who the hell was that and how did he know we're officers?"

[speedy782]

I'm wearing the blue spandex and tucking in the sweatshirt...that's gonna be a sweet look.

[Guest Fogo]

Thankfully the only time I wear the PT gear, I mean uniform, is when I am here at the Deid.

I went into the gym today and saw everyone with their shirts nicely tucked in and it drove me to untuck mine and go about my workout. You'd be amazed (well, I guess you wouldn't) by how some people looked at me... Like I had a Scarlet Letter on or something.

[Marjackson82]

What's the big deal about tucking in your shirt?

[Karl Hungus]

What's the big deal about tucking in your shirt?

It's not the tucking itself, it's the fact that WE ARE FIGHTING A FUCCKING WAR AND THIS IS WHAT LEADERSHIP WASTES ITS TIME ON! And then when you have worthless SNCOs doing uniform patrol, harassing people who are actually doing the mission... needless distractions that do nothing but make life harder. I will never understand why the AF and the people in the AF love making shitt harder than it has to be. Mind boggling.

[Marjackson82]

It's not the tucking itself, it's the fact that WE ARE FIGHTING A FUCCKING WAR AND THIS IS WHAT LEADERSHIP WASTES ITS TIME ON! And then when you have worthless SNCOs doing uniform patrol, harassing people who are actually doing the mission... needless distractions that do nothing but make life harder. I will never understand why the AF and the people in the AF love making shitt harder than it has to be. Mind boggling.

Makes sense.

[MilitaryToFinance]

Well, when was the last time you went to an organized PT event? Mine was about two years ago, at EWO school.

Twice a week at 0630 unfortunately.

[fastnumber15]

Why is it that all the people in charge do this? Seems to me that most people on here are actually normal and could make a difference if they were put in the right place. You have to hope that one day soon someone or multiple people with common sense get the opportunity to make things better. You guys should try being on a Navy base, where you will get shot for even pumping gas in your flight suit or showing your military outside of the base gates. Keep thinking how nice it will be when they let me go back to an Air Force base, but damn all this makes me wonder.

[mudhen69]

It's not the tucking itself, it's the fact that WE ARE FIGHTING A FUCCKING WAR AND THIS IS WHAT LEADERSHIP WASTES ITS TIME ON! And then when you have worthless SNCOs doing uniform patrol, harassing people who are actually doing the mission... needless distractions that do nothing but make life harder. I will never understand why the AF and the people in the AF love making shitt harder than it has to be. Mind boggling.

I am not at all justifying SNCO uniform patrol but....

Is it really that hard to tuck in your shirt? It takes two seconds and it prevents 5 minutes of akward conversation with SNCO's and it certianly prevents your commander from having to listen to the Chief bitch and moan at Stand Up for 10 minutes when that 10 minutes of your commanders precious time can be used for him "fight a war" To me this is just one of those things that you just have to lay the "needing to be right all the time" part of your ego aside and look at the big picture. After all, that is the standard you are holding the leadership too.

To me, there are only a ceritan amount of chips you and your commander are given to cash in to fight stupid policies. I'd rather see those chips wasted on trying to get a 24 hr DFAC that serves hot meals or not having civilian contactors bust in our rooms for safety inspections while we are sleeping.

Just tuck in the shirt...if you really want to protest Air Force polices...grow a moustache...Other wise go try to find a job on this economy...and guess what, they make you tuck in your shirt there too!

[Toasty]

A) That's a cop-out for the leadership's lack of ability to use common sense and veto a stupid rule.

B) No one's complaining about tucking in a PT shirt. We're complaining about having to have it tucked in during PT, and requiring courtesies between ranks (when it is impossible to make that determination). I'm sorry, but if your "physical fitness training" doesn't result in your shirt becoming untucked, then you're doing some weak sauce PT.

