All in AETC get GWOT-S metal - WTFO?!

[Hacker]

So, I return from my 4-ship to the range today and read on my email that the AETC/CC has authorized the GWOT-S medal for *everyone in AETC* regardless if they have or have not directly participated in the Global War On Terror.

WTF???

That is a slap in the face to those of us who have spent hours and hours flying CAPs for Operation NOBLE EAGLE. As if it wasn't bad enough that the GWOT-S was the only recognition ONE flyers are going to get...now it's pretty much just being given to *everyone*.

[M2]

Hacker

Everyone in EUCOM got it as well, Gen Jones put out a memo to that effect a few weeks ago. The GWOT Service Medal is turning into another National Defense Service Medal...I expect the USAFA ****ers will be wearing it soon!

Cheers! M2

[M2]

But also remember there is still the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal, which still requires you to be someplace where there is actually some operations going on against terrorism to get one!

The GWOT-E "shall be awarded to members of the Armed Forces of the United States who serve or have served in military expeditions to combat terrorism, as defined by such regulations, on or after September 11, 2001, and before a terminal date to be prescribed by the Secretary of Defense."

The GWOT-S is "shall be awarded to members of the Armed Forces of the United States who serve or have served in military operations to combat terrorism, as defined by such regulations, on or after September 11, 2001, and before a terminal date to be prescribed by the Secretary of Defense."

(Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20...0030312-6.html)

See the difference? Me neither...maybe this 'plain English' version will help...

GWOT-S: Service members must be assigned, attached, or mobilized to a unit participating in or serving in support of designated operations for 30 consecutive days or 60 nonconsecutive days, or must meet one of the following criteria:

-- Be engaged in actual combat regardless of time in the operation; or,

-- While participating in the operation, regardless of time, is killed, wounded, or injured requiring medical evacuation from the operation.

GWOT-E: Service members must be assigned, attached, or mobilized to a unit participating in designated operations for 30 consecutive days or 60 nonconsecutive days in the area of eligibility, or meet one of the following criteria:

-- Be engaged in actual combat against the enemy and under circumstances involving grave danger of death or serious bodily injury from enemy action, regardless of time in the area of responsibility;

-- While participating in the designated operation, regardless of time, is killed, wounded, or injured requiring medical evacuation from the area of eligibility;

-- Service members participating as a regularly assigned air crew member flying sorites into, out of, within, or over the area of eligibility in direct support of Operations Enduring Freedom and/or Iraqi Freedom are eligible to qualify for the medal. Each day that one or more sorties are flown in accordance with these criteria shall count as one day twoard the 30 or 60 day requirement are eligible.

(Sources: http://foxfall.com/csm-common-wots.htm & http://foxfall.com/csm-common-wote.htm)

Cheers! M2

[ 30. March 2005, 16:40: Message edited by: MajorMadMax ]

[Mambo]

Just got word today that everybody in PACAF after 9/11 gets the GWOT-S medal....

Looks like it IS turning into the National Defense Service Medal....Dammit! Now I have to go buy another rack , another $2.50 I could have spent on

[Guest SnakeT38]

Get used to the "I passed by there or knew someone who did" medals.

[Guest FlyingAgain]

who cares? It's the same discussion as the flight suits for everyone. You know what you did, don't worry about the clerks...

[Guest FlyingAgain]

or remf's

[C17Driver]

Everyone in ACC and AMC also received the GWOT-S regardless of job/deployments.

[Hacker]

Originally posted by FlyingAgain:

who cares? It's the same discussion as the flight suits for everyone. You know what you did, don't worry about the clerks...

No, not in the same ballpark at all. When you look at someone's service record, deployments to -- and service in -- specific combat operations are reflected by campaign medals. This is the exact reason that GWOT-E is going to be supplemented by Afghanistan and Iraq Campaign Medals.

There are a lot of guys who have spent a metric sh*t-ton of time flying in circles above US cities with live missiles and intercepting general aviation pilots. It was time-consuming, draining on proficiency, and for those who did it in the days after 9/11, scary as hell because of the possibilities. This is not marked as "combat" time in the AFARMS logs, nor is it currently denoted by any kind of campaign ribbon.

I know a lot of fighter pilots who missed out on Afghanistan and Iraq because their squadrons were tasked with ONE (my squadron missed out on OEF because of it, for one...). They were at least being recognized with GWOT-S, which sucked to begin with but was at least some way to make their records different than Airman Snuffy.

Now there is nothing.

[Guest beylund]

In today's military, you get a ribbon for wiping your ass properly and safely. The one device that's really earned is the CIB; Combat Infantry Badge (rifle, only attached to infantry units can get it), and even that is given out too often IMHO.

Hey, does anyone know if Combat Controllers, ALO's, etc can wear the ranger tab on BDU's or flight suits if they've been through Ranger Training? That would be schweeeeet. Ha, Airborne Ranger.

[163 FS]

I agree about the CIB (I myself am prior Army). Only Infantry can receive the award, but it has gotten a reputation as the (Free IB). A very challenging award the the Expert Infantry Badge (EIB).

