Would you give up a good paying civilian job to go AD?

[hindsight2020]

As a reserve baby, hell NO, I would never give up a good civilian job to go active duty. To each their own.

[pcola]

Alright I will stick with the guard route for now but would not hesitate to apply for AD. I am aware of the high dissatisfaction and it is unfortunate that the leadership is not listening to you guys. What I'm mostly after here is the experience of serving alongside awesome people and making the good memories. Maybe im still naïve but I think the satisfaction of looking at what I'm doing with my life in the big picture would make it all worth it anyway.

If you have the lifelong dream of flying AF jets, apply for every opportunity out there. Especially AD. You have to realize that while there are certainly never a shortage of things to bitch about on AD, the majority of dudes on here making the most noise don't know any different - most have no experience outside of AD. Most of them don't realize that at least part of their problems reside within themselves, and that they will eventually be just as dissatisfied as a civilian. I've been enlisted, a min wage civilian, a traditional college student, a civilian professional (Engineer), and AD AF for the last 10 years. Trust me, the AF isn't as broken as most around here think it is. Yes, there are issues, but that's life. All the things you mentioned are real benefits of this job that are hard to find elsewhere, and they make the BS worthwhile, at least manageable for 10 years. While I'm not looking to stay beyond my 20, I have no regrets about leaving a good paying, stable civilian job for AD. Good luck.

[ComingLeft]

Serious question, for those who have done guard and civ job is it hard to maintain life with the family?

I looked into leaving active duty for the guard and a non-flying civilian job before VSP/PC got screwed up. Unfortunately, guard and a non-flying are not compatible if you live more than two hours from your guard base. PERIOD. Guard sounds great at 1 weekend a month two weeks a year. That should be palatable for most employers and families at 38 days a year; however, KC-135 units require 100+ days a year to meet all your currencies. Other air frames require even more days. A guard F-16 pilot left his unit to go fly KC-135s because the F-16 requirements were incompatible with his nice paying $100K+ ATCC job. Some of these guard days you are flying, others in the simulator, and some are just ground training or worse computer based training. Flying can become a burden or dangerous if you try to fit it into your work schedule. A local sortie takes is minimum of 8 hours between prep, brief, flying, and debrief. Most are 12 hours. Not something to do after working 8-4. I knew in this situation I would be serving two masters and "Guard Weekend" would turn into a dirty word around the house but YMMV. Asking around, I found out that most people in guard flying squadrons that make a non-flying civilian job compatible live close and are self-employed, work for a defense contractor, or are willing to take a pay cut for QoL.

BTW during commissioning and pilot training you will be on active duty ONLY for two years. Can you support your family on $45,000 for those two years?

EDIT: Grammar

Edited April 9, 2014 by ComingLeft

[SocialD]

Guard sounds great at 1 weekend a month two weeks a year. That should be palatable for most employers and families at 38 days a year; however, KC-135 units require 100+ days a year to meet all your currencies. Other air frames require even more days. A guard F-16 pilot left his unit to go fly KC-135s because the F-16 requirements were incompatible with his nice paying $100K+ ATCC job. Some of these guard days you are flying, others in the simulator, and some are just ground training or worse computer based training. Flying can become a burden or dangerous if you try to fit it into your work schedule. A local sortie takes is minimum of 8 hours between prep, brief, flying, and debrief. Most are 12 hours. Not something to do after working 8-4. I knew in this situation I would be serving two masters and "Guard Weekend" would turn into a dirty word around the house but YMMV. Asking around, I found out that most people in guard flying squadrons that make a non-flying civilian job compatible live close and are self-employed, work for a defense contractor, or are willing to take a pay cut for QoL.

100+ days/yr in the KC-135?!? Holy shit, what kind of slave driving squadron is that? Unless they're only using one pay period per day, you don't even have that many pay days! You don't even have to work that many days in a fighter squadron. I know who you're talking about...as you said, living 2+ hours from the Guard base does not help either.

I do agree with you though...being a part timer in something other than an airline or local corporate gig, can be a tough way to go. The ones who try AND live out of town, don't seem to last long.

[Vertigo]

I got the best of both worlds- AGR baby!

[hindsight2020]

I got the best of both worlds- AGR baby!

It depends on what you want to do post-retirement. An airline seniority number now plus a TR gig is a much better affair for QOL than attempting to start the junior airline drudgery in your late 40s. Plus considering the eventual hiring uptick, it'll be much better for pay and furlough protection to start now rather than 10 years later. You also have a TR gig to protect your turbine currency and source of income while going through the lean years at the airline. Not so with the AGR, though you will have a retirement check, which saves your bacon but doesn't keep you in the air.

Now, if airlines are not your cup o tea, then yeah, AGR beats the hell out of most civilian employment, most particularly ART. Actually, for people who value living in their "good ol town" more than what they do for a living, the ART becomes desirable. They get to stay employed in the same "good ol town" until civilian MRA whereas a retiring AGR could feasibly be economically forced to look for a second career away from the Guard/Res hometown in order to retain income parity (most Guard/Res locations are not in cosmopolitan locations with competitive civilian jobs). ART is an outright paycut from AGR and I'd never resort to such insular life views, but to each their own.

It's also interesting to note that there's a TON of AGRs right now jumping ship back to the airlines or as they get class dates; rolling the dice on getting the man to curtail them. So clearly there's plenty of people who don't think uncle Sam's tit is the bee's knees. BTW I'm AGR too. The devil really is in the details.

Edited April 9, 2014 by hindsight2020

[herkbum]

Now, if airlines are not your cup o tea, then yeah, AGR beats the hell out of most civilian employment, most particularly ART. Actually, for people who value living in their "good ol town" more than what they do for a living, the ART becomes desirable. They get to stay employed in the same "good ol town" until civilian MRA whereas a retiring AGR could feasibly be economically forced to look for a second career away from the Guard/Res hometown in order to retain income parity (most Guard/Res locations are not in cosmopolitan locations with competitive civilian jobs).

This. I will be retirement eligible in a few yrs and will be in my mid-40's. Likely going to have to move since I promised the wife she could go back to work if she wanted. And she can't work w/i her area of expertise here. So it looks we will likely be moving away. This is my hometown, but a move could actually be pretty good since we are looking at some fairly decent locations in state income tax free zones. We'll make a determination in a year or so.

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

[Marco]

Yep, left AGR program to become a Dumb Shit Guardsman.

Best. Decision. Ever.

Good luck with yours.

[Beaver]

I just bought a business to pave the way for post-AGR retirement life. There's other options besides the airlines for dudes like us.

I'll still be getting my ATP, FWIW.

[Snooter]

Military flying is a lot like golf. You swear you're done with it and then all of a sudden you hit a great shot and you remember why you love it in the first place.

Yes...