HeloDude

So you’re suggesting that when China invades Taiwan that we end all economic interaction with China? China doesn’t “follow the rules” now (assuming the rules involve not being tyrannical to your own population and not threatening Taiwan) and yet I’d be willing to bet you have bought something made in China within the last few months.

I don’t know Lloyd, the French are assholes.

This is a joke, right? “John Kerry fears Russia-Ukraine war will distract from climate change” https://www.foxnews.com/politics/john-kerry-russia-ukraine-war-climate-change

I appreciate you taking the time to respond—good debate. Agree to disagree. Back to the Ukraine stuff.

That’s most definitely still my answer. You can’t stand for the values of individual liberty when you’re literally using the opposite to keep those values. Birth rates—if they were to be on a serious decline, they can eventually have a very negative impact to society, right? That negative impact could very well in turn negatively impact the US’s ability to promote liberty and freedom across the world. So should the government force women to have children in order to set the birth rate to what the government needs/desires? You can laugh all you want, but if you’re willing to force an innocent adult male to stand in front of gun fire for what the state says is the security of the country (ummm Vietnam…ugh), then you have to ask yourself what else the state can force upon innocent citizens under the same concept of “security of the country”. This is a tough conversation to have because the majority of the country doesn’t want to believe that the power of the state to enforce X program to protect the country (which they support)…that this same power could be used to go against something they disagree with under the same desire for security. Just because this below was ordered by the state for the security of its nation, doesn’t change what it really was… https://apnews.com/article/tokyo-ap-top-news-cabinets-world-war-ii-japan-3dc00af0e6c618791eb4683d6807de64

Thanks for the response. What it comes down to is that the vast majority of people are only willing to stand up for their principles when it causes them very little (if any) change to their life style. Hence why right now the US and Europe is still buying oil/gas from Russia. I have zero problems admitting that I’ll continue buying products made in China after Taiwan is invaded. Doing so doesn’t mean you support the invasion anymore than buying fuel from Saudi Arabia equates to your support of their oppression of women. Now if I can get the same/similar product for close to the same price from somewhere else, then sure. This is what happens with massive global trade and being willing to partner with nations who don’t share foundational common ideals. To be fair, we’re getting further away in this country from sharing foundational common ideals.

Well…I mean I didn’t say that requiring an ID to vote is Jim Crow 2.0 like the Dems, or that our entire country is inherently racist, but sure, the libertarians are the weirdos. I’ll never apologize for being for individual liberty, and conscription is anything but that. Remove the emotion, and ask yourself why you think it’s ok when the state forces you do something when you’re just minding your own business and not hurting anyone vs when an individual forces you to do something?

Did he want to serve or fight—yes or no? If not, then most definitely. As for “preserving a way of life and a set of ideals”…according to whom? What if your way of life/ideals is to not be forced to fight in a war? I take it none of you commenting have read the Reason article I linked…

We disagree. Again, either you have freedom and liberty to decide not to do a certain job/fight in a war, or you don’t.

Korematsu vs United States I guess the imprisonment of Japanese Americans was cool too…you know, because of the Supreme Court. You can be for freedom and liberty or you can be for conscription—but you can’t be for both.

Like I said…the US is not some bastion of liberty that our songs have made us believe.

More/less what bfargin said. When China invades Taiwan, is everyone all of suddenly going to stop buying products that are made China?

Like I said…slavery. https://www.google.com/amp/s/reason.com/volokh/2018/10/19/why-mandatory-national-service-is-both-u/%3famp

If you force someone into a job/life that they don’t want, what do you call it?

I’m against our selective service registration as well. We’re not this great bastion of liberty that we like to sing about… If you can’t get enough of your people to voluntarily defend your country, then your country isn’t worth defending.

If/when (might bet is when) China invades Taiwan…for some reason I’m not so sure we’ll see the same outrage, sanctions, weapons supplies for Taiwan, etc that we’re seeing with Ukraine.

Ugh…spending more money (that we don’t have) and potential blood all with the ‘attempt’ (Afghanistan anyone?) at saving Ukraine from Russia? No thanks. As I said, there are people in this country who clearly want a fight, and it’s sad. This isn’t the days of the Cold War, and arguments can be made that all that military build up wasn’t that necessary. And today…it’s definitely not necessary. It’s about time we focused on our own issues as home—Ukraine is a great distraction. Not saying it’s not real, just not our problem. Oh and I was always against the government restrictions on its citizens due to COVID. Also, when the Ukraine government ordered that their adult males could not leave the country, I became less supportive of their “freedom” than before. I have always been against conscription—it’s literally slavery.

So we shoot down Russian aircraft in Ukraine before we stop buying their oil? Not sure I think that’s the best COA. My current opinion on the whole thing—I’m surprised that Putin went further than just the eastern regions that he declared “independent”. I thought at the beginning this would largely be a similar replay of 2014 in the Crimea, in which Putin was successful, but it appears (as of now) that I was wrong. I assumed he just wanted the eastern regions and then perhaps would go further west later in time. That all being said, I still think this is Putin’s to lose, but it all depends on what his objectives are and how much resources he’s willing to use/lose. One thing I still believe is certain—Putin is a bad dude, and I don’t see him retreating in defeat any time soon. He wants something, and I’m sure he’ll continue until he at least gets a piece of that something.

Brabus—nice Scorpion. What kind of brace do you have on it…if you do? (side note—I would conceal the serial number if I were you)

I actually support Biden not intervening militarily…and I’m not a huge proponent of aggressive sanctions as that will also hurt us economically. What I suggest is that if the European nations feel threatened by this action, then they should do something about it…but they won’t. Germany doesn’t want the energy turned off, and a legitimate European response can’t happen/won’t be nearly as effective without Germany. Putin knows all this. This is what happens when you (ie Europe) become weak militarily and culturally. They value expensive social programs vs security. Just getting upset about something doesn’t mean much. China is watching as well. If Ukraine wants to make a stand militarily then they should do so. I think their best chance at receiving any legitimate support from the west is to fight. There’s something to be said with seeing your (supposed) ally taking heavy military/civilian losses defending their borders. That all being said, I’m not so confident Europe would provide that legitimate support, so Ukraine won’t do much…and it will be somewhat of a similar replay of 2014 in the Crimea. So once again…what Putin is done is impressive. He’s taking what he wants and without much conflict (so far). Not saying it’s good, right, or just, but impressive all the same.

As I’ve been saying all along…Putin is playing Biden and Europe like a fiddle. It’s actually pretty impressive. And to the progressives and war-hawks on here, this isn’t a pro-Russia statement, rather just looking at the situation objectively and without emotion.

When the government gets to decide what is a “sincerely held religious belief” and what is not, and who can have them/not have them…then we have problems. I am anti-religious exemptions for anything when it comes to the government, and this includes vaccines. If an atheist doesn’t want a vaccine then that should hold no more/no less sway vs someone who doesn’t want one for personal religious reasons.

We get the government we deserve… Colorado is beautiful…just not beautiful enough to put up with their nonsense that will surely get worse and not better.

Perhaps Biden can just ask those leaders to allow Americans in their country illegally (with our without the shot)…afterall, Biden is cool with people coming into the US illegally without the shot. Yes—this is how messed up the left has become.