Anyway, AF dudes cannot wear their Ranger tab according to the uniform reg (36-2913 maybe, sounds familiar.) However, I would let them wear it. I've got several buddies in the AF that were in the Army with me who have Ranger tabs and to my knowledge they wear it.

[BONE Co-driver]

Tweet FAIP

Were you ever stationed in Korea while in the Army? If so, did you get orders for the Korean National Defense Medal and do you wear it now? I am prior Army as well and I was there but my local MPF is telling me that I can't wear it because I have no proof that I was overseas while at the same time they have my DD 214 with the Army Overseas ribbon and AAM orders that I earned while in Korea.

Any ideas?

Thanks

[BONE Co-driver]

I had a break between my Army time and Air Force time. The break was long enough that my records were forward from the base that I left active duty to the national archives at St. Louis. I have tried to get a copy of the orders for the medal since it was awarded after my records were sent to St. Louis, but the process seems to take YEARS.

I do have proof that I was in Korea (award orders from when I was there), but MPF is saying that since it was during my Army time the Army would have to award the madal, not the Air Force.

[Guest Wxpunk]

Okay, let me get this straight: I got deployed for one year right after 9/11 in support of GWOT but at Ft. Benning, GA, not overseas. Are you saying that I shouldn't be recognized for my contribution?

I can understand a beef with AD or full-time Guard/Res folks who do nothing outside their normal routine yet automatically qualify for this medal. However, what about those who are taken from their jobs and families for extended periods of time? Why don't you want them to be included?

-------------

Wxpunk

[Hacker]

Originally posted by Wxpunk:

Okay, let me get this straight: I got deployed for one year right after 9/11 in support of GWOT but at Ft. Benning, GA, not overseas. Are you saying that I shouldn't be recognized for my contribution?

If by "you" you mean the MAJCOM CCs who are issuing the medal to everyone, then yes, I think that's exactly what they're saying.

I'm in favor of giving it to those it was intended to go to...and *not* to everyone, as has happened.

123abc, I'm the furthest thing from a "ribbon chaser"...read my post where I talk about being concerned about having participation in ONE operations on the *service record*, and notice I don't mention anything about what is worn on the chest of your mess dress or class As.

[Gravedigger]

I don't really know anything about AF ribbons and medals, but I can't stand participation awards. It's like when you spend 4 hours on a maccaroni snowman in kindergarten(or high school for some of us) and the teacher says everyone's a winner. F*ck that, my snowman is twice as good as that retard next to me . Anywho, awards should be given, but only when you do something that sets you apart from the average person. Not when you do something with everyone else because it's your job, and you're required to do it. Just MHO.

[Sneedro]

I checked today and recieved that ribbon...and for what?? Apparently for doing stand-up, shotgun questions, and filling out boldface while at UPT. Kind of rediculous if you ask me. I have done nothing to earn it. I agree 100% with Hacker that this is sort of a slap in the face to those who have actually spent time doing missions in support of the war.

[163 FS]

Future Bone Driver-

I never went to Korea, but do you have the certificate from your AAM saying your location (Korea) at the time of the award. I guess you could match your DD214 and that award, but common sense never prevails (especially in the MPF).

Wear the medal, you earned it. Besides, it won't count towards anything (I don't think) and who is going to call you out on it.

[163 FS]

123ABC-

Do you have basic parachutist wings or Airborne wings?

[Guest Fred]

Shhhh, if you listen closely, you can hear it.

It's the sound of the shoe-clerks slowly taking over the Air Force.

[Guest waxgoblin]

123abc, i think he was asking which one of them you have

[Guest KoolKat]

I agree with the ones that seem to have the correct point here...I would give this ribbon back, which I could with some ass pain on my part, but eventually have too ask for it back. I don't think it would make any difference here anyway...

What is the action that needs to be taken to really voice any concern about the situation...I think there is something to be said here.

If nothing gets said...we will all allow another inch down the slippery slope, right?

[Guest jmac2222]

I checked on vMPF and have a GWOT-E and a GWOT-S. I didnt think we could get both.

[HerkDerka]

They changed the regs a little. If you qualify for the GWOT-E then you also qualify for the GWOT-S.

IMHO. I earned my GWOT-E several times. However, I agree that there are dudes who have to miss out on the fight to support ONE. I think these guys are the ones who should be getting the GWOT-S. I'd happily give mine to them up. Why? Because I've never flown in support of ONE.

Recognize their homeland defense. Now, with that said. The current situation stands that the GWOT is fast becoming an "everybody gets one" National Defense-esque medal. I say let's approve campaign medals for both OIF and OEF. That way, the guys in the fight get their recognition and also the guys at home get theirs.

And when I say guys I home I mean units flying ONE missions and missing out on deployments. I'm sorry, but I don't think shoeclerks should be getting GWOT medals for doing their everyday job and going home everynight.

HD

[Guest lightning4eva]

I completely agree with you guys, I was a CP controller at Otis under ACC + ONE. Just got mine. I volunteered when I was a sophomore in ROTC( big woop I know I know)

I made a good amount of $$ as an E-4 and wasted on a girl and some on a car. I do hope and agree that they come out w/some campaign medals for those that have been in OEF and OIF

(as far as I know AETC, ACC, and USAFE are all getting it, correct me if I'm wrong)