Pooter

Hell yeah brotherrrrrr why grapple with the unpleasant reality of what’s actually going on when we can just macho talk wish cast

Not sure what a Biden covid inflation rant has to do with our current war of choice in Iran and its negative consequences, but you do you man. And yes Iran is in a stronger position. Our president told them that when he said their plan was a good basis for negotiations. But dont take my word for it, let’s see how the neocon right is taking the news: Huh weird. Nobody seems to want to talk about it. Must be going swimmingly. FFS Fox News’ top headline the day of the ceasefire announcement was a lady missing in the Bahamas. Anyone done a wellness check on Shapiro and the Adelsons today? 😂😂

Interesting I will check that out

My position is that the price of gas is just one of the many crappy side effects from this stupid and counterproductive adventure. It’s also funny that a metric every right winger was obsessed with “I did that” under Biden has now suddenly lost its importance. But to your broader point: If Iran is utterly decimated why is their regime still in place and now charging tolls in bitcoin and or Chinese Yuan to pass through the straight? If they’re decimated why is our own president saying THEIR 10 point plan is a good basis for negotiations? You guys keep saying funny macho shit like BOOM! ROASTED! TOTALLY DECIMATED! GAME, BLOUSES! But at some point we’re gonna have to confront the reality that Iran is in a stronger geopolitical position now than at any point in at least 10 years

The claim wasn’t: gas has been historically more expensive under Trump than Biden The claim was: we’re in a stupid war of choice right now that is directly spiking gas prices right now

lol one of us is raging and calling people toddlers and it isn’t me. I’ve already listed things trump has done that I like. This war isn’t one of them. I’m perfectly willing to call a spade a spade and say when something is good policy or bad policy no matter who did it. This war is turning out to be very bad policy and it doesn’t matter if it was started by Trump, Biden, Kamala, Mickey Mouse, or Pickle Rick. I’m sure Trump’s ‘we’re gonna exterminate all of you’ rhetoric was uniquely unproductive, but in general I’d be saying the same thing no matter who was in charge. Not one person in here can explain how we’re in a better strategic position wrt Iran today than we were a month and a half ago. Or a year ago. Or when we had the JCPOA. Iran has more influence, leverage, and credibility right now than at any point I can remember.

Well you’re right actually everything was humming along just fine, and then we started a counterproductive war of choice that spiked gas higher than the Biden average. And now it’s looking like it’s gonna stay there a while unless you think a ceasefire that lets Iran charge the tankers going through the straight is gonna somehow make oil cheaper. But yet again I’m sure I’m just missing some crucial piece of the puzzle here and the 5-D chess will become evident in the fullness of time

Gotta zoom in really far on the doll’s ass to see it:

-No tax on tips is solid -I like how angry he makes blue haired liberals -I generally like his border hawkishness but in execution it’s been kinda a mess -his Supreme Court picks have been generally decent There. Now can we talk about how this war is a shitshow? Or are we just gonna deflect to Chicago crime rates or me being “triggered” or TDS again? Explain to me how we are in a materially better position right now with this 10 point ceasefire proposal, than we were two months ago before all this went down. And I’m talking strategically. I know we blew up a bunch of their stuff. We’re great at that. Cool. Explain to me how Iran is weaker in terms of regional influence today than they were last year. Because it seems like they just got us to tentatively agree to a deal that is better than anything they’ve had in decades.

wow with all that destruction it really makes you wonder how they got the United States to cave to their 10 point ceasefire proposal. It’s almost like rusted out tomcats and 5 goofy catamarans weren’t the basis of their power projection in the region. but don’t let me ruin a good spike of the football MURICAAAA

Honestly no. And if she had started this war I would’ve been against it too. I just argue against trump here because railing on the dems in a predominantly conservative forum isn’t any fun The dems have their own huge issues, namely being so insane on social and economic policy that it will drive people to vote for candidates like trump. And I will always blame the democrats for trump round two. He should have been easy to beat but when you run a senile guy and then sub in a cackling crazy lady at the 11th hour #brat #joy they somehow made trump look (temporarily) like the sane option.

Because after seeing years of simping and rushing to his defense when we call him out for saying clearly unhinged stuff, you saying “well I don’t like everything he says” and claiming not to be a supporter doesn’t really convince me anymore. The “I’m just a stoic political realist who picked the lesser of two evils” routine doesn’t hold as much water when you charge in to defend him and glaze his every policy move whenever there’s the slightest criticism. As others have said there is actually a 3rd option here: expect better and stop making excuses for the guy

lol wtf is this boomer ass fox news argument 😂 Chicago is a city of 9 million people. Since when do we compare soldier death tolls to major metropolitan area crime to figure out if a war is a going well or not? Oh that’s right no one does that.. it’s a stupid deflection tactic because: -the straight isn’t open -the regime isn’t changed -the people aren’t rising up -the missile threat isn’t eliminated -negotiations aren’t progressing -the region isn’t safer Can’t argue the war on its own merits? Pivot to TDS accusations and LiBeRal cItY cRiMe

