FourFans

The same reason there are 22 chiefs on this base who overpower the will of the Wing King. In his own words: "I got off the plane here with plans for no PT gear, flip flops, KBR food, and none of the stupidity like there is at the 'deid. But the chiefs here have killed every single idea." Don't ask me how that sh!t works...but it is completely f'ed up. Chiefs who have never been incountry coming here for their "combat" when they're less than a year from retiring. I had a chief tell me I needed to shave after my first flight, while I was still in ops...still wearing my weapon...while I was taking a piss! Anyone whose been a deployed commander type: How would you advise young LTs and Captains to deal with this kind of chickensh!t without getting themselves hosed in the process? I have yet to find an effective notch for these chief flyer-haters. I've mixed it up with these guys before (one example: see about) and every time I'm the one getting told to back down.

There is no "typical UPT class." There are only other classes and the class you are in. Every class has its on personality. In my experience, sadly, the classes that are populated by I-want-to-be-number-one dudes are generally the classes that suck to be around. However the classes with dudes that operate like a team at work and are best buds on their time off are generally the tighter classes that probably do better in the their drops. Do your best, have a good attitude, and accept what you get. If you just so happen to be in a class full of prodegies, accept it and learn as much as you can from them. Personal effort, Timing, and Attitude. Those are what impact where you go. Worrying about something you can't control will only distract and discourage you. Enough said on that. Be wary of your understanding of the "warrior type." Not all fighter dudes are cold blood killer, and all heavy dudes are pedestrians. Combat pilots in general should be smart and deadly. I personally believe that fighter dudes should also be able to transform into unibrowed, fang toothed, knuckle dragging killers that live in a container labeled "Break in Case of War", however, experience tells me it's not always like that. On the contrary, just because the plane doesn't have a gun on it doesn't mean warriors don't reside there. I'm currently deployed with some dudes who have more warrior in their little finger than some of the fighter guys I've met. Just something to keep in mind. Remember: It's all perspective. FourFans P.S. Make it two beers while you still can. [ 11. October 2006, 23:02: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

You've got that right! I've been here since June. The priorities are ALL jacked up here! The way the shoe clerks have been winning, it's amazing I can still access this site! edit: I need a beer... [ 02. October 2006, 15:41: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

Question: How is a descent profile that you can HEAR from 50 miles away "tactical." Extended thrust reversers may drop the plane faster than beer bottles on a weekend at Benders house, but when everyone within a 2 state radius knows you're there, you've kinda defeated the purpose of being "tactical."

Froggy, If you really want to make the decision that will lead to your wife being happy, let her decide for you. That way there's no burden on you! Now that you've realized you're not going to do that; sack up, and go where YOU want to go. Your family, your education, and the rest of your life will still be there no matter what path you take. Just realize that ALL paths require a lot of hard work, none are EASIER than the others. Fork in the road. First: Decide that you will be happy no matter where you go. Don't discount anything or say that if you end up in such-and-such you will hate your life, because you will. Second: Go kick ass where ever your path takes you. Focus on your job. If you are trying your best and you are happy with your job, your family will want to follow you, and your career/education will progress as it needs to. Bottomline is that there is no magical piece of advice that will make this choice an easy black and white, right-way-to-go wrong-way-to-go choice. Grab a pair, throw the dice where you think you should be, and see where Big Blue sends you. FourFans

Here's a discussion that started at my work and I want to offer up for discussion. My crew was broken at base X in the desert and a C-17 was parked next to us doing some lengthy stop. Curious, the loads and I went over for a look (we'd never toured Budda before). After a look around the back, I asked the loads were the pilots were and he pointed to the cockpit. I thought this rather strange seeing they were shut down. I walked upstairs to find 3 pilots sitting with the AC blasting, just shooting the breeze. I asked them if they ever helped with the reconfigs and/or helped the loads out. One of them told me, "That's the loads job. Our place is up here." Now I understand one dude staying up front to moniter the APU. But the rest just chillin' and not helping the load (and he looked like he could have used it)? Maybe it's just me, but isn't that...um...wrong? I know that there's a big difference between strat and tac airlift, but I didn't realize it was like that. I know that if we aren't needed up front, the rest of our crew is always in the back helping out the load. And after termination, we don't leave the plane for the crew bus unless everything was cleaned up and everyone is ready to go. No one kicks back until we can all kick back. The job's not done till everyone's job is done...right? Then we can all start drinking sooner...well...not here...but you get the point. Is this "stay in the cockpit" a mode of operation common for the strat guys? If so...WTF? FourFans edited for knuckle dragger spelling [ 01. September 2006, 20:00: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

2! Stateside partying can not come close to the kind of debauchery that can be had in the Pacific. As for the Margarita machine...just fill it with Weed and ice and make Jeremiah slushy's!