C) There are much, much bigger things to be worrying about that changing 2903 and increasing the stupidity. Reflective belts should be worn as the situation dictates- flightline and certain other traffic-way personnel. If you get hit by a truck, let the commander make a line of duty determination, and be done with it. We're all wearing the f*cking diapers for one idiot who takes a steamer.

[Guest Fogo]

What's the big deal about tucking in your shirt?

Normally there isn't one at all, keeps you from looking sloppy...

But in the gym? While sweating and working out? Not only is there zero point, but its not exactly the most comfortable for exercising.

If had always been that way it'd be one thing, but in the midst of a war that brings fallen warriors through here every week, what on Earth prompts them to put out policy letters deciding all of a sudden we need to "tuck it in."

I'm sorry, but if your "physical fitness training" doesn't result in your shirt becoming untucked, then you're doing some weak sauce PT.

Shack.

[pawnman]

I am not at all justifying SNCO uniform patrol but....

Is it really that hard to tuck in your shirt? It takes two seconds and it prevents 5 minutes of akward conversation with SNCO's and it certianly prevents your commander from having to listen to the Chief bitch and moan at Stand Up for 10 minutes when that 10 minutes of your commanders precious time can be used for him "fight a war" To me this is just one of those things that you just have to lay the "needing to be right all the time" part of your ego aside and look at the big picture. After all, that is the standard you are holding the leadership too.

To me, there are only a ceritan amount of chips you and your commander are given to cash in to fight stupid policies. I'd rather see those chips wasted on trying to get a 24 hr DFAC that serves hot meals or not having civilian contactors bust in our rooms for safety inspections while we are sleeping.

Just tuck in the shirt...if you really want to protest Air Force polices...grow a moustache...Other wise go try to find a job on this economy...and guess what, they make you tuck in your shirt there too!

The point is, what is gained by the policy change? Do we think that the Taliban will somehow win because my shirt is untucked while lifting weights? Doubtful. I can certainly see enforcing dress and appearance regulations...but we have one that covers the entire USAF and seems to be working pretty well. Do we really need a uniform reg specific to each deployed location, let alone a uniform reg that is thicker than the parent reg? Are we in any way, shape, or form improving morale, combat capability, or sustainability? I submit that we are doing the opposite. No one gets out of the USAF at 4, 6, or 10 years because they hate the job they're doing. They get out because they've had enough of these pointless rules and regulations.

Sure, the civilian sector will require me to tuck in my shirt while at the office...but I'll never run into a middle-manager while running on the track who demands I tuck my (100% cotton) t-shirt into my (mesh) running shorts.

[mudhen69]

My only point is that there are somethings worth worrying about and/or fighting for. It takes less time out of my busy day to tuck in my pt shirt, wear a glow belt, and click through the self aid buddy care slides as fast as I can than to sit around and complain about how stupid these policies are.

Also, imagine a wing staff meeting where the wing commander goes around the room and when he gets to the Chief he has nothing to say. Now my commander can get back to the squadron faster and be a squadron commander. Or we can fight the system, have the Chief bitch about the discipline problems in the wing and how the officers aren't setting a good example..yada yada yada...Its back to that whole philosphy of not highlighting your self.

If you are working out so hard that your PT shirt comes untucked...then so be it. No one is going to say anything to you beacause you are a sweaty mess. Clearly there are other situtations where it is reasonable to un-tuck your shirt. Use a little common sense and dont use the lack of common sense to prove your point. I think you are cleared hot to untuck your shirt when you are using the restroom, taking it off to change or if you were on fire just to name a few. The AFI can not cover every possible situation so use some common sense and think about the intent of the rule and not the black and white lettering. Someone walking from thier car to the Shopette with the shirt untucked is completly different from someone using thier shirt to wipe the sweat off thier forecranium while working out.

In my runins with SNCO's, if I've had a reasonable explanation for my violation of AF policies, 99% saluted smartly and continued on with thier day.

