TurnHer4

Im a Guard/Vance 2.5er, graduated earlier this year. No issues with the FSDO. Just make sure you have all the necessary docs and take the test.

If I remember correctly, Vance had F-22,F-35, a few Vipers, A-10, and a T-6 FAIP on the AD side.

Shoot me a PM

Hahaha you seem upset, did I say something to "trigger" you? You even resorted to name calling lol. Not sure if your entire post was directed at me, but I'll address your points. Again, I am a black male, right leaning millennial, probably more right after the latest foolishness. I'm not a victim, never said I was. I'm doing damn well right now despite the things I've faced in my past. Doesn't mean I can't bring those things up in discussion. I'm not here to change anyone's mind as I've said before. I'm here to get a different perspective and get an idea of why different people see things the way they do, also to provide my own perspective for others to see. I appreciate all the viewpoints here, even the ones I don't agree with. I was damn good on AD. I have the strats, records, and reputation to prove it. Never DNIF, never pulled off a sortie for any reason. I think that had a lot to do with me getting picked up to go to UPT in the Guard. But I'm not here to dick measure. I know some people just like the ones you described, they come from all sorts of backgrounds. I too commanded (flight) some of them. Know what I did? Had a one on one, one sided discussion on how they needed to unfornicate themselves and pull their weight. If they couldn't, me and the gang picked up the slack. I don't have time for complaints and weakness. As far as my car (1985 Cutlass Supreme) it was trash when I found it. Put rally wheels, white letter racing tires, 2 chamber flow master exhaust, single color (green) paint job, not to mention what I did under the hood. It wasn't the way you described it as, it was a sick car in my opinion. And I worked hard to get it to where I wanted to be. Not the best I have for racism, thats just the example you chose to pull out (sts) and thats fine. Doesn't make what I said not valid. I can write a book about the racist shit I've experienced in the south, you'd downplay that as well I'm guessing. Not going to, those experiences helped make me who I am. Made me more aware of my surroundings, where I can and can't go, and what I can and can't say. Also it made me open my mind to people that think differently than me. They don't know me, what happened in their life to make them see me the way they do? It helped me learn more about the world I was living in and how to live in it. My cutlass was stolen a few years ago. I was able to convince my wife to let me buy another one, and I'm in the middle of bringing it back to glory. I still get racially profiled in it, but that's apart of my life. Here's the thing, I should be able to drive whatever car I want without being pulled over and searched having done nothing wrong. I can get pulled over, unreasonably searched, and I have to comply under the threat of physical harm or death. That's not what freedom is my friend. I should be able to go where I want, when I want, in the car I want. If you're not ok with that, I don't have much for you and that's your opinion. I think your opinion may be that, that example is minuscule, and I agree. Doesn't mean that it's right. Just providing some perspective to the thread, that's all. I want there to be zero racist commanders, but I know that's not possible. I've learned to navigate that. I have many bros that think just like you. I tell all my black friends, I CANNOT and WILL NOT exile people that think the way you do. We need to hear what you have to say as well. Last week I got a bourbon and a cigar with a good friend of mine that has the same line of thinking as you. We talked about it like the grown ass men that we are, learned from each other, shook hands (yes, even during the "pandemic"), and made plans to continue the discussion down the road. That's why I don't post here much. I'd rather sip some Basil Hayden's and have a face to face discussion about these topics. But hey...I could be a mildly retarded clown. Think I've only been called that once, by my dad. Maybe that old bastard is right. Hope you're enjoying being out of the AF. If I run into you down the road, first bourbon is on me.