"The most important thing I learned is that soldiers watch what their leaders do. You can give them classes and lecture them forever, but it is your personal example they will follow." - General Colin Powell When our leaders are doing this during time of war, what do you expect from the service they lead. ...and yes...I dusted off contrails for that quote...

If you have every said (and meant) the words "below my paygrade" in response to a request for help, you're a SNAP. Sadly, I had to witness such an occurance recently. Edit: This applies regardless of paygrade. [ 05. May 2006, 04:52: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

I know exactly who you're talking about...and I guarrantee he's done stuff like that...in a herk...

Go for a run while you're there and feel the lack of 23 percent of the oxygen you're used to.

CH: that's why they pay you the big bucks. Hydro: will do. Thanks!

Disclaimer: Like a good forum goer, I used the search function, with not good results. Anyone got any good info on what to expect at AATTC (?Advanced Airlift Tactics Training Center?) at St. Joe? Thanks. FourFans [ 30. March 2006, 09:08: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

Knock It Off, Knock It Off, Co-pilots Knock it Off FourFans Knock It Off Before this gets ugly. We'll settle this elsewhere. BTW Bender, the correct phrase is "TARD FIGHT!"

HerkaDerka: Sorry, but I'm getting testy. I understand you're obviously an expert on the MPD program seeing how you didn't go through it nor have you taught dudes in it, BUT... Really? Nice objective critiques. Good job separating the dickweeds from the program they went through. I noticed you didn't mention another group of people. You know, those 2 year CP who still can't load secures right, can't kept track of their secrets bag, and don't know about half of the stuff on Linda's laundry list above. Face it, there are good and bad CP/FP all over the place, so don't go pinning bad habits on MPD dudes just because they took a different road than you. All the instructors at the Rock made it abundantly clear that FPs still don't know jack and have to study their asses off. But that doesn't mean the non-strivers didn't hear it just like they always haven't heard it. If that's still the case, you must be with some bad dudes. All we LTs at my station take care of each other. Acronymes aside, those who know tell those who don't, and we are all smarter in the end. That how it should be. MPD dudes are just like anyone else brand new the Herk, we have lot of learning to do. Sadly, humility isn't standard issue at any school house and some people will never learn it. That's life. SO, if you want to rag on guys that don't do their job. Fine. If you want to rag on the MPD program's faults, Fine. But just because we're MPD dudes doesn't mean we're sh!tbags. Thanks for the stereotype though. [ 23. March 2006, 20:59: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

you're a brilliant man mike...don't let anyone say different. post edited. try a reattack on understanding my point. PS Do a little research on the amazing C-17 that saved the day in the Philippines. Pretty much a sad grab for press while people were suffering.

32,400 lbs. Wow. Must have been a backbreaking mission for a C-17. Good thing a C-130 can't do that. Glory Whores What airframe was it that carried half of the 200,000 lbs of humanitarian relief for the recent mud slide in the Philippines??? Was it that single C-17 that flew in once, 3 days after C-130's were already there flying multiple missions? Someone jog my memory, because I'm confounded. [ 22. March 2006, 07:39: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

Rocker: "2" Learning to fly the plane from the left seat = Good Not learning a damn thing about being a co-pilot for tac missions = Piss Poor FPs are not even taught how to LOAD secures, much less use them. Basically at initial inprocessing at the new squadron...FPs are righteously right seat retarded.

Bender: It's like trying to explain skydiving to someone who hasn't, or describing the thrill of your first solo ride to someone who's never flown, or explaining the "driving the boat" in Guam to your wife. These are things you simply cannot do. If you were there, you get it, and if you didn't go, you won't understand...so stop trying. EDIT: It's good to hear recognition is coming back...now if we could only bring meaning back to the prop'n wings... [ 12. March 2006, 09:13: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

To the wives

Sorry to say it guys, but I can't take credit for that shot. I was just looking for a puke pic and found it in this thread. Still a great picture though!

