SuperWSO

He was good at one thing - spending money. Other peoples money. Spending money? Check. I wish we had more F-22s personally, but this wasn't about anything but money. Refer to this conservative propaganda site, the Huff Post Spending money? Check. Nice things about dead guy, thats a given. Spending money? Check. His other notables include being just short of indicted in the Abscam sting. Quotable quote - "The FBI videotaped Murtha responding to an offer of $50,000, with Murtha saying, "I'm not interested... at this point." He was cited by the Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW) as one of the most corrupt members of congress. Most of the allegations surround his dealings with defense contractors. Some good may have come to the military, but I don't think that excuses outright corruption. Oh, and yes, he did turn on his fellow Marines in Iraq. This is not the kind of "friend" I look for in the military or government.

Thinking about this a little longer, Randy Cunningham would be the poster child for a great military career that was left behind. He didn't bring any lessons learned with him to his second career. John Murtha was mentioned previously and is another example of an anti-military "veteran".

I know a lot of guys in uniform that I wouldn't trust to watch my house over a long weekend, let alone make decisions about the future of our country. I consider military service a definite plus. All other things being equal, they have a better shot at understanding leadership and have probably been outside the CONUS (seeing the rest of the world tends to open ones eyes). I've voted for Democrats who politically lined up with what I believe (Charlie Stenholm in TX) but the Republicans tend to represent my views more consistently.

I am well past 10. I have to say I really don't understand the urge to get out when you are 4/5ths of the way to getting paid for the rest of your life. If it comes down to your marriage or your career, I can respect that decision, but I will say that the 4 or 5 times I've heard about that ultimatum, the dude gets out and then the divorce happens 6 months later. Honestly, unless Big Blue hands me a pocket knife and tells me to start clearing mine fields, I can't think of a reason to quit that close to the finish line. Not even if the Airlines needed me to sit behind the pilot and ask if we are over St Paul yet.

Before you get to the 10 year commitment, you should have passed through some form of officer training, and several months of waiting for your flight training to start. Once it starts, you have a year (or more if the Navy is involved) of flight training. There was a guy at Sheppard when I was there who SIE'd because he just didn't like it. He was an Academy grad who didn't have to fight for the slot and just went to try it out. I had to fight back the tremendous urge to throat punch the dude for wasting a slot. I don't think you accept the commitment until the end of training - the peanut gallery will correct me if I am wrong.

I'm glad you weren't one of the guys bashing Marines for their literacy. That would just be embarrassing. No, in this thread, it would be ######ing embarrassing. Some problems spell check just won't fix.

When I did my last deployment with the Army, it was taken as gospel that the AF gave AF dudes deployed with the Army "Substandard Quarters Allowance". The ALO and I got this from just about every Army guy we worked with. When we said it didn't exist, they just told us we were missing out on big bucks.

In the fiftys, the big talking point was when we would become an "all jet" Air Force. Nice goal at the time, but we still aren't there and since our most recent acquisitions (MC-12, U-28, MQ-1,9, AT-6) are all prop driven, I don't think we are going to get there. Somebody probably put together a white paper about an all UAV/UAS fleet by 2047, but it will be a cold day in hell before I get on a C/KC anything without a pilot. I know this has been discussed under other threads previously, but there is no benefit to removing the aviator from an aircraft loaded with people.

Yeah, the pilots helmet makes it hard to see shit off the nose.

Jarhead, that is gross. Who wants to see a 99 year old ass? Oh wait, you meant the pistol.

Is it just me or is this thread beginning to look alot like another one on this page? I vote we change the name of this thread to "Should ROTC cadets be allowed to serve openly?"

M2 I will start by agreeing that Ralph Peters is an f-ing tool. He did an article in 2005 while I was deployed that said the Air Force was doing nothing for the war. He is a highly opinionated asshole. Where we still disagree is on Hasan. You have repeatedly stated that he was nothing but a disgruntled office shooter. The typical office shooter is responding to a perceived injustice. The folks at work have wronged him/denied advancement/stole his tuna on rye. Maybe he is just listening to the voices in his head. The office shooter typically goes to a location where he knows the victims and shoots those people. What is a terrorist? The government defines it as ... (d) Definitions As used in this section— (1) the term “international terrorism” means terrorism involving citizens or the territory of more than 1 country; (2) the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents; Hasan went to a public place and attacked people he did not know personally. He struck out against a group (soldiers deploying or returning from deployment)as a form of politically motivated violence. Most of your arguments site that Hasan was not a member in a recognized terrorist group. Tim McVeigh was never linked to any group other than loose affiliations with Aryan groups - kind of like Hasan. But he was absolutely a terrorist. He was also striking back at "the government" by attacking the Murrah Federal building. I don't think that Hasan's failure to attend group meetings, have a PLO Union card or dress in an IRA T-shirt means that he was not a terrorist. Like you said, that is just my opinion.

You.

I'll put in a vote for Military by owner. We sold our house in Abilene without a realtor and saved ourselves a bunch of money. That was our second sale by owner, so I would say to talk to someone who has done an FSBO previously.

Well, since you mentioned it - I think I saw this somewhere else on Baseops, but it seems to fit the current discussion. Its in Italian, so I'm not sure but I think he says they make him wear a reflective belt.