I'll have to dig for those examples. Admittedly anecdotal. Specific example from personal experience. I was an RA in college, and one of my residence tag was stolen. So I called campus police. While we were getting it worked out, I asked the cop why I had been harassed by campus police for the past 3 years. He said oh shit, you're the guy that drives that green cutlass supreme. I said yeah that one right there. He said oh we thought you were a local drug dealer. We have a profile on you at the precinct. I asked why. He said remember a while back when campus SWAT rolled you up (yes we had a SWAT team for some reason. I said yeah wtf was that about. He said a lady called us and said you were selling drugs in a parking lot and had a prostitute with you. I said yeah I had to get my Det CC to come out and convince them I was a student and in ROTC. He said we asked her why she made the call and she said because he's black and drives a ghetto green car. After your commander came out, we were still convinced you were dealing, because honestly you look like a drug dealer and your car screams drug dealer. So whenever we saw you, we would follow you, or pull you over to see if you had anything in the car. I said I appreciate your honesty, but take me off your wall. He said he would, and I was never bothered again. You may think thats just good policing, I think that's ed up. On your isolated incident comment; a guy driving an 80s mobile got busted with drugs and now anyone that resembles that description is treated as such. It's happened to me. I was pulled over going home and the cop said "you just look suspicious man" I was just driving down the street. But because of a few isolated incidents in my area, I was treated like a criminal. So I get it, it sucks. If you believe there is racism, but you don't believe people will use their position, power, job etc to hold other people down I find that hard to believe. And I think that happens with all races. It's on both sides, and that's why I'm trying to bridge the gap. Can you give me an example of a minority receiving privileges of this society more than the majority? I'd like to hear that. I love this discussion. Thats one thing I like about the AF. We can have differing opinions, talk about it and learn from one another. It will not effect our mission. I have a solid bro that thinks along the same lies as some of you. We as black officers can't exile him. We need to listen and understand his perspective. I can trust him to execute on the jet, and vice versa with our differing views. We're gonna go rage and when we get back, have a beer and continue the discussion. Just because he thinks a certain way doesn't mean he's not a solid bro. I think some people are missing that.

All of those instances are certainly nuanced. There is always more to the story, but my truth may not be someone else's. I see people placing those labels on people like you all the time, and it is unwarranted. At the same time, I've been called a thug, gangsta, you name it. Also unwarranted. As a right leaner myself, I see it. I feel like I was punished for my skin color and where I grew up. It indeed sucks. Could you imagine someone not liking you or thinking you're a threat just based on skin color or where you were raised. I think you can based on your post. Believe me, I'm having these discussions on both sides. I 100% agree we can't go backwards, but I don't think we are. We definitely can not apply the same mindset towards whites, it's counterproductive. I think I saw someone say they were the silent majority. Well, I'm in the silent majority of black people that want to move forward. We don't want BLM on jerseys or mounds or courts. Or the black national anthem played at games, we don't want those things. What we want are the things I've posted today. But we're being over shadowed by the noise makers and "the other side" is taking that and placing that on all the people that want real change. BUT! In the words of the legend Capt Jack Sparrow, "Take what you can, give nothing back" No movement is perfect and I feel like folks are asking for it to be perfect before they are willing to listen. I don't think the country was founded on racism. I do know that when they said all men are created equal, they didn't mean black people. Dope discussion bro, thanx for your question.

Excellent question. The answer is the same way you get better at being an aviator. And that's in the debrief. Which is what I think is happening right now on this thread. Take off the rank, biases, etc and have an open discussion. Listening to the feedback and applying it. I say we need to get people to understand that there are those that have hatred in their heart for minorities and non-minorities a like.Racism in most cases is covert and subtle. I ask that when we see it from anyone, squash that shit. I want you to understand my perspective and to not down play the way I view something. You may not every see it, but if and when you do, call it out. I understand what Guardian is saying, and I'll reflect on that. I ask that others do the same with different perspectives.

