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FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)


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And don't forget all of the hilarious (and truthful) Xtra Normal vids on the Youtubes that simultaneously mock and tell the real story about life in the AF...kids, start taking notes if you haven't already!! Your recruiter will never ever give you our side of the story...

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A few weeks ago I made a statement to a room full of senior AF leaders that we were making a big mistake paying contractors and civilians to fix and fly aircraft in combat while we keep active duty su

I'll bite, although I feel as though my response would fall on deaf ears. I have thought about this question for many years (I'm not just about to pin on Capt) and have come to quite a few answers to

You know, I think there is a much more sinister consequence to this entire debacle. It's the amazing lack of credibility that has been demonstrated by senior leaders in the Air Force. With so much fli

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Ahh, the AF Times-charging airmen to read what you can find for free elsewhere. I'm curious about that RIF-did enough Os ask for VSP that AFPC said F it, we don't need a RIF? That looks like what happened on the E side-many career fields had so many takers for the early outs that the retention boards got canx.

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Flash Forward to today: I'm assuming there are quite a bit of young guys at the Acedemy and in ROTC that constantly lurk on here and I'm sure they tell their friends the good/bad/ugly stories we discuss...have these stories influenced the young 20-year olds to not pursue taking on the longer ADSC? As naive/immature (and motivated, of course) that the pre-commisionees are, hearing all the crap we put out, not to mention the open-source info about RIFs, constant focus on SAPR stuff, you name it...this stuff eventually has to influence the younger guys.

This is already happening. I've met more than a handful of guys in RPA's who opted for this route to take advantage of the shorter ADSC (6 years vs 10). Still time to upgrade to instructor, get a couple thousand hours and be in a good position to take advantage of free agency if RPA opportunities are available on the outside. Or they can separate and use the GI Bill to get a real Master's Degree before they're 30 years old. Well planned FENCE Out, I think.

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I'm going to be a little devil's advocate here for a bit, if you dont like it, dont read it.

Did you work over the weekend? I am sure 90% of you didnt so I dont understand everyone's complaint about them taking the weekend off, there is ALWAYS going to be work to do, I always tell the execs that, OPRs will be there tomorrow, as well as 8,000 FM applications. Coming in over the weekend isnt going to make the dent, AFPC coming up with solidified guidance on how to implement them is

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Just because you didnt do your research or werent able to predict the future is no reason to jump on the AF hating bandwagon. Thats what got us into this personnel issue in the first place. I had a student who dropped RPAs at UPT and stormed out of the room throwing his beer and sat in the parking lot crying about it and I am sure there were more stories like that. Where does it say that if you get a pilot slot the AF is required to give you a cockpit? If you want guaranteed stick time go get hired by a guard unit that will have a non-RPA mission for the next 5 yrs (hint, its not going to be in a fighter). I wasnt smart enough to do that and am kicking myself in the ass when I feel I cant drink the cool aid anymore, but its not the AFs fault, I made that (uninformed) decision.

You don't think a free college education and pilot training in the world's greatest AF is worth working for big blue for 10 yrs? Do you know how long pilots at regional airlines sit in the right seat and put the gear up and down, and get paid less than your boom operator that makes you coffee and brings you your box lunch if you are nice enough to them? With AF wings and enough time you can walk right out of the Sq the day you separate and into an airline (granted they have to be hiring) making decent coin.

I am tired of everyone saying I cant take it anymore, I want out, its not what I thought it was going to be, they lied to me, its not fair. GROW UP. Was the first day of summer camp what you thought it was going to be when you were crying for your mommy? Was college what you thought it was going to be when you failed you first test? Was ROTC/UPT/SOS/your next Sq Commander what you thought it was going to be? NO!!!!!! When you signed that ADSC you knew what the ramifications were, and if you didnt then I am sorry that you are stuck in a job you hate that hasnt let you travel to at least some other part of the country or world and given you skills that you can't pay to be taught to you.

Edited by chizz
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Just because you didnt do your research...

Wut

I am tired of everyone saying I cant take it anymore, I want out, its not what I thought it was going to be, they lied to me, its not fair. GROW UP. Was the first day of summer camp what you thought it was going to be when you were crying for your mommy? Was college what you thought it was going to be when you failed you first test? Was ROTC/UPT/SOS/your next Sq Commander what you thought it was going to be? NO!!!!!! When you signed that ADSC you knew what the ramifications were, and if you didnt then I am sorry that you are stuck in a job you hate that hasnt let you travel to at least some other part of the country or world and given you skills that you can't pay to be taught to you.

Conversely I'm tired of the AF saying they can't take it anymore and want people out, then.. you know.. not doing their research and keeping people's lives in a constant state of chaos. I suggest you check that Group CC's thread Liquid posted about creating a "safe" environment from which to lead.

As far as ADSC commitment, the AF's willing to wave the MAJORITY of that now. If they don't think it's worthwhile why should flyers?

People have signed up for the military and wanted out immediately forever. Some get out, some don't, some die. You don't want to read about people bitching about being in, volunteering to get out using the AF's own processes and getting screwed? I suggest you "don't read" this thread.