[GearMonkey]

imagine a wing staff meeting where the wing commander goes around the room and when he gets to the Chief he has nothing to say

Herein lies the problem. If there aren't PT shirts or RBs to bitch about the Chief will surely find something else like haircuts or dorm cleanliness to waste everyone else's time with. This is what happens when you gather a bunch of senior Os and Es (shirts are much more of a problem than Chiefs from what I've seen) who have no real purpose in the AOR. This stuff doesn't seem to happen in the early days of a conflict; only after things cool off do we get to this level of ridiculousness.

See the glorious Leadership at the Deid thread for further details.

[pawnman]

My only point is that there are somethings worth worrying about and/or fighting for. It takes less time out of my busy day to tuck in my pt shirt, wear a glow belt, and click through the self aid buddy care slides as fast as I can than to sit around and complain about how stupid these policies are.

Also, imagine a wing staff meeting where the wing commander goes around the room and when he gets to the Chief he has nothing to say. Now my commander can get back to the squadron faster and be a squadron commander. Or we can fight the system, have the Chief bitch about the discipline problems in the wing and how the officers aren't setting a good example..yada yada yada...Its back to that whole philosphy of not highlighting your self.

If you are working out so hard that your PT shirt comes untucked...then so be it. No one is going to say anything to you beacause you are a sweaty mess. Clearly there are other situtations where it is reasonable to un-tuck your shirt. Use a little common sense and dont use the lack of common sense to prove your point. I think you are cleared hot to untuck your shirt when you are using the restroom, taking it off to change or if you were on fire just to name a few. The AFI can not cover every possible situation so use some common sense and think about the intent of the rule and not the black and white lettering. Someone walking from thier car to the Shopette with the shirt untucked is completly different from someone using thier shirt to wipe the sweat off thier forecranium while working out.

In my runins with SNCO's, if I've had a reasonable explanation for my violation of AF policies, 99% saluted smartly and continued on with thier day.

We must not be deployed to the same base. People have been, and continue to be, yelled at for having their shirts untucked while working out. Often in the middle of working out...you ask me, there's a safety issue when you're interupting a dude who is benching 300 pounds in mid-lift to make him tuck in his shirt. Seen it happen. I'm perfectly willing to tuck in my shirt if I'm not working out...but the thing is already damned uncomfortable as PT gear, do we really need to make it MORE uncomfortable to work out? Isn't this diametrically opposed to the "fit-to-fight" mentality we're trying to instill?

I maintain that the ops side of the house is not where the common sense is lacking.

[Guest Scooby]

Here at Eglin we worship PT. We PT three times a week and our staff meeting is almost entirely composed of PT slides and PT discussions. Our staff meetings go 90 minutes `and a large portion of that time is discussing PT tests, PT policy, etc.

I can guarantee you that starting next week, the PT Nazis will be in full force.

But it'll be a cold day in Hell before I ever shave the morning of PT

[MKopack]

My only point is that there are somethings worth worrying about and/or fighting for. It takes less time out of my busy day to tuck in my pt shirt, wear a glow belt, and click through the self aid buddy care slides as fast as I can than to sit around and complain about how stupid these policies are.

The problem is these issues seem to compound exponentially without any sanity checks in place - and there simply don't seem to be any common sense checks in place of any kind. Sure, while it would be difficult - at best - to find anyone who supports both the enforcement and the PT shirt and disco belt policies themselves entirely, they're not difficult to comply with. But unchecked, where do they go from here?

I'm still having a difficult time wrapping my head around why our people are wearing PT gear off duty anyway? Yeah, I know - to present a more uniform appearance, etc... Great, to what point?

If every new 'rotation' brings even a single new CO, DO or Chief with a 'new idea' to a Commander who decides it's easier to just say 'Go', than to fight a bureaucracy that is growing even larger than he could control if he wanted to, where will we be in five years? I hate to imagine. Today it's tucking your shirt in, tomorrow could it be something that really could affect the mission? Are you willing to bet that once that time comes then someone will make a stand?