@Guardianexcellent discourse, I really appreciate your perspective. And I'm not here to change your mind. I think everything stated above was racially motivated, but thats my opinion. I do think the system is racist, heres why. Those people that called the cops on me, did it because of my skin color. Beyond that, they both have jobs. What I mean by that is, we can agree that racism exists. I don't think that hate and resentment towards minorities stops when they go to work. Racist people are in the system, and I believe that some of them allow it to cloud their judgement. When overt racism became uncool at the turn of the century, those people didn't stop being racist, it's just undercover now. I agree the BLM moniker is tainted. But from what you're saying, you understand that there is an issue, but others won't join because of the BLM moniker....that makes sense, I can understand that. I brought up the OKC issue to point to BLM here isn't tearing down stuff, looting, or rioting. I agree with you. And it's a call to celebrities in and from the area to help. MLK did say a riot is the language of the unheard. However, I agree. I don't like some of the things I've been seeing. Hopefully you don't think I think a whole race of people are racist because of MLK, I don't. I brought it up to show that it wasn't that long ago, and people that think that way are still alive. Most of us fully understand all whites aren't racist. We're trying to bring attention to those that are. I don't like preferential treatment either. But I also don't like people thinking I received preferential treatment to get where I am. I'm just damn good at what I do. Example. One of my peers (at the direction of some other peers) had enough balls to tell the Sq CC that we had too many black flt ccs. We had 2. 2 out of 10. I was one of them. Got Flt cc OTY at the group level, and the other guy got it the year after me. But some say we got it because we were black. Further, who ever these people are, are going to stay in the AF and continue their careers with that mind set. Thats bad in my book. But I'll continue to overcome that. As far as the system, there is a disparity from that I'm seeing. Brock Turner got 6 months for raping a woman an unconscious woman behind a dumpster. My cousin got 3 years for a dime bag of weed. That white lady that paid 15k for her kid to get into Stanford got 14 days in jail. A black homeless woman who used a friend's address to get her son into elementary school got 5 years. The change I'm trying to see is everyone being treated equally. I want the white racist that call the cops on blacks for nothing to stop. That fact that it's ok to use the police as a weapon against someone that has committed no crime is heinous. What police do when they get there is a different story. I've seen your post, and I'm aware you have different views. I see the world differently as well. I see it from an inner city kid perspective that made it out. Someone who couldn't go to schools in a certain areas, that was only looking for an opportunity to make it out. Believe it or not, not all of those kids believe they can make it out ( I didn't) and that's a shame because they can. The change I'm looking for is for us to get into those communities and show those kids it's possible. For me it was a white Capt in a flight suit at an inner city high school football game, where there are shootouts every weekend. After my game I asked him if he was a pilot, I wanna be a pilot. He said yes. I told him, you're brave for coming here. He said there is untapped potential in your neighborhood, so you want to be a pilot? And the rest is history. That's what I want. Also, I don't see that as preferential treatment because all I received was information on how to become a pilot that I didn't have access to/didn't know existed. You can believe everyone starts on equal footing if you want, but that's not true where I'm from. The change I want is for those of us that have made it, to reach back and help others, regardless of race. Get in those neighborhoods. There are 100 of me in each of those neighborhoods, just looking to take the next step, but they don't know where to place their foot. I don't think the fabric is racist. The behavior I'm speaking of is what's happened throughout America's time. The raping, pillaging, looting, and murder of the Native Americans. The enslavement of Africans. We literally fought a war to end slavery, and the beliefs of those on the losing side have been passed down. I'm saying rioting/fighting, and forcing people to bend to our will is what made this country into what it is today. That stuff happened, it's in the past, but it is history. I don't think we can dwell on it, but I do think it's important to understand that blood has been spilt by this country since it's inception. It has made us the greatest country on the planet, but my patriotism leads me to believe it can be even better.

Thanx, I'll be waiting for the title of the book. Dope knowledge on MLK, thank you for that insight. That's not where I'm headed. What 'm saying is, that behavior is in the fabric of America.

Not off base at all. I appreciate the response, and I'm glad to discuss it with you or whoever else would like to. I see your point. I think BLM has been taken out of context by it's leadership. We don't all agree with what they're doing. But at it's core, BLM is a good cause. Example: The number 1 demand for OKC's BLM chapter is a grocery store on the inner city east side. They can't even get groceries in their own neighborhood. The deeper issue is where they have to go to get groceries...the areas that "they don't belong" Fully agree BLM's leadership has gone rouge. That doesn't mean there aren't people out there looking for real change. I ask that you look beyond that and see the good that is happening. People like to bring up MLK for his contributions...absolute legend. However, that Civil Disobedience you speak of got him voted as the most hated man in America in 1967, and murdered in 1968. Btw the bullet didn't kill him...they let him die on the table. I agree with the pandering comment. Playing the Black National Anthem before a game, won't do anything for anyone. Help us. Help others to understand that we don't all want to tear down this country, we just won't people to listen and understand. Also, I'm fully against looters, not so much riots. However, not much has been accomplished civilly in this country when it comes to change.

