MCO

I think your right, but to his point many people treat non religious things like religion, such as political parties. My good side said this is good and the other side is evil, therefore it is so.

Im not judging your view, just that your argument will be tough if you took all the other vaccines. No one ever thinks their own argument is weak. At least not people with actual convictions.

If you refused every other vaccine for similar reasons then I think your argument is valid. If this is the only vaccine you have had an issue with I think your argument is much weaker.

I mean the families of the 2000 people that died of COVID today in the US might disagree, but if you mean that we may be done treating it like a pandemic and just accept a couple thousand deaths a day that may be true. i just think it’s dumb my two options according to most here and the news are to completely lockdown scared and cause everything that comes with that, or completely ignore it and claim I’m not in the target population I don’t care and cause everything that comes with that. And if you end up in the middle somewhere you are obviously in the other side of the debate and can’t think for yourself and are just a pawn for “the other side”. This is why when I see people saying “ItS NoT PoLiTiCaL” for the most part I don’t believe them.

It’s astounding someone has a different opinion than you?

Point that wording needs to be exact when you decide it needs to be.

I had the opposite… I had a bunch of weird long term COVID side effect that all went away after my shots. Again, I don’t put a lot of stock in my one experience because of correlation and causation, but it felt like it helped.

Like I’ve said, people have made decent arguments against the shot, but the Pfizer vs generic argument seems like it’s grasping for any loophole and lacks understanding of how they name vaccines and drugs. Good luck to the guys that make that their hill though.

It leads to semantics.

Good luck fighting that one

No he just named the generic name of the shot. Its the same shot. Its like saying you wont take advil but you’ll take ibprufin because they are different. I think people make valid points but that one seems like such a reach to me.

You can make that case for every flu shot every year since it’s always new. If everyone had been up on arms about having to take an unproven vaccine every year since they joined the military for a low success vaccine against a disease that doesn’t kill lots of people of military age this would all make more sense to me. And this is because republicans are for pro liberty and individual rights like allowing families to personally make the call on abortion?To be clear, I’m against mandates and abortion personally I just understand how politics help form our opinions and make us all slight hypocrites, good or bad. I’m for your choice to do what you want. It just seems like some people, not everyone, are only against the vaccine to prove they can be. I’m for businesses making their own rules and not having authoritarian restrictions, but I bet most people who are anti vaccine and face mask immediately drop the mask even if the business says no masks for vaccinated. I’m for your right to choose, I just hope you don’t choose to be a dick. Follow what the businesses ask or just don’t give them your business if you are that angered. I got the vaccine not for me but because I hoped to limit the spread so I didn’t accidentally kill someone’s grandma. For some of you your health is more important then your buddies grandma, which is fine but that’s where some of the differences come from. And I don’t mean that as a shot, I understand the reasoning. Part of this is from knowing a few people, some our age that weren’t fat, that died of COVID. Finally, I don’t think there is anything illegal about the military making you get a vaccine. Tons of precedent for it. Even if the virus doesn’t kill you, keeping whole units from going down at the same time from an illness I think is a reasonable argument for readiness whether you agree or not, IE the flu shot. BIG jump to illegal order. I can understand not liking it and disagreeing with it but I don’t understand how it’s illegal.

Politics

Lol. And this is why no one will win this argument.

I agree completely with lack of desire to command not equaling less than selfless service, and I think there are GOs that do equate that. There is a point though where you are going to have to force people to command if they want to stay in as an O-6 because we have to fill our command requirements. It’s why officers exist. If you really don’t want to command at the O-6 level, don’t make O-6. Otherwise the possibility is out there just due to the numbers.

1/4 to 1/2 of O-6 jobs are command, so if you have too many people that make O-6 with no aspiration to command, it turns into a numbers problem. Letting people not command that don’t want to is a good thing I think, but you still have to fill all the commands. Good or bad, O-6 command is also seen as a valuable experience to inform certain future jobs as an O-6, not just promotability, which also makes it tough. I think where it gets weird is how much slack do you want to give the system and how it’s messaged. Plus everyone has their own opinion when messaging.

I'm fairly aware of the O-6 assignments process. You can opt out of command right now and just go into the normal O-6 assignments process and for the most part it doesn't hurt you, except that some jobs want graduated commanders. But assignments at the O-6 level are all BNR so it can get weird, but you are not just looked at by 1 MAJCOM for jobs. There are even tracks at the O-6 level to take where you don't even meet the CSB and it isn't held against you except on the BG board when that box isn't checked. I don't think overall manning at the O-6 level is bad right now, but like I said is bad for specific AFSCs. For instance there was continuation offered last year, but not this year. Pretty sure COVID had a say and things can change pretty quick, but for a year or two that's where its at.

I don’t know if they are really thinking about turning opt out off but there is concerns for some career fields. Id also say I don’t think our O-6 manning is that bad, minus certain AFSCs. That can change pretty quick though. I do think leadership would love to fully understand the reasoning behind opt outs.

As long as I’m the military, I’ll take what they tell me or I’ll get out. Even on the outside I tend to trust the majority of scientists because I think most people want to do the right thing, although I think risks acceptance differs. The military has to always be ready and we lose some freedoms when you join and I think that’s generally understood. Having a significant part of our force challenge something hurts the good order and discipline part. I think there may be a time and place for that but it would have to be pretty severe, like illegal orders. Even the military being low risk you don’t want everyone getting sick at the same time. No one had a problem with annual flu shots before, why would annual COVID shots be different? Last thing is this forum used to be a great place to come and learn things about AF policy coming down the line and getting inside info on stuff from people in the know. Now we spend most of our time arguing a shot and politics that none of us are going to change our mind on. I think it’s true out in the force too. We just need to accept our positions, deal with the consequences of either getting or not getting the vaccine and move on to talking about policies that will affect the younger guys and we can give them advice on, like new pilot training changes, building experienced flyers, changing OPR processes and forms, career expectations without BPZ and opportunities to fly more, or take a command route if you want, IDE changes etc. not waste our time not changing each other’s mind on a vaccine. Just my opinion.

That’s fair. But are you now an anti vaxxer in general? As in don’t vaccinate your kids with any of those vaccines and take the risk? Just curious if everyone is becoming what they made fun of 2 years ago using the same arguments they made fun of 2 years ago because it’s normal now. I’m actually not judging if you are, it’s just interesting how this is going. I’m pro vaccine personally but also pro self determination in most cases. I just accept the military is going to shoot us up with a bunch of stuff.

A toast…

Not what I’m saying at all.

I don’t know why we keep arguing this. There is literally no evidence, regardless of how convincing, you can show an anti-vaxxer that will convince them it’s good to get the shot, and it would take something incredible happening to convince everyone else the shot is bad.

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/scary-reports-deaths-following-covid-19-vaccination-arent-what-they-seem All that says is that many people died after receiving the vaccine, not necessarily because of the vaccine… need a lot more information to learn something from those numbers. It would be nice if we had the no kidding number of deaths from the vaccine, but it’s probably hard to directly link deaths.

This is how political the vaccine has become. Just being pro vaccine means I’m obviously an extreme libtard who down ballots democrats every time. I don’t care about masks unless a business wants me to wear it, and I think vaccine mandates outside of how we mandate other vaccines treads on peoples freedoms. But I think not getting the vaccine just to make that point using the same anti vaxxer arguments you probably made fun of 2 years ago while saying sucks old and fat people are dying is kind of ridiculous. Now go ahead and burn the witch.