Tripilot, I have worked three jobs in my life. I worked at a drug store as a cashier/stock clerk/everything else. I've worked at a state University running computer labs, and I have worked for the Air Force. I don't know if you have ever seen the movie Office Space, but that movie reminded me of the crappy points of every job I have ever worked. No matter what you choose to do, there will be somebody in the office who bitches about it, there will always be a boss who "doesn't get it", there will always be changes that seem arbitrary. It is the same for trash truck drivers and AF Thunderbirds. Ask yourself this question - will having to put on a reflective belt in broad daylight (what the hell, even clown shoes and a rubber nose) really detract from flying a jet, blowing stuff up, traveling around the world, etc. Everyone here will tell you that putting on a bag (flight suit) entitles the wearer to bitch about anything and everything under the sun. A few folks get tired and get out, but those folks probably feel the grass is always greener somewhere else. In my experience - it isn't. Thats my 2 cents.

First things first. I can only share my experience, but when I went to Pensacola, there were 4 or 5 guys who were the biggest talkers. They KNEW they were going to be Strike Eagle guys. At least 3 of those guys SIE'd after a couple rides. Your milage may vary, but some folks get in an airplane and find out that breathing through a hose, smelling exhaust fumes and trying to figure out what is happening while puking just isn't their thing. The B-1 is still a great deal for CSO/WSOs (the AF can call you whatever it wants - I suspect the Bone community will have WSOs for years to come.) I'll go with Dupes format because it works pretty well. Pros: The Bone is a platform that was built around the OSO/DSO team. We have been working since I got there to break down the barriers for information flow, but the OSO still owns the primary sensors (radar/pod) and has primary responsibility for weapons release. The DSO is the only crew member with the full threat picture and full access to countermeasures. The crew employs as a team, but the job doesn't get done without you. Much like the F-15E, the Bone's future has improved tremendously since Allied Force. We are getting yearly block upgrades to the software, we have incorporated the Sniper Pod, and we are looking at updates to the radar that will provide unmatched capabilities. One of the big capabilities the Bone has added in recent years is the ability to mix weapon loads. While many platforms carry JDAM, CBU, Mk-82/84 or LGBs, Bones can carry all of them - at the same time. Another big upgrade scheduled in the next few years is the Fully Integrated Data Link which will bring new controls and displays to the jet. Cons: Right now, there are three B-1 Ops squadrons. That means that you can count on a 1:2 dwell ratio. Basing options are also limited. We have Ellsworth AFB and Dyess AFB. Most guys love Ellsworth. If your single, Dyess probably won't be your favorite, but it is a great town to raise a family. Currently, B-1 WSOs are sharing the Alpha tours with co-pilots, so there is a chance that you may have to go back to Pensacola or serve as an ALO. There are also opportunities at Eglin, Nellis and Edwards, but those are fairly universal (Not B-1 WSO specific). Follow ons: This part is also not specific to the B-1. I am currently serving in a staff position. From what AFPC is saying, almost everyone can be expected to go back to the cockpit after a non-flying tour. I have never seen a successful B-1 to F-15E transition, but I know guys who have transitioned to MC-130s, B-52s, RC-135s and EA-6s. Now that those are going out of the mix, I don't know if the Growler will be an option. I've enjoyed my time in the B-1 and hope to go back once I get paroled from Space Command.

Look up the "Hollow force" of the Carter years. If you think we are doing more with less now, the late 70's would water your eyes. The AF was drawing down from Vietnam and had no incentive to keep/take care of people. They also were not paying to maintain jets. As a dependant, I saw it when we lost my friends dad and my scout leader in separate class A accidents. As was stated previously, these are not "new" problems. Just re-packaged in ABUs and reflective belts.

The only time that the F-4s flew without WSOs was a brief period during Vietnam when the AF tried to put two pilots in a jet. It didn't work out well, and the AF went back to the pilot/WSO team. It is worth noting that two of the three AF Aces from Vietnam were F-4 WSOs who subsequently attended UPT. As for other fighters, there were the wild weasels - both F-4 and F-105(EWO, but still wearing Nav wings) F-111s, F-101s, and others I'm sure I am forgetting.

Opinions may vary, but WSO/CSO is undeniably a career field in decline. With that said, I am confident that you could serve out a full career in the Bone or F-15E. The AF does not even have replacement platforms on the horizon for either aircraft. The F-35 (sans WSO) is supposed to replace the F-16, A-10, and Strike Eagle, but it won't have the same legs or many of the Strike Eagles capabilities. Besides, the F-15E is one of our newest fighter airframes - it should have lots of hours left. Navs may start to phase out of the traditional Nav airframes in the next decade, but WSO platforms were designed for two or four bodies, and pilots won't ride around behind other pilots, so I think your odds are pretty good.

Oh crud, I'm gonna have to start checking the NOTAMs before commercial flights. At what RVR do RBs become mandatory? Departure or landing airfield?

REMF, I'm not "over there" at the moment, but I think your time has been well spent on this thread. It provides some perspective instead of continuing a one sided rant. Please continue.

I'm starting to wonder if someone at Air War College is now briefing this site to the future leaders of the world based on recent responses. We had B52IR99 coming off the top rope on his first post over in the "Minot Wing/CC canned" thread." We have REMF who is actually value added, but looks like he was sent to quell the uprising, and now we have Cptmorgan - again trying to come off the top rope with his "shut up and color" first post. I'm seeing a trend toward more supervision at BaseOps. I never had the illusion that this was completely anonymous, but it appears that the word is getting out - we even had a tops in blue dude in that thread. WTF?

So if you can't have your glasses on indoors, but they can't be on your head, hanging from your shirt or suspended around your neck - where are they supposed to go? In your PT pockets? Oh those don't exist! Do they have an airman running a "sunglasses check" at the door of each facility? It seems like they have regulated away every conceivable option in this case.

You've got a point. I still don't understand how it can be a uniform without rank insignia. Just imagine, 12 months from now, you will here the tink, tink, tink of your ribbons hitting the concrete as you do pushups in your modified PT/mess dress ensemble.