Leadership at the 'Deid

[pawnman]

And what was the expression exactly?

I thought Full Metal Jacket was required viewing for military members.

[Finance_Guy]

Umm, seriously?

The expression would be " GO CHOKE YOURSELF ".

It means that you should put your hands around your neck and squeeze tightly enough that it cuts of the blood flow and air supply moving through your neck.

Well at first yes. Would have been nice if there was the word "I'm" at the beginning of the sentence. I took it to mean he was jabbing me for borrowing someone else's expression, then in light of that to go choke myself. I didn't know who was doing the borrowing. My bad.

[M2]

Complacency is an issue in rear areas like the Deid or Alasad(aka Camp Cupcake) and every Commander is trying to make sure their command does not get complacent and lower their guard. And yes every get complacent, it is only human. We do not want the enemy driving a truck loaded with explosive towards our gate because our perimeter security has gotten lackadaisical. (Offensive mindset if you will)

I will give you an example from Iraq. We noticed a few of the gunners on some of the convoys going out listening to their Ipods. Knowing how clever the enemy has gotten and how difficult it really is to spot an IED, why would anyone in their senses want to listen to an Ipod. So everyone is trusting the gunner to spot enemy activity due to the vantage point the turret affords him. Well your gunner is listening to music and now his/her mind is far removed from the task at hand. How should a convoy commander treat this issue? Apparently all the gunners on this transport platoon did the same thing. They had gotten used to the long and boring convoys with no enemy contact. The sad part of this is that complacency deteriorates. We sure would not want our tour watches and gate guards listening to Ipods and goofing off.

Trust me, more support personnel are lost in Iraq than should be the case ( Humvee roll-overs, personnel playing with UXO's, personnel playing with flash-bang just to name a few). Because everyone thinks support is just that. While I do not agree with the crazy policies, you kind of have to draw the line too. What things are you going to allow and what are you going to say NO.

You also have to remember that a good percentage of Air force functions are support functions. Often times than not, leadership might be trying to portray a lean mean tough Air force especially when they are co-located with the other services. (Bad idea)

/off soap box

Sorry, it goes along the lines of "how can I trust a mechanic to work on an aircraft if he can't shine his shoes" mentality. The best maintainers I ever met looked like Cooter from the Dukes of Hazzard; but damn if they couldn't fix an airplane! I am all for decreasing complacency; but I don't think putting a uniform nazis at the door of the DFAC is gonna keep the insurgents from running the gates. Instead, give the motherfucker a goddamn M-16 and put his ass on the fence!

Cheers! M2

[ol-IEWO]

I'm former Air Force and having read some of the post in this thread, I have to say that the AF has got too many chicken-shit assholes these days. Moustaches out of regulation limits, wrong hat, no reflective belt - good grief; is this the Air Force or ROTC? These 'hall monitors" must have a serious inferiority complex and this crap must make them feel important. Oh, they are enforcing the regulation; why? Some of these reg's aren't even enforced stateside. Well, at least at the ACC bases I've visited; haven't been to an AMC base, so I don't know about them. In the posts I've read, none of the items relate to mission or ability to do the job. I'm a Vietnam vet, flew out of Thailand from Taklhi. Regulation hat - nope, it was an Australian "Go To Hell" outback hat. Regulation flight suit - nope, it was locally made using camouflage fabric (pre-Nomex days); regulation moustache – again, no, had to fold up the handlebars to get them under the O2 mask. Our Wing CO decided to have a beard growing contest for everyone except us flyers. Great for morale until Higher HQ shot that down. When the BX had no regulation hats, the he authorized any hat, military or otherwise, could be worn with any uniform. It was before my time there, but an inspection team showed up and the CO threw them out, told them he had a war to fight and he didn't need them screwing things up. If we had your shoeclerks, there wouldn’t have been anybody on base except shoeclerks. There's a time and place for everything and from the photos I've seen of the 'Deid, it shouldn't be at the 'Deid. The 'Deid looks like the end of the earth to me. How you folks survive there is beyond my comprehension.