For those of you that are tired of the Social Justice stuff before and during sporting events, I get it. Hell, I even agree a little. However, I am more tired of being racially profiled/discriminated against. Being pulled over, because "you look suspicious" or having the cops called on me while standing in my own drive way smoking a cigar by the new couple in the neighborhood that didn't think I could have a house that nice. And then having to convince the cops that it was actually my house. Or having parents bring their kids in when my wife and I walk by. Or having some of my peers thinking I got the strat/award because I was black, and not because I actually busted my ass. I was detained once because I "fit the description" Didn't ask me my name or anything like that. Cuffed and placed in the car. Then he searched me and found my wallet...and my cac. Knowing I had done nothing wrong, but more importantly I had a cac, I figured I'd be ok. That's the world I live in everyday. That's most of our reality. The issue is, most of us can't flash the cac to get treated like a human being. Imagine a young kid who's done nothing wrong being cuffed and detained for no reason, and how he may react. I've had to deal with that for 30 years, and will continue to deal with it for many more. I'll be just fine. But I hope you guys can understand why it's happening. We've been trying to have this conversation for centuries, people are just now starting to listen and understand. I'm a believer that a slogan or phrase does nothing...it's not actionable. But I can't scoff at the effort that is being made.

To the OP. No one here is trying to "crap" on you. @HU&Wgave you feedback that some people pay for. There is a shit ton of knowledge on this forum, I'm sure that's why you came here. Take that feed back and apply it. You wanna do CAS, A-10s and Vipers are the way to go. If you end up AD, the Strike Eagle does a lot of CAS. (Check my math, but I don't think the Strike Eagles Reserve unit hires off the street) When you say you want CAS and then mention the F-35/F-22, but don't mention the Viper, it throws some people off. That is where the research piece comes in. Look into the Viper more. You simply know what you want, that may be true. However, the feedback you're getting here is to keep an open mind. As someone that hasn't been through UPT (myself included...hoping for Vance sometime in 2020) you don't know if you'll like that type of flying yet. They are only speaking from experience. I say keep pushing for what you want, with an understanding that for some reason or another, you may not end up there. But where ever it is, you'll like it. If you haven't already, look into some Viper Guard/Reserve units.

That was the case until Covid hit. Not sure what it's like for Co's now. Not all of them got to go when I was deploying.

Check page 5 of this thread about half way down to see my post about AWACS. Im outta the game now (headed to UPT with the ANG) but it's still mostly true. I'm still in OKC and most of the bros are still at Tinker so I spend quite a bit of time there. I was an evaluator at the FTU before I left AD, so I still know most of the IPs there. Shoot me a PM if you need more specifics.

Been on the forum for years, just don't ever post. I think the environment I spoke of builds our attitudes and how we show emotion and stress. Growing up in a rough area is no doubt hard. Here's why. Kids are being exposed to things adults that didn't grow up there could never imagine. Shootings, drugs, murders, dead bodies, all at a young age. That does something to an individual. Could even be some sort of PTSD. I've been shot at, robbed, stabbed, etc. It changes you. So when we show up, we sometimes get labeled as nonchalant and not caring. But we've seen so much shit at a young age that what's happening on flights, in MP, etc may be super stressful but to us, it beats a day in the hood. Most of my friends from childhood are dead or in jail. I'm numb to those phone calls now, because I've pushed that pain deep down. My first deployment I controlled 120 plus planes in OIR for 4 hours by myself, didn't break a sweat. But my upbringing wouldn't allow me to show that I wanted to pop the lock and jump out. But I came across as not caring. So when you see something like that, alert the bros that some individuals operate that way. We get that label often. It's hard to see racism. We don't usually know until an ally alerts us. When you hear things about black airman, don't dismiss it. Try and understand the situation and what could have brought that about. When you see it, stomp it out. Had a black airman that had a flat top hair cut come to me and say the shirt said my hair is out of regs, I need to cut it. I do Flap Top February ever year, so he knew I would know. I told him, looks fine to me. Found a white airman, who's hair was actually out of regs rocking a flat top and went to the shirt. "Shirt, you said airman xyz had to cut his hair?" Yeah Capt, out of regs. "Cool, so what about this airman's hair cut? Same one, but actually out of regs" No, he's good to go. That's when I close the door and have a discussion with the shirt. When you see and hear stuff like that, speak up. Happens every day. To have equality, I think we need to understand that everyone has different upbringings and backgrounds. By that I mean understand who that person is, and why they approach things the way they do. What have they seen that has shaped their perception of reality. What you can learn from them and what they can learn from you. Like Dream Big said, we can learn from each other. We've made legit strides on this. We know it wouldn't be possible without you dudes helping along the way. We can continue to grow and get better.