See this is the classic ‘have your cake and eat it too’ technique that the trump cult of personality constantly lives in and uses to hand wave away anything bad he says or does. Because his supporters DO take his tweets literally.. when they like what he’s saying. When trump says he’s making great progress in negotiations with Iran (a lie) his supporters take that literally. It’s only when he’s advocating for war crimes or something else reprehensible that they’ll go “bro haven’t you learned by now not to take him literally? he’s just a showman.. why are you making such a big deal about a mean tweet.” It’s a convenient little unfalsifiable bubble you guys have created for yourselves. Anything trump says or does you like—taken at face value and evidence of how great he is Anything he says or does that is objectively horrible—“calm down bro don’t be so literal he’s just a showman” So I’ll ask the question for the second time today in slightly different words: is there anything he could say or do that you won’t use that technique to hand wave away? Are there limits to the trump cuck filter or does it apply in every single scenario?

See you might think this is a damning sequence of incoherence and impulsiveness from our president that sums up the complete lack of strategy and maturity they’re approaching this with, but actually you just have TDS and don’t understand the 15-D chess going on in the background.

Is the plan in the room with us right now? Describe it to me. How does “a whole civilization will die tonight” fit into that plan? How is that not escalatory? How is that rhetoric in line with how this war was originally sold? edit, maybe a better question to ask: is there any public statement trump could make that you would admit is reckless, escalatory, or strategically damaging?

Oh silly me I thought that the commander in chief threatening to “end a civilization” was where we lost the plot but I guess we have to wait and see if he’s actually gonna do it

It’s just a shame no one predicted this would devolve into reckless escalations with no plan. But in fairness these things are super duper difficult to analyze as they’re happening

Just popping in for the friendly weekly reminder that at no point leading up to this stupid boondoggle did our own intel community assess Iran was developing a nuke. 2025 DNI report saying as much is linked a few pages back. But please don’t let inconvenient facts like that interfere with fear mongering about it. There’s some pretty bad faith comments in here to the point that it’s honestly gotten tiresome. This might sound strange to some of you but it’s perfectly possible to disagree with the policy and strategy underpinning a war without being a “scaredy cat” or “against the troops” or “rooting for failure.”

Delusions about our capabilities and influence are the first step toward getting into these kinds of disastrous long haul slogs. That you would even bring it up signals a level of hubris that I think seriously clouds your strategic thinking.

-this isn’t gonna be some 20 year boondoggle -look we might have to spend the next 100 years playing whack-a-mole bombing Iran into submission Even better! A 100 year boondoggle where we don’t even have the moral high ground of being able to claim we’re trying to bring democracy to a backward country. At least now we’re saying the quiet part out loud.

And what happens when a few thousand marines are on Kharg island and then Iran, having now lost access to their own fossil fuel infrastructure, just says fuck it and starts lobbing TBMs at the place? Missiles are already getting through in PSAB and Tel Aviv, how do you think this is gonna go when we have ground troops on Iran’s doorstep as sitting ducks holding some shithole oil depot? God forbid a bunch of marines are injured or killed holding this stupid island, and then what happens? We just take our ball and go home? LOL you and I both know that’ll just be the excuse for the next incremental boots on the ground good idea fairy. Do you guys not see the escalation ladder clearly laid out in front of us? You guys keep saying you won’t support a 20 year nation building boondoggles. Great, thanks for that. Super easy to say in hindsight. But you all seem completely blind to (or supportive of) the incremental escalations sitting right in front of us, that are leading us down this path.

What’s important to remember about executive branch scope creep and abuse of power is that its only bad when the other side does it. When your own side does it, it’s just an unfortunate reality/status quo of the times we live in.

@Lord Ratner it’s a fun non-argument from Coleman but please tell me what Russia and China developing nukes slightly ahead is schedule 70 years ago has to do with a DNI report on Iran from 2025. Netanyahu has been saying Iran is weeks from a bomb for 30 years, so which is it? Are they ahead of schedule or behind schedule? Silly me I guess I just read the current intel reports from the current people doing the job. But to your second bigger point, there are numerous other countries that have enriched uranium and set up infrastructure to have what is referred to as a “latent nuclear deterrent.” Germany, South Korea, Japan, Brazil, Argentina, and a few others are all considered to have the volume of enriched material and technology to rush to a bomb if they need to. Iran may very well have been in this category too but by all available intel they were not pursuing a weapon. These countries do this as a bargaining chip and insurance policy—basically “don’t fuck with us because we could rush to a bomb if we wanted to.” By any rational analysis this is what Iran was doing. They want regime survival and not to be fucked with. They aren’t irrational head choppers who are going to fire a nuke the first second they get their hands on one because they know Israel has nukes too and would be headed right back their way. A latent nuclear deterrent is the middle ground they were shooting for where they don’t have to have the risk of having a bomb on paper but have some the bargaining power of the ability to make one. I guess if you think launching a war to deny them that bargaining power is a good thing.. fair enough. But it’ll be hard to prevent it forever.