FourFans Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 December 12, 2005 Fresh squad, fresh wings Special operations unit takes on intratheater mission in new plane http://www.airforcetimes.com/print.php?f=0...PER-1383079.php By Bruce Rolfsen Times staff writer A new special operations squadron is in the air and with a new plane. The 319th Special Operations Squadron at Hurlburt Field, Fla., is flying a one-of-a-kind airplane for the Air Force, the U-28A, a militarized version of the civilian Pilatus PC-12. The squadron’s primary mission is intratheater transport of small numbers of special operations troops and gear, said the unit’s commander, Lt. Col. Michael D’Argenio. The decision by the Air Force Special Operations Command and the U.S. Special Operations Command to purchase U-28As demonstrates commanders believe they need new airlift options, officials said. Some members of the Air Force special operations community have questioned using sophisticated and costly MC-130 Combat Talons to ferry special operations personnel on flights that don’t require the Talon’s low-level or night-flying capabilities. It was on just such a mission in December 2004 that an MC-130H Talon II landed on top of an unmarked runway construction site in Iraq, destroying the $85 million aircraft. When AFSOC C-130s weren’t available, special operators had to request permission to fly on conventional Air Force and Army aircraft or contractor-operated planes. With the addition of the low-cost U-28A, special operators have a unit and aircraft focused on the intratheater airlift mission, D’Argenio said. The 319th will have eight airplanes and number about 45 airmen, including 34 pilots, the commander said. The other troops will primarily be life support and administrative airmen. The squadron won’t have a maintenance staff. Contractors will handle the day-to-day upkeep of the single-engine U-28As. The unit may be flying operational missions by February, D’Argenio said. The squadron was formally reactivated Oct. 12. The unit traces it lineage to one of the original Air Force special operations units, the 319th Troop Carrier Squadron that fought in the China-Burma-India theater during World War II. At Hurlburt, the new 319th will fall under the 16th Special Operations Wing’s chain of command. As the modern squadron spins up, the initial cadre of pilots is coming to the U-28A after flying tours in other Air Force aircraft, the commander said. A majority of the pilots will have experience in special operations C-130 cockpits. Each U-28A will fly with a crew of two pilots. The pilots will get their U-28A qualification at Hurlburt, where the squadron has two leased aircraft for training. Overseas missions Most of the squadrons’ operational flights are expected to be flown overseas in support of special operations missions in nations such as Iraq and Afghanistan. For operational missions, U.S. Special Operations Command is buying six U-28As at a base cost of about $3.5 million each from the Swiss company Pilatus Aircraft Ltd. The planes will then be customized with specialized navigation gear and weather radar. Except for the avionics upgrades, the U-28A’s basic design is the same as the PC-12, according to aircraft fact sheets. Depending on how the U-28A’s interior is configured, the aircraft can carry up to nine passengers, or about 3,000 pounds of cargo if passenger seats are removed. The Pilatus plane was chosen ahead of other small, rugged transports because the interior can be pressurized and it has superior range and endurance compared to twin-engine counterparts, D’Argenio said. The Air Force gave the aircraft a “U” designation to signify its “utilitarian” mission. Other Air Force special operations transports, such as the MC-130E, fly with the “M” designation for special operations. A different version of the PC-12 is flown by the U.S. Border Patrol for reconnaissance assignments. The airplane is also popular with governments and private firms that need an aircraft able to take off and land on short or unpaved runways. The standup of the 319th comes at the same time the Army and Air Force are taking the first steps toward buying a small transport plane that would be about half the size of a C-130 Hercules. The U-28A won’t be part of that debate because the U-28A is too small and lacks a rear cargo ramp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaJu Posted December 11, 2005 Share Posted December 11, 2005 So...are these guys going to be doing HALO jumps out the rear exit or something? [ 11. December 2005, 12:18: Message edited by: wannaairlift ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C-21 Pilot Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I wonder if this counts as a "white jet tour" if it'll be labled as a MWS? Interesting mission, sucky plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okienav Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 The less you discuss about this platform the better. OPSEC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C-21 Pilot Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) great mission and not a sucky plane at all. and no, it does not count as a white jet tour, it flies for afsoc not aetc. I guess my 5 years in the C-21 don't qualify as a white jet tour since I was in both AMC and USAFE - vs. AETC? Nope. Flying AETC isn't the only qualifier for your whitejet tour...wise up. Besides, anything in the current fleet w/ 3 props or less qualifies as a "sucky plane" in my book. I'm not talking the mission - which I would be excited to do - but simply the airframe. I agree w/ Chuck, this isn't "Hush, Hush"....we're not in the vault here, only talking about a squadron and a plane...anything that can be found on af.mil. Again, wise up. Edited January 10, 2008 by C-21 Pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baseops.Net Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 anything in the current fleet w/ 3 props or less qualifies as a "sucky plane" in my book I beg to differ on this one. it does not count as a white jet tour, it flies for afsoc not aetc The problem is that there are several different definitions for "white jet" floating around out there. Some folks only consider AETC planes as white jets (including the orange and white USN planes...) -- Others lump in the OSA planes -- and lastly, some folks call anything that isn't an MDS as a "white jet". The real problem is the Gods at AFPC fundamentally misunderstanding the different planes (and different missions) that we all fly. In other words no big deal if the users of this forum don't understand what plane you fly or whether or not it is a white jet, etc. The big problem today is AFPC doesn't understand anything other than the mainstream planes flying the mainstream missions. Anything their pea brains don't know about is considered a "good deal" and therefore deserves to be followed by a "punishment" tour. <----- AFPC FOR DUMMIES... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest regularjoe Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) Treasury has had these for a little while now. Edited January 10, 2008 by regularjoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contraildash Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 The less you discuss about this platform the better. OPSEC! PC-12s are amazing performers. Quite the mountain goat if you will. I personally know several King Air owners who bought PC12s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combat Platypus Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) #1 - The first rule of Fight Club is, you do not talk about Fight Club. #2 - The second rule of Fight Club is, you DO NOT talk about Fight Club. #3 - If someone says stop, goes limp, taps out, the fight is over. #4-8 - FOUO #9 - PC-12 will kick your azz Edited January 11, 2008 by Combat Platypus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Speaking of PC-12s, looks like the NTSB released the "Probable Cause" of Jason Barton's fatal crash a while back. Pretty sad stuff. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...00882&key=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest regularjoe Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Couldn't find a pic in the USAF color's, but here's a generic PC-12 pic. Cap-10 Now appearing in USAF colors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest whatsarunway Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Back when I was a CFII a had a couple friends go into PC-12s for small companies, they used to call it Fisher Price's My First Corporate Airplane....because it was easy to fly and a good stepping stone other corporate jets. It will beat the pants off of any King Air though as far as economy and performance goes....its a great workhorse, probably the main reason why AFSOC bought it. Just another example of how foreign aircraft companies keep outperforming American manufacturers....the T-6 was originally a Pilatus design as well and that is another tough bird. Will be interesting to see how many different uses AFSOC comes up with for it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzy Bear Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 You clearly have never flown the T-6. We baby the hell out of her, and she's still gonna fall apart in 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swizzle Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 You clearly have never flown the T-6. We baby the hell out of her, and she's still gonna fall apart in 10 years. I agree Fozzy. I had the honor to be the first student to fly a couple of T-6's. They had less than three hours on them. When Vance received T-6's from other bases with more than 1,000 hrs there was a great difference in how the plane responded to PCL movements. The gremlins in the plane's systems would pop up as well. I know the power efficiency is expected to decrease initially, but these were significant reductions. The older Texans would have trouble keeping up during formation rides with the newer Texans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitman Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I agree Fozzy. I had the honor to be the first student to fly a couple of T-6's. They had less than three hours on them. When Vance received T-6's from other bases with more than 1,000 hrs there was a great difference in how the plane responded to PCL movements. The gremlins in the plane's systems would pop up as well. I know the power efficiency is expected to decrease initially, but these were significant reductions. The older Texans would have trouble keeping up during formation rides with the newer Texans. T-34C is still going strong after 35 years. Great trainer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerMateo Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I agree Fozzy. I had the honor to be the first student to fly a couple of T-6's. They had less than three hours on them. When Vance received T-6's from other bases with more than 1,000 hrs there was a great difference in how the plane responded to PCL movements. The gremlins in the plane's systems would pop up as well. Yeah...so it's the newer T-6's I'd be worried about ;) New boldface and all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyinGrunt Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Yeah...so it's the newer T-6's I'd be worried about ;) New boldface and all... Don't forget the super-sweet G-limit reduction that increased "over-Gs" by about, oh, 300% overnight . . . GAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zrooster99 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Can anyone who's in the know PM me so we can exchange .mils? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B*D*A Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 What's the "pod" on the right wing? It's on the civvie versions too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitman Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 What's the "pod" on the right wing? It's on the civvie versions too. Reminds me of the Dozer OPSEC scandal. Are you Chinese by chance BDA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B*D*A Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Reminds me of the Dozer OPSEC scandal. Are you Chinese by chance BDA? I no not rut you are talkring arout! I most definatry didn't send F-5 plans to Iran eithrer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zrooster99 Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 Thread Revival! Can someone who knows who the current functional at AFPC is please PM me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooter Posted November 6, 2009 Share Posted November 6, 2009 On side note, anyone PSCing down there this spring/summer? Cooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Delta Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 On side note, anyone PSCing down there this spring/summer? Cooter Cooter, I'm heading up there this Summer. Delta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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