Edited by 17D_guy
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I'm going to be a little devil's advocate here for a bit, if you dont like it, dont read it.

Did you work over the weekend? I am sure 90% of you didnt so I dont understand everyone's complaint about them taking the weekend off, there is ALWAYS going to be work to do, I always tell the execs that, OPRs will be there tomorrow, as well as 8,000 FM applications. Coming in over the weekend isnt going to make the dent, AFPC coming up with solidified guidance on how to implement them is

Wow.

That you would advocate treating people's livelihood like any other piece of paperwork is nauseating.

Guess what chump. You bet your ass I'd be working every night and weekend I needed to if people's livelihood hung in the balance. Just like I work nights and weekends when the mission requires it in my day to day job. AFPC is a cush job most years but this year they are fuxking up and need to put in long hours to recover from this disaster. I have no sympathy for the troops who have to cancel plans or miss their kids soccer games this weekend as long as they execute their mission which is to take care of USAF personnel. Too bad so sad welcome to the military.

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like I said, them coming in on the weekend is pointless when all they are going to do is chase everyones tail in the office. They first need to really figure out what the end state is and operate under solid guidance. Seems like they are just shotgunning it so why have someone pissed off having to come in on the weekend to send out the cancellation of retirement orders? So please tell me how them coming in on the weekend is going to make this nightmare go away? the scars are too deep. And yes, I agree altus (I am horrible at analogies) I do not think this situation is anywhere near working an OPR or dec, was just trying to say staff work in general is constant with no end in sight which kind of feels like this process is.

17D, I didnt say AFPC did their research, thats why I stated this is where we are right now. Its like the FAIP class that got screwed out of a bunch of fighters because the functional forgot to give bombers to the class prior, so his F-up screwed the next class.

I am more fed up of people operating on WOM rather than looking stuff up themselves and educating themselves. It's a shame we have to operate on WOM for the FM programs because thats all thats out there. ADSCs are AFPCs to waive, not ours. Just because they are waiving them to meet their end strength goals doesnt diminish the importance of the 10 yr someone signed up for. So if they waive a commitment of 10 down to 6, is it ok for a guy entering UPT to barter his ADSC down to a 6? I would say no.

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Chizz, I agree with you on most of the coming in on weekends stuff for the still pending FM applications. As much as it strains my patience, there's only so much they can do at a time, and throwing in weekend days doesn't really make a huge dent in the already drawn out FM program. They haven't met a deadline yet anyways....

I disagree though on the AFPC weekend work with regards to the "take back" retirement stuff. The approval retraction is much more than an OPR meeting some (essentially) arbitrary deadline. Someone who has served honorably for 15+ years certainly deserves much better than to have to wait until Monday for someone to give them an explanation (vs a robot email) and (hopefully) a solution...

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I guess I'll stop working weekends, because what is an extra day or two going to do to the war effort? The bad guys will be there Monday morning.

Could you imagine aircrew telling TACC, 'We're gonna go ahead and crew rest over the weekend. The cargo will all be there Monday, we wouldn't even be able to make a dent these next two days so we're gonna sit back and chill.'

The bottom line is, their own guidance said TERA guys would be notified BY 1 Apr and they failed, VSP apps would be processed in batches every month... So if aircrew failed to safely complete the mission every day would they keep their jobs? No, we go to an FEB where they fight to take our wings away. Huge double standard.

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Reminds me of a fighter Sq/cc who cancelled lines so his guys could to finance between 9-11&1-3 with their 2 hr lunch break. At the EOM the Wg/cc asked why he only flew 50% of his flying hrs. Needless to say, finance started working longer hrs. But the days of that happening are over, more like ops bends over for all the other agencies. God forbid the MSG would....SUPPORT the mission.

"You never have too much gas...unless you're on fire"

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Officer VSP Approved:

Significant other got VSP approval on Friday. Captain, non-pilot; here are the specs:

63A, 2008 year group

No ADSCs

6 years, 3 months at DOS
Let the party begin and good luck to everybody! This forum has been an AMAZING source for info and I cannot thank you all enough!
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Back to TERA...I submitted back in January. I have no ADSCs (11M) and I'm on the summer VML. I thought they were holding my assignment until my TERA decision was made, but I was notified of my assignment today. So now I have 7 days to decide on my assignment. It would be nice if I could talk to a REAL person about my options WRT taking the assignment and how that impacts TERA. Oh and that comes with a 15 June RNLTD.

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Back to TERA...I submitted back in January. I have no ADSCs (11M) and I'm on the summer VML. I thought they were holding my assignment until my TERA decision was made, but I was notified of my assignment today. So now I have 7 days to decide on my assignment. It would be nice if I could talk to a REAL person about my options WRT taking the assignment and how that impacts TERA. Oh and that comes with a 15 June RNLTD.

If I were you, I'd go to your local FSS and ask the highest ranking person available to call AFPC with you. I'd also adopt the mindset that I wouldn't leave their building until I had an answer of some kind. Your CC also ought to be involved.

