Guest Rainman A-10 Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Flying a big plane into multiple countries and all the coordination involved is a little more difficult than keeping the one TACAN tuned and tanker in sight. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickhistory Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Why are airlift/tanker guys excluded from fighter weapons school? United States Air Force Weapons School Comprised of 16 squadrons, the U.S. Air Force Weapons School teaches graduate-level instructor courses that provide the world's most advanced training in weapons and tactics employment to officers of the combat air forces. Every six months, the Weapons School produces approximately 80 graduates who are expert instructors on weapons, weapons system and air and space integration. They take to their respective squadrons the latest tactics, techniques and procedures for air-to-air and air-to-ground combat. The Weapons School also produces the Weapons Review magazine, the CAF's premier professional tactics publication. The Weapons School began in the late 1940s as the USAF Gunnery School. This school was designed to teach air combat lessons learned and sought to improve pilots' aerial gunnery skills in the P-51, F-80, F-84 and F-86. In 1953, the school was renamed the USAF Fighter Weapons School and in 1992, with the advent of Air Combat Command and inclusion of bomber courses, the school changed its name to the USAF Weapons School. Today, the Weapons School offers weapons instructor courses for the A-10 Thunderbolt II, the B-1B Lancer, the B-2 Spirit, the B-52 Stratofortress, the EC-130H Compass Call, the KC-135 StratoTanker, the C-17 Globemaster II, the C-130 Hercules, the F-15C Eagle, the F-15E Strike Eagle, the F-16 Fighting Falcon, the HH-60G Pave Hawk, the RC-135/W Rivet Joint, intelligence instructors, space instructors, senior directors serving on the E-3 AWACS, E-8 JSTARS and ground control and reporting centers and special operations forces crewmembers aboard the AC-130, and MC-130. http://www.nellis.af.mil/library/factsheet...eet.asp?id=4098 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rainman A-10 Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Why are airlift/tanker guys excluded from fighter weapons school? They're not, and there is no longer a fighter weapons school (hasn't been for over 15 years). The USAF weapons school is actually part of ACC, so maybe it should be called the ACC weapons school. Any MAJCOM that wants to have a special school can have one. AMC has their own school house. AFSOC is attached to the USAF school, CH can explain exactly how that relationship works...I'm not sure if the instructors are AFSOC or ACC assets but I don't think they don't have their own planes like the Nellis divisions do. The Bombers don't have their own planes either and they are not located at Nellis. The reason slick C-130s and C-17s and tankers are not part of the Nellis school is they don't really have a requirement to integrate in the combat mission planning in the same way as the AFSOC/Rescue guys do. They just don't typically go to the same places and they're not typically part of the same packages. There are combat scenarios where we all work in the same general area. Those missions are typically handeled in a side-bar scenario with only the people directly involved in supporting that "airlift" mission knowing what is happening. In those cases the fighter guys typically assign a mission commander to handle the integration and deconfliction with the CAF assets in the theater during the same vul time so the heavy guys can focus on what they need to do since they are the primary asset(s) needing support for the mission. In fact, most times the heavy guys don't even know the full extent of what is going on to support them, which is good as it allows them focus on what is important to them. The busy work for the fighter guys typically begins after the heavy guys do what they need to do. The airlift guys can have a school and show up as part of the ME phase to get the integration training. They don't have to have the same patch or chain of command to learn the same things the USAF weapons school students learn. There are not many scenarios that involve the heavy guys in the big package integration/planning process but, as I mentioned, there are a few. We used to work the C-130 stuff into ME but quite frankly it was often a sideshow and the only people interested in being part of it were the A-10 guys and the big airplanes with lots of people in back. That has changed a bit since the integration of AFSOC and the combat operations in AEF and OIF showed the value of CAF assets trained to support different missions. I believe the "weapons school model" is valid across every airframe. Everyone benefits from having a school that trains people to know how to integrate assets and be expert planners, tacticians and instructors. There is really no requirement for all the schools to be combined and there is not a whole lot of integration required between CAF and non-CAF/combat assets. One vital part of these types of schools is that they create a network of people who know they can call on one another when they need a question answered or need to coordinate/integrate/plan a mission. The patch itself is not important. At all. If it was really that important it wouldn't be just a piece of cloth you take off before you fly a combat mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Boom Posted May 24, 2007 Share Posted May 24, 2007 Any MAJCOM that wants to have a special school can have one. AMC has their own school house. AFSOC is attached to the USAF school, CH can explain exactly how that relationship works...I'm not sure if the instructors are AFSOC or ACC assets but I don't think they don't have their own planes like the Nellis divisions do. The Bombers don't have their own planes either and they are not located at Nellis. About a year ago they realigned the C-17, C-130, and KC-135 Weapon schools under ACC. The patch itself is not important. At all. If it was really that important it wouldn't be just a piece of cloth you take off before you fly a combat mission. Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Does the McDill unit have a seprate hiring board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest terp737 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Does the McDill unit have a seprate hiring board? ok, disregard the fighter weapons school. I guess you need to ask AFPC why no fighter guys are allowed to become airlift guys. Maybe we can work you a crossflow of some sorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluto Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Terp737 - So are bomber guys allowed to apply and do you have any there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 (edited) Yeah it must be fun to carry their bags and sit around waiting for them to get back to the jet, while you sit there in your blues. Then they try to kill you by taking a turn in the seat for an approach. No,... but they do enjoy applying to a sweet Part 91 gig (after they separate or retire) that pays $180K+ to start, knowing that they've got a G-V type rating. Edited May 25, 2007 by Huggyu2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rainman A-10 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 No,... bu they do enjoy applying to a sweet Part 91 gig (after they separate or retire) that pays $180K+ to start, knowing that they've got a G-V type rating. Just curious, who is paying that kind of money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techsan Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Just curious, who is paying that kind of money? I'm not quite sure. I know that at Flight Options, Gulfstream Captains start out at $100k/yr. Then eventually up to around $115k/yr. I imagine you'd have to fly for a non-fractional in order to make $180k/yr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hydro130 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 (edited) I believe the "weapons school model" is valid across every airframe. Everyone benefits from having a school that trains people to know how to integrate assets and be expert planners, tacticians and instructors. There is really no requirement for all the schools to be combined and there is not a whole lot of integration required between CAF and non-CAF/combat assets. One vital part of these types of schools is that they create a network of people who know they can call on one another when they need a question answered or need to coordinate/integrate/plan a mission. The patch itself is not important. At all. If it was really that important it wouldn't be just a piece of cloth you take off before you fly a combat mission. SHACK! Being in the last slick Herk class that patched as a Target Arm out at Nellis, I was pretty bitter when AMC pulled us out of the USAF Weapons School and went to the Mob WS concept. I was being a whiney & holier-than-thou little b*itch, however. I believed at the time it was a step in the wrong direction, and that AMC was screwing up the good deal we had going as part of the USAFWS. "Why do we have to go have our own (not as cool) WS just because Nellis gave AMC 'The Hand' about letting Barney in?", is typical of the off-target thoughts running thru my nugget there for a while. I should've known better, ferchrissakes, but my own ego & pride were keeping me from seeing the forest for the trees... The truth is exactly as Rainman says - the important part is the WS concept, not what patch is on your shoulder. The USAFWS went through the "why aren't we the Fighter WS anymore?" crying-in-my-beer crap a long time ago and moved on nicely - they embraced the concept of "one team, one fight" years ago, and that's the whole point. Maybe someday all the WSs will realign under a big umbrella, but if this is working for now, I'm just glad that ball is rolling. It's the right thing to be doing and the right focus to have. Derail checks - "Complete" Cheers, Hydro Edited May 25, 2007 by Hydro130 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Just curious, who is paying that kind of money? Granted, not many offer that to start. But I do know of one in my area paying that range. It's not a G-V, but a Falcon or Global Express (can't remember). West Palm has some cherry gigs too, if you've got the "in". Re C21Cowboy's comment: I'm talking Part 91. You'd be hard pressed to find any pay like that in the Part 135 world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rainman A-10 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I'm talking Part 91. You'd be hard pressed to find any pay like that in the Part 135 world. OK. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the difference. I thought Part 91 was non-commercial. Would that be like a corporate job? I interviewed with a corporate aviation division and all the fly is G-Vs. They don't start anywhere near $180K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Rainman if you get the job take it. The type is worth a lot. Contract pilots on that aircraft can make over $120K. Check out Flightinfo.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Davies Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 He said more than once they crossed the Atlantic, couldn't get into Gatwick and came right back.:eek: No shit!? What about Brize? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 (edited) I thought Part 91 was non-commercial. Would that be like a corporate job? I'm still learing the nuances, too. However, most corporate should fall into Part 91. However, the high paying ones (or so it seems to me) are the ones with millionaires/billionairs that most of us haven't heard of, and that do a lot of travel. TAG Aviation deals with these folks, but since they negotiate with the customer, you'll not see the big pay. The one I know of is a guy with a lot of money. I also know a few other military guys that got furloughed, found a good job (corporate, mainly) and don't think they'll ever want to come back to the Majors. Of course, when things turn south financially for many small companies, the flight dept is one of the first things to go. I'm sort of "all over the map" on this discussion, but suffice to say that there are a lot of jobs flying Gulfstream/Falcon/Bombardier/etc... equipment. Some good, some bad, some great. I found one last year working for a billionaire: the pilot that left said terrific guy, well mannered kids, visited great locations, 5-star hotels and meals, etc... Down side: $80,000 and short call out. Up side: he has a hangar with some very cool stuff you get to fly if you want (including warbirds). I heard through the grapevine that it took a while to find a new pilot, and that the pay "went up much higher than $80K". Edited May 25, 2007 by Huggyu2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickhistory Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 We interviewed a Reserve guy for one of our spots; his full time gig was working for a certain oil rich royalty. He says he's well into the six figures. 30 days on call, 30 days off while the other crew is on call. Can't verify the validity of his claim, but have no reason to doubt him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest terp737 Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Terp737 - So are bomber guys allowed to apply and do you have any there? I believe we have a couple of guys with bomber experience. You would have to check with AFPC for your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_cubbies22 Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Thread Revival How do you get selected to fly the G-Vs at Hickam, MacDill, and Chievres? Is it an application process or just another assignment worked through your functional at AFPC? Are C-130 pilots picked up for these jobs? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHS17 Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Thread Revival How do you get selected to fly the G-Vs at Hickam, MacDill, and Chievres? Is it an application process or just another assignment worked through your functional at AFPC? Are C-130 pilots picked up for these jobs? Thanks. No, yes, and I have no idea. Guys tend to get 'em after a stint at Altus, wonder why that is...? Seriously though, the only blue and white airplanes that I know for sure you have to apply for are the ones at Andrews. We just sent a guy to Macdill and I'm renting my house from a -135 guy who went to Hickam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crew Report Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 My old boss (-135 guy) went to Macdill and just had it on his ADP. I know a Herk guy who's also at Macdill flying G5's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_cubbies22 Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Thanks for the replies. Is MWS IP a requirement for those jobs? Is it possible to get picked up for the G-V after one MWS tour, or is it usually a third assignment type thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techsan Posted August 9, 2010 Share Posted August 9, 2010 Thanks for the replies. Is MWS IP a requirement for those jobs? Is it possible to get picked up for the G-V after one MWS tour, or is it usually a third assignment type thing? Yes, it is possible to get a GV assignment after one MWS tour...not too likely though. I don't imagine its technically a requirement to be an IP, however I'm sure your chances get slimmer if you're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS57 Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Thread re-revival. Will the G-V units take small aircraft guys, like AFSOC light fixed wing/NSAV type pilots or do they only look for large airlift types? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contraildash Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 (edited) 99% of the C-20/37 folks in my SQ are Maj or LtCol. There are a few Captains, but I don't think any of them are 2nd assignment types. Seems all of them are from some AMC asset. A few U-2 dudes. Could be wrong though. Edited April 28, 2011 by contraildash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now