[discus]

I'm former Air Force and having read some of the post in this thread, I have to say that the AF has got too many chicken-shit assholes these days. Moustaches out of regulation limits, wrong hat, no reflective belt - good grief; is this the Air Force or ROTC? These 'hall monitors" must have a serious inferiority complex and this crap must make them feel important. Oh, they are enforcing the regulation; why? Some of these reg's aren't even enforced stateside. Well, at least at the ACC bases I've visited; haven't been to an AMC base, so I don't know about them. In the posts I've read, none of the items relate to mission or ability to do the job. I'm a Vietnam vet, flew out of Thailand from Taklhi. Regulation hat - nope, it was an Australian "Go To Hell" outback hat. Regulation flight suit - nope, it was locally made using camouflage fabric (pre-Nomex days); regulation moustache – again, no, had to fold up the handlebars to get them under the O2 mask. Our Wing CO decided to have a beard growing contest for everyone except us flyers. Great for morale until Higher HQ shot that down. When the BX had no regulation hats, the he authorized any hat, military or otherwise, could be worn with any uniform. It was before my time there, but an inspection team showed up and the CO threw them out, told them he had a war to fight and he didn't need them screwing things up. If we had your shoeclerks, there wouldn’t have been anybody on base except shoeclerks. There's a time and place for everything and from the photos I've seen of the 'Deid, it shouldn't be at the 'Deid. The 'Deid looks like the end of the earth to me. How you folks survive there is beyond my comprehension.

You are a great American, ol-IEWO. Well said!

[Guest Fogo]

You are a great American, ol-IEWO. Well said!

"2!" Well said.

All of that stuff would only vastly improve morale to allow us to breathe easy and enjoy things the best we are able to. Instead, the garbage just gets piled on by people with rods stuck firmly inside them.

Heading over in the not too distant future for my first visit there... can't wait to offer up my personal view of the dumbness.

[Butters]

Heading over in the not too distant future for my first visit there... can't wait to offer up my personal view of the dumbness.

Funny thing is, after a couple of weeks you will wish you had just stayed here and read about it! Good luck and wear your reflective belt, black socks and ID Card!

[Guest Boom]

Take a picture of the neon "Live Nudes" light in the window of some guy's dorm room. Hilarious.

[Guest dagoden]

Take a picture of the neon "Live Nudes" light in the window of some guy's dorm room. Hilarious.

Haha! yeah, I walked past that sign everyday on my journey to the caddy.

[189Herk]

Anyone notice the pool looks like an episode of Miami Ink?

[BQZip01]

ShoeClerk...

Folks at the Died who claim they are in the "war" are the same folks who were at Guam saying they fought in Vietnam...

Shoe, my father flew BUFFs with a lot of those guys who flew in Linebacker II out of Guam. A lot of their buddies didn't come back. I suggest you think a little more about your remarks before hitting that "SUBMIT" button.

[HerkDerka]

I think you missed the point of that statement.

HD

[BQZip01]

I think you missed the point of that statement.

HD

Oh, I got the point, but making sweeping generalities that are insulting is also stupid

[Butters]

Oh, I got the point, but making sweeping generalities that are insulting is also stupid

No, you are still missing the point! He is talking about people who never leave the base. If you Dad flew BUFFs, I am pretty sure he left the base from time to time.

[BQZip01]

No, you are still missing the point! He is talking about people who never leave the base. If you Dad flew BUFFs, I am pretty sure he left the base from time to time.

Then he should be more specific. To be even more clear, I agree with the guy on many points, but some people need to get off their high horse (a checkpoint for what color socks you're wearing? Give me a break) and others need to admit when they're wrong (if you're wearing white socks, you're wrong. Admit it, fix it, maybe help your buddies out and give them a head's up, and then let it go).

I've been to the deid twice. I saw the pictures of the Sheep on the bike. The O-6 went a little overboard with the plaque on his bike, so what? I don't know many O-6s that don't have some little quirks, but the guys who openly mocked it were asking for trouble. Hell, I remember our first sergeant getting a 1st Shirts only e-mail with a subject line that read "Gonna go over to the Bra and check people for uniform violations". The body of the message was even more disturbing: "Wanna come with? We already have 7 shirts coming along." He politely declined.

Our standards should be such that the guy who notices a uniform violation says something to the guy, the violator says "oops" and fixes it, and then life goes on with nothing ever being brought up again. No one should be grossly out of uniform. No one should berate someone publicly for an extremely minor infraction. In short, try to do the right thing.

I remember once giving a briefing to about 40 cadets. After the briefing another Lt came over and said, "You're rank is on wrong." I immediately realized what happened (my wife put the rank of for me after washing it; BTW, I don't blame my wife, I blame myself for not checking it; it was my butt out there; no one to blame but me), fixed it, and no one said anything about it ever again. The shirts should look after their own troops and check them out. If someone isn't up to snuff, politely point it out. If you see it again, you can tell them again or just tell their shirt. If it happens a third time, tell their shirt and/or flight commander/sq commander. Those regs are mostly signed by O-7s and up. They are lawful orders. Allowing others to skimp on the regs is tacit acceptance of the violation. Keep the bar high, but don't hit people with the bar.

:beer:

[Butters]

A SNAP to HD

Then he should be more specific.