Some zoomies here might recall what the leading edge of the wing on a big yellow glider looks like after impacting a PTWOB chute deployment bag... [ 10. January 2006, 09:19: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

December 12, 2005 Fresh squad, fresh wings Special operations unit takes on intratheater mission in new plane http://www.airforcetimes.com/print.php?f=0...PER-1383079.php By Bruce Rolfsen Times staff writer A new special operations squadron is in the air and with a new plane. The 319th Special Operations Squadron at Hurlburt Field, Fla., is flying a one-of-a-kind airplane for the Air Force, the U-28A, a militarized version of the civilian Pilatus PC-12. The squadron’s primary mission is intratheater transport of small numbers of special operations troops and gear, said the unit’s commander, Lt. Col. Michael D’Argenio. The decision by the Air Force Special Operations Command and the U.S. Special Operations Command to purchase U-28As demonstrates commanders believe they need new airlift options, officials said. Some members of the Air Force special operations community have questioned using sophisticated and costly MC-130 Combat Talons to ferry special operations personnel on flights that don’t require the Talon’s low-level or night-flying capabilities. It was on just such a mission in December 2004 that an MC-130H Talon II landed on top of an unmarked runway construction site in Iraq, destroying the $85 million aircraft. When AFSOC C-130s weren’t available, special operators had to request permission to fly on conventional Air Force and Army aircraft or contractor-operated planes. With the addition of the low-cost U-28A, special operators have a unit and aircraft focused on the intratheater airlift mission, D’Argenio said. The 319th will have eight airplanes and number about 45 airmen, including 34 pilots, the commander said. The other troops will primarily be life support and administrative airmen. The squadron won’t have a maintenance staff. Contractors will handle the day-to-day upkeep of the single-engine U-28As. The unit may be flying operational missions by February, D’Argenio said. The squadron was formally reactivated Oct. 12. The unit traces it lineage to one of the original Air Force special operations units, the 319th Troop Carrier Squadron that fought in the China-Burma-India theater during World War II. At Hurlburt, the new 319th will fall under the 16th Special Operations Wing’s chain of command. As the modern squadron spins up, the initial cadre of pilots is coming to the U-28A after flying tours in other Air Force aircraft, the commander said. A majority of the pilots will have experience in special operations C-130 cockpits. Each U-28A will fly with a crew of two pilots. The pilots will get their U-28A qualification at Hurlburt, where the squadron has two leased aircraft for training. Overseas missions Most of the squadrons’ operational flights are expected to be flown overseas in support of special operations missions in nations such as Iraq and Afghanistan. For operational missions, U.S. Special Operations Command is buying six U-28As at a base cost of about $3.5 million each from the Swiss company Pilatus Aircraft Ltd. The planes will then be customized with specialized navigation gear and weather radar. Except for the avionics upgrades, the U-28A’s basic design is the same as the PC-12, according to aircraft fact sheets. Depending on how the U-28A’s interior is configured, the aircraft can carry up to nine passengers, or about 3,000 pounds of cargo if passenger seats are removed. The Pilatus plane was chosen ahead of other small, rugged transports because the interior can be pressurized and it has superior range and endurance compared to twin-engine counterparts, D’Argenio said. The Air Force gave the aircraft a “U” designation to signify its “utilitarian” mission. Other Air Force special operations transports, such as the MC-130E, fly with the “M” designation for special operations. A different version of the PC-12 is flown by the U.S. Border Patrol for reconnaissance assignments. The airplane is also popular with governments and private firms that need an aircraft able to take off and land on short or unpaved runways. The standup of the 319th comes at the same time the Army and Air Force are taking the first steps toward buying a small transport plane that would be about half the size of a C-130 Hercules. The U-28A won’t be part of that debate because the U-28A is too small and lacks a rear cargo ramp.

Where's a U-2 Pilot when you need'm? Oh yeah, I forgot, they actually have a job to do.

"The flak shell with your name on it isn't the one to fear...it's all those addressed: "To Whom It May Concern" that you need to worry about." BUCK FUTTER!