I don't post here a lot, so I'll say this and go back into hiding. We literally fought a war about states rights...to own slaves. Right side won. Slaves are freed. Lincoln had a lot to do with that...he was assassinated. Now black folks have to pull themselves up by their boot straps. No education, no skills, don't own any of our inventions, nothing. Cool. We pulled ourselves up, and started to thrive. We had our own schools, churches, hospitals, banks, etc. Those that hate us, couldn't handle it. So comes the Tulsa massacre in 1921. Burned down schools, churches, hospitals, banks, killed the men, and raped the women in front of the children. This happened in other parts of the country as well. But pull yourself up by your bootstraps. We did it again. Those that hate us didn't like it. Lynchings and burnings came along, also Jim Crow. While blacks were in WWI and WWII when they returned home, they were not given those same freedoms they went to a foreign land to fight for. Returned home to racism and segregation. Most weren't recognized until they died. JFK comes along and tries to help, does some good work...assassinated. Desegregation comes along. But then the country is redlined so we can only live in certain pockets of the country. Well now we can vote and make things better in our community, but the voting lines are redrawn to lesson the black vote. Now the funding for schools, banks, etc go to the "other neighborhoods" Well this isn't right. Lets peacefully protest. Those that hate us didn't like that. My parents and grandparents were in the street when Bull Connor unleashed the dogs and fire hoses on peaceful protesters in Birmingham. We had a voice, MLK...assassinated. Malcolm X comes along and tries it a different way...assassinated. Then comes the crack epidemic, and guns flooding black neighborhoods. We didn't own anything. We didn't own planes or boats to get any of this stuff in, or even leave the neighborhood to go buy such things. But it showed up. How did it get there? Now we have rich drug dealers and poor addicts. Violence ensues over these things. War on drugs happens. Dads/Uncles (dealers) are sent to prison. Addicts are still in the street. Who takes care of the children? No one, they raise themselves...in that environment. That's all they know. No one was coming into these communities to shed light on other options in life or a way to make it out. You gonna go to school, or sell a dime bag so you can eat tonight? We are still recovering from that. Moving into the 21st century, it's no longer cool to be racist out in the open. Those people didn't change their views they just went into hiding. I say this not to blame folks, but to shed light on a few of the things the black community has faced. Yet, we still overcome and thrive. BUT if you think racism no longer exist, you're sadly mistaken. If you think racist haven't infiltrated our Sqs, Grps, Wgs, etc you're sadly mistaken. They are still out there, my black bro's and I see it often. We're not playing victim, and we aren't weak, but they still try us. Example, at my last Sq there was almost 20 flights and shops. 3 black flight ccs and a black shop chief. Some one had gotten enough complaints from others and had enough balls to complain to the CC that there were "too many" of us in leadership. Thats just one example. If you want more examples of racism me and the bros have seen on AD, we can take it to the PMs. I'm not saying you guys are wrong, I value your input and opinion. My issue is when we bring this stuff up, it gets dismissed and or downplayed. Having someone tell me my experiences didn't happen or "thats not what they meant" is ridiculous. If you can't see that black people have been oppressed and that those that oppressed us are still alive and or have passed those teachings down to their children, there's not a lot I can say. We just want a fair shake. I/We shouldn't be treated differently because of our skin color, that's it. I see a lot of you thinking of this as political, I don't see it that way. It's human rights. Conservatives/Leftist/libtards or whatever doesn't matter right now. I went a bit long. I'll go back into hiding now. If I ever see you dudes in the real world, first one is on me.