Jesus HD, is this your first day posting? Have you ever been to the Deid? [sarcasm] Just incase someone does not get what I am saying!

Zip, unfortunatley I think you are the only one in this forum that did not get what HD said.

I've been to the deid twice.

Then STFU! Sorry But still, you should STFU!

Those regs are mostly signed by O-7s and up.

No shit!

and others need to admit when they're wrong (if you're wearing white socks, you're wrong. Admit it, fix it, maybe help your buddies out and give them a head's up, and then let it go).

I am not helping anyone change their socks! As for the sock thing, that is something you have to get all up in someone's chili to check, this is not a case of having your rank on backwards.

Go Noles!

[Butters]

These 'hall monitors" must have a serious inferiority complex and this crap must make them feel important.

You just dealt with the Dawg bitch!

You got on black socks Brah?

[BQZip01]

By "help them out" I meant to clue them in. Let them know (politely) they made a mistake.

[Herk Driver]

BQ,

If you go back and read all 27 pages of this thread, you will see a theme; shoes at the Died or on Guam or anywhere else who think they are the war. That is who C-21 was referring to and most, if not all (but you) of the people on the board who read more than 2 posts, got that.

[Butters]

By "help them out" I meant to clue them in. Let them know (politely) they made a mistake.

I know what you meant! I was trying to be funny..... Humor and sarcasm never seem to make it through the keyboard.

[BQZip01]

I know what you meant! I was trying to be funny..... Humor and sarcasm never seem to make it through the keyboard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SARC

[PolyestherDuck]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SARC

I just got my SARC briefing. To be honest, I thought they would have talked more about proactive measures such as self-defense classes, carrying pepper spray and concealed carry, but I guess thats why they're the "Response Coordinator."

Edited July 29, 2008 by Disco

[Stiffler]

Then he should be more specific. To be even more clear, I agree with the guy on many points, but some people need to get off their high horse (a checkpoint for what color socks you're wearing? Give me a break) and others need to admit when they're wrong (if you're wearing white socks, you're wrong. Admit it, fix it, maybe help your buddies out and give them a head's up, and then let it go).

I've been to the deid twice. I saw the pictures of the Sheep on the bike. The O-6 went a little overboard with the plaque on his bike, so what? I don't know many O-6s that don't have some little quirks, but the guys who openly mocked it were asking for trouble. Hell, I remember our first sergeant getting a 1st Shirts only e-mail with a subject line that read "Gonna go over to the Bra and check people for uniform violations". The body of the message was even more disturbing: "Wanna come with? We already have 7 shirts coming along." He politely declined.

Our standards should be such that the guy who notices a uniform violation says something to the guy, the violator says "oops" and fixes it, and then life goes on with nothing ever being brought up again. No one should be grossly out of uniform. No one should berate someone publicly for an extremely minor infraction. In short, try to do the right thing.

I remember once giving a briefing to about 40 cadets. After the briefing another Lt came over and said, "You're rank is on wrong." I immediately realized what happened (my wife put the rank of for me after washing it; BTW, I don't blame my wife, I blame myself for not checking it; it was my butt out there; no one to blame but me), fixed it, and no one said anything about it ever again. The shirts should look after their own troops and check them out. If someone isn't up to snuff, politely point it out. If you see it again, you can tell them again or just tell their shirt. If it happens a third time, tell their shirt and/or flight commander/sq commander. Those regs are mostly signed by O-7s and up. They are lawful orders. Allowing others to skimp on the regs is tacit acceptance of the violation. Keep the bar high, but don't hit people with the bar.

:beer:

Man, I hope you never become a commander. JK. No im not.

[BQZip01]

BQ,

If you go back and read all 27 pages of this thread, you will see a theme; shoes at the Died or on Guam or anywhere else who think they are the war. That is who C-21 was referring to and most, if not all (but you) of the people on the board who read more than 2 posts, got that.

Herk,

I read the entire thing (over 3 days). I get the basics of the "shoeclerk mentality" out there. While I was there, I worked 12 hour days (absolute minimum of 12) seven days a week. I may have been a Comm weenie at the time, but I was well aware of where the pointy end of the spear is located. While Al Udeid is a critical node, it isn't directly the point end...though it can certainly be the thrust of the spear (pun intended).

I was also intimately aware of the lack of common sense out there when it came to regulations. Hell common sense when it came to LAWS seemed to go out the window too. I was once pulled over in my commander's vehicle (an O-6) for not stopping at a stop sign. The problem was that the line for the stop sign was about 20 feet from the sign. I even saw the blue & red light party patrol across the street in the ditch watching traffic. I came to a full 3 second stop at the sign. A truck at the intersection had his wheels turned as if to turn right (towards me). Since I was turning left, I went at the same time he did, but he turned the wheel and went straight for about a second before jerking the wheel right. I started to go, but then slowed down until he turned.