That being said, I don't think you have an issue. If you take a look at the ADSC AFI, I think you'll find that you have 7 days to accept the assignment. You have to sign an acknowledgement of the ADSC you'll be incurring, but you don't have an ADSC at that point. You would acquire the ADSC when you actually PCS. Therefore, if you get accepted for TERA, your assignment is cancelled and you're never assigned a PCS ADSC. Presumably, there's language in the TERA PSDM that assignments are cancelled when TERA is approved. Hope that helps and good luck.

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Back to TERA...I submitted back in January. I have no ADSCs (11M) and I'm on the summer VML. I thought they were holding my assignment until my TERA decision was made, but I was notified of my assignment today. So now I have 7 days to decide on my assignment. It would be nice if I could talk to a REAL person about my options WRT taking the assignment and how that impacts TERA. Oh and that comes with a 15 June RNLTD.

Are you continued or a LtCol? What it looks like is the Air Force is cleaning house on the continued Majors but haven't approved any under 19 year LtCols yet (a big yet!)

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From the Retirement FB Page:

After a 20 minute hold, I spoke with a TFSC customer service representative. She was very polite and frustrated with the leadership as well. She explained a few things which helped clear up some questions I had. First, even though my career field went red they still may approve me. The team processing the applications had a strategy to get the job done but has had leadership change the criteria for approval daily. This explains why there is such a random spectrum of approval across different afsc's, application dates, adsc's and other eligibility criteria. Every time they try to get through a batch a new directive comes down requiring them to apply different approaches to approval. She also stated that the numbers reflected on the new matrix accounts for a lot of people approved but that have not been notified. Additionally she said the orders and operation just kidding was a mass notification error. When they put in the orders and system changes for those who were approved, the orders and system update applied incorrect values to their records. The only way to fix it was to cancel them all then redo them individually. In an effort to save time and process a large group at a time they created more work for themselves. She stated that anyone previously approved is approved and their number one priority is to fix those first before moving forward. Which means this will only add to our wait time for some answers. Take it for what its worth , she could be blowing smoke but I am still hopeful but still extremely frustrated and disappointed that they have done this to us. They have lost my trust entirely.

9 minutes ago


Edited: Removed names...

Edited by PanchBarnes
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Don't hold your breath.

There are two, separate, issues that developed this weekend.

A ton of officers had their retirement dates nullified after having been approved. These are the people from panch Barnes post. We are still approved and have been told our dates will be reloaded into the system ASAP.

The other, different, issue is the folks who actually received a message from mypers saying Oops we fd up. Sorry you ain't eligible any more. Psych! These folks will remain screwed and have lost their TERA period.

These two issues are being mashed together in discussions with TFSC unfortunately and making it even harder to decipher what the duck is actually happening and to whom.

Oh and Panch, can you edit your post to remove those folks real names from there. I know you don't mean anything by it but they may not want uncontrolled exposure.

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Back to TERA...I submitted back in January. I have no ADSCs (11M) and I'm on the summer VML. I thought they were holding my assignment until my TERA decision was made, but I was notified of my assignment today. So now I have 7 days to decide on my assignment. It would be nice if I could talk to a REAL person about my options WRT taking the assignment and how that impacts TERA. Oh and that comes with a 15 June RNLTD.

There was some wording in the original messages (that have been changed a million times since then) saying they would delay RNLTDs for folks getting assignments if they had a TERA/VSP app in, but I'm not sure what they are currently saying about it. I would definitely have the boss call and ask very specifically if accepting the assignment pulled your TERA package out of the pile. I think you should be good, but the way this whole mess has played out you never know.

BTW... welcome to BO.net! Sorry your first post has to be for such a shitty reason...

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from the Facebook site (I know the dude, legit guy):

"99/O-5/11X/No ADSC. I inquired about my status last friday and got this from the OIC of retirements this morning. "Apologies for the delay. AFPC is working with the pentagon with adjudicating the rated officer TERA applications. We will be finalizing them in the next couple days and will be sending you the decision soonest (approval or disapproval). I appreciate your patience and more to come."
If this is true then we will probably have the rest of the TERA pilot notifications within 7 days or so (for those not already approved/denied or bouncing back and forth between the two...)

So now I have 7 days to decide on my assignment.

Same thing happened to me on 17 Mar (99/O-5/11M/1yr ADSC left for GI bill transfer) ... and I simply did not sign anything. I do not want to 7-day opt out if my TERA gets denied so I figured they would just give me the assignment whether I signed the RIP or not. Low and behold, my outprocessing checklist is already loaded in vMPF and I've received an email welcoming me to my new base...and my RNLTD is 31 Jan 15. I did not want anything in the system that even looked like an ADSC so I told the boss I was not going to sign my RIP and his response was "that's fine, just don't try and 7-day opt a month from now"

This might not help your situation but it is an example of how messed up this whole TERA/VSP program has made the entire personnel system.

Edited by TrunkMonkey
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