Unless there are fallouts, that is correct from what I've been told.

Check this thread out. Some of it might be dated, but still some good data

Haven't looked at this in a while, not sure where you are in the process. Shoot me a PM with your questions. To answer one of your questions, I get to do some cool things, on and off the jet. Even knowing what I know now, I'd do it again.

13B on the backend of the E-3 here. Don't think there many any E-3 pilots on this forum. I'll give you the data I have though. 1. Ops Tempo You can expect to be deployed for 4 months and then home for a year. (Currently in the desert for my 3rd in 2.5 years, that is rare) Deployments can wear you down with how long our sorties are. TDYs are plenty and go all over the World. You can expect 4 to 5 TDYs during the year off. When my Sq gets back we're doing WTI, Maple Flag, Red Flag, and Green Flag West. That's just the schedule through September. Home station, you can expect to fly at least once a week, maybe less. We have a ton of Co-Pilots flowing in. Home station sorties are standard at 7.5 hours, 10.0 with a tanker. Normally you're home by 1700 unless you have a late show. Just an assumption, but I think we are the only platform that shows as early as we do. Some shows are 0330 to take off at 0600 to meet a morning vul on the East Coast at 0900. I don't mind them. But I'm just hanging out in the back until we get enough altitude to turn the systems on. 2. Life Style/ Family Stability I think AWACS has a great Life Style and its not too bad on the family. Like I said above, most days you're home by 1700. In most cases you know a year in advance when your going to deploy. TDYs are fragged out early. You have plenty of time to plan. We have to plan early since there are 20 people on a crew, If we bring 3 crews, an MPC, Staff, and MX to Vegas, that's a lot of people to put up in lodging so we have to get out in front of it. There is lot's of buffoonery, however. Example: Got married in Sept of 16, we deployed in Nov 16. The CC canceled my Honey Moon because I would miss the Road to War Brief on the first day of Spin-Up (for my 3rd deployment). Wife was not pleased. Also, showing at 0330 to find out the jet is on jacks in Doc 2 with a massive hydro leak. May be ready at 0900 or it may not, but you can't leave the Sq until we know for sure. Things like that happen here and there. 3. Morale Can't speak on the front end morale, but they all seem to enjoy it. I've heard the jet is a beast and fun to fly. The backend morale is damn low. There is sometimes a divide between the front end and back end. The MCC usually an O-4 or O-5 owns the back end. However, the AC usually an O-3 or above owns the jet and is responsible for it's safety. Backend needs to go to the East Coast to get in a Viper SEAD Vul, but flight deck needs to go Dyess to get some off station transition. So training priorities become an issue as well, it's normally hashed out on MP day prior to fly day. If we take off late or something moves in the timeline, it's usually a discussion in the air. 4. Advancements & Future of the Airframe E-3s are getting a flight deck upgrade. Not sure when it will be completed. But the flight deck bros are all excited about it except the Navs. We have old no glass gauges and it's being upgraded to glass(see AWACS Dragon Mod.) There is another upgrade that I'm not familiar with, but it will no longer require a Nav. The E-3 will be around for a while. When we're up and everything is working like it should, there isn't a lot we can't see and can't listen to. With 20 radios and an unlcassed radar range of 250NM, not a lot of platforms can provide that kind of capability. 5. Preferred PCS Location If you're AWACS, "Mother Tinker" will always bring you back. Pilots have 3 locations they can PCS to from Tinker. Elmo, Kadena, and GK. Preferences are all over the place. Just depends on what that individual wants. Most folks say any where but Tinker. And that includes white jets. If you have more questions, feel free to PM me. If I don't know the answer, I'll track down my AC and get the data. Lot of great stuff on this thread. Full disclosure, I'm looking to get to UPT in a year or so. TurnHer

Tinker guy here. Don't know much about JSTARS. Got a lot of bros PCSing to CRCs, so I know a little about that. PM me with any questions you have.