The airman (straight up buck airman) pulls me over and says, "You didn't stop at that stop sign there."

"I certainly did, but the line is way behind the stop sign. From where you guys were sitting [almost eye-level with the ground], you couldn't possibly see it."

"Sir, you didn't stop. End of story. I'm giving you a ticket."

Internally, I'm thinking "You idiot. Way to give 40% on your job instead of 100%. I'm glad you're the cannon fodder if we ever get overrun"

I take the ticket back to my boss and tell him the whole story. He states that he's glad I didn't make a scene and that he'd take care of the ticket with the Wing King the next day at the staff meeting. He did and no one else got hassled for my entire tour out there. I met that airman later on my tour at the bra. He took one look at me and walked away. I kinda felt sorry for the guy. He was just doing what higher ups (some SSgt) told him to do. I found out later he got chewed out by the SSgt who told him to do it. The SSgt should have taken the brunt of this, not the Airman.

Another related story about SF (why is it always these guys?): A couple of our Captains (I was with a tenant unit at the time that didn't fall under CENTAF) was going to pick someone up at the airport in Doha.

The guy walks up to the desk to check out and the SSgt on duty says, "I'm sorry, sir, but I can't let you go. You'll be out past curfew."

"Uh...we're picking one of our guys up at the airport"

"Is that official business or R&R?"

The captain looks at him questioningly. "Official business"

"Uh huh. Well, you didn't check the box marking it as 'official business'."

A little frustrated, he says. "Ok, then." takes out a pen, grabs the paper, and checks the correct box. He then hands the form back to the Desk Sgt.

"Sir, I still can't let you go."

Flabbergasted, he says "Why not?"

"Well, you commander signed this before you checked that box, so I have no way of knowing if he knows what you're doing."

"Did you read the block where it states what we are leaving to do? It says we are going to the airport to pick up a person in our unit. He signed off on that."

"Well, I still can't let you go. You'll have to get another form and get him to sign it."

"Listen, buddy..."

Now, if there's one thing I learned from this, it is that "buddy" is apparently some sort of key word you don't use when talking to SF.

"Sir, step back from the counter and place your hands on your head."

"What?"

"Step back from the counter and place your hands on your head NOW!"

He complies and the Sgt steps around the desk and begins to cuff him. Meanwhile, the other Captain says to himself, "Whoa! I ain't getting involved in this!" and quickly steps outside. Using his cell phone, he calls our commander. The commander (an O-6), whom everyone in our unit knows has a fuse about a quarter of an inch long, goes ballistic. He grabs every officer he can find, pulls our SF personnel off their shift (except one to guard the gate), and heads out of our compound at a high rate of speed...ok, they were going 35 in a 25 zone. Apparently we were going to war with the US Air Force! He rolls in with the 5-vehicle convoy and disembarks from the vehicle with a posse of 5 Lt Colonels and a lot of majors & other officers, plus 5 SF troops and strolls into the shack. Fortunately for the desk Sgt. the Captain supervising them saw the convoy leave and beat them to the guard shack by cutting across the taxiways. She released our guys and they were halfway to the airport by the time the Colonel arrived. She explained that the Desk Sgt would no longer be working that position and would be pulling pit duty for the next month for his actions. THAT was the appropriate action for this schmuck!

I think the problem out there is that people have too much free time because there are too many people out there. If you're in a combat zone, you don't need to be working 8 hour

shifts 5 to 6 days a week. You're getting paid extra to be out there, so earn it! Bosses can allow extra time off to run errands (i.e. run to the BX during lunch, go to the Bra to relax, heck even allow time off for those poker tournaments if there is nothing to do). We did it and it made for a VERY relaxing working atmosphere with everyone going in the same direction.

Currently, I work under the American Educational Toy Company (a.k.a. AETC) and they don't have it much better, but it is still in a lot of ways better than the 'deid.

I just got my SARC briefing. To be honest, I thought they would have talked more about proactive measures such as self-defense classes, carrying pepper spray and concealed carry, but I guess thats why they're the "Response Coordinator."

Yeah. We can't have policies where people are using directly effective prevention techniques as opposed to responsive techniques. In all fairness though, they aren't the primary line of defense, they are the poor SOBs that have to clean up after the mess.

Man, I hope you never become a commander. JK. No im not.

Yeah. Wouldn't want someone in command who follows orders and speaks out against stupidity...

[F-15E WSO]

I'm not your buddy, Guy!