H2Nav Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Herk bros, We just started the MPD/MAD FTU here. It is a major shift from the previous methods. Any feedback so far??? H2NAV [ 15. March 2006, 23:01: Message edited by: H2Nav ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KoolKat Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I, personally, like how we get to practice the max effort stuff in the sim, but it only get's demoed in the plane...at least my landing check was still in the plane. :rolleyes: Bottomline, my opinion only...It a way to cut money. A poor way... But, it won't be too long before there is a fairly offical opinion on what units think of their "new" CP's. I'm as interested in the responses to this one as anybody... BENDY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocker Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 What better way to train someone for a job than to teach them what they're not going to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourFans Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Rocker: "2" Learning to fly the plane from the left seat = Good Not learning a damn thing about being a co-pilot for tac missions = Piss Poor FPs are not even taught how to LOAD secures, much less use them. Basically at initial inprocessing at the new squadron...FPs are righteously right seat retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pilotpm Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 For any body going to the J model you will be assault qualified from the left seat. Not that we will be flying any in the left when we get back to our units, but still a load of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
war007afa Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I flew my first gunpig flight the other day from the right seat. Let's just say that it was VERY apparent that I had only flown from there twice before... Felt a little better towards the end of it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SpectrePilot Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Congrats. But you're still *NEXT TO* the guy with the gun! Let me guess, you're getting off the ground about once a week and getting a complete T-sortie about every 10 days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hydro130 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I just don't understand what this type of training is "buying" for Big Blue. MPD dudes come to the ops units and we have to literally train them to be copilots. No good. Plus, many of them come with an attitude that I then need to squash. "You're a dam CO, get it???" Why is the AF so interested in breeding this 'liger' half-breed, co/left-seater. What capabilities at all are we gaining from this? Why can't units ACTUALLY put traditional Cos in the left seat at 500 hours (and not just 2 weeks from their AC school date), work them out for 6 months there and do a very simple in-house upgrade? 95% of copilots are very capable of that. Still eliminates the need for a trip back to The Rock for formal AC school and is a better way to keep idiot copilots in limbo for upgrades... And, the pressure in on individual units to produce a good product would increase (This b00b was 2 years at XX AS, and get shoved off to YY AS, then XX AS is defininitly deserve a doo-doo rep in the community... Good motivator for any AS to get on its training game hardcore, which we need) Hydro [ 16. March 2006, 12:18: Message edited by: Hydro130 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lovelacm Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Hydro, I'll buy that for a dollar. I only had about 4 hours of experience in the Herk when I showed up to AC Upgrade at the Rock. Other guys (mainly the ANG/AFRES dudes) flew for hours and hours, performing assaults and other such nicities before they showed up! Can you say "Behind the power curve?" Rumor has it that folks in my neck of the woods just passed an edict that CPs won't land when they're on deployment over in the SandBox, even outside the CEP! Can anybody confirm/deny that, and if it's true please pass along the logic that goes with it? How can a CP keep basic (1/1/1) currency like that!? On my last crew as a CP, I flew the TO, Appch, and Lnd outside the box (yes, I said BOX), and the AC flew 'em inside the box... thus, our currency was good for the deployment. Makes pretty good sense, and keeps the CP's hands and head in the game. Thoughts? Cheers! Linda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hydro130 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 I'll buy that for a dollar! I've always done it IAW your last comment (Cos land everytihing outside the box). That's the way it should work! Not to come across as being a Co-basher (sts), but there's alot to be said for being a right-seat sponge for 2 years and then taking the reins after that. That's not to say that a Co can't land at a base out of the the Box in the AOR. That's silly. Thanks, Linda Hydro Box, Container, y'all get over it.... [ 16. March 2006, 12:19: Message edited by: Hydro130 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bent Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Originally posted by pilotpm: For any body going to the J model you will be assault qualified from the left seat.So that qual should stay current for a while, eh. :rolleyes: Originally posted by Hydo130: Still eliminates the need for a trip back to The Rock for formal AC school and is a better way to keep idiot copilots in limbo for upgrades...What is an idiot copilot? The radio button is right here, the gear handle is right there, the flap lever is convieniently located right in the middle...now, just sit right here, watch me and attempt to learn at least one this today, barring the fact that some dude is partially brain dead, of course. My question is what is the need for a traditional CP to go back to the Rock for AC upgrade, that an MPD guy doesn't? MPD = left seat qualified != AC qualified, therefore, what's the point? :confused: [ 16. March 2006, 12:29: Message edited by: Bent Parrot Mode 4 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JArcher00 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 PilotPM if you are who I think you are and coming back in my squadron, you WILL fly assaults from the left seat. From the J model MPD persepctive, I hate it. It is such a pain only being able to fly from the left seat with an IP. I do get to fly assaults day/unaided night/NVG from the left seat but the scheduling headache to stay current is a pain. I think it is because dooing them in the J is much easier than the others due to the heads-up display. In the box, you can only fly in the reat seat, but depending on who you are with and who you are, they will let you in the left. I wish they could downgrade me to a regular CP with the requirements they have but I asked and they said no. I guess there is worse stuff to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hydro130 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Coloring Book... Work It... Love It... Best way to avoid being an "idiot copilot" Hydro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KoolKat Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 "Pilot, Copilot. I'm going off headset for a few to go borrow the Nav's desk & red obstacle crayon, k?" "Copilot, Pilot. Where is your red crayon?" "Pilot, Copilot. I forgot to order a boxed nasty, so I ate it." "Copilot, Pilot. Alright go ahead. Idiot." BENDY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KoolKat Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Originally posted by RedDog: PilotPM if you are who I think you are and coming back in my squadron, you WILL fly assaults from the left seat.Hmmm...So all that neato technology in the J model makes new CPs allowed to do assaults from the left seat... Very interesting... BENDY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JArcher00 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 As long as they went through the J schoolhouse at big LR and were qualified. SOme new guys/gals that just came back were not NVG assault qual'd at LR so they cannot until they get in house trained. The ones who are traditional CPs from the old birds do not since they are CPs vs FPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hydro130 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 We have Wings.. Groups, Sqdns... Flights... Same held true in the cockpit previously.... AC, Co/Nav, FE, LMs.... This 'liger' crap is cats and dogs sleeping together.... No Good! Who has the dam "A-Code"? Hydro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
war007afa Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Originally posted by Safe&Clear: Let me guess, you're getting off the ground about once a week and getting a complete T-sortie about every 10 days? Waiting on the training backlog. Got two dudes in front of me (one should finish by the end of the month) who fly that schedule pretty much spot on! Since I'm waiting on them, I can't get any T-rides so I get all the pro I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KoolKat Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 NOT A THREAD-JACK, keep posting about MPD too, interesting stuff....but, Personally, I think this Bent Parrot Mode 4 dude had a good question! What are the things that you AC's makes you find a CP to be an "idiot." Be it one thing, or a series of things. We're not all idiots, but you know better than most that we don't really know WTF we're doing...if you mention it, some might not ever do it...don't count on that, but it's possible. BENDY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slacker Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 Huge generalizations follow- Some of MPD guys think they're better than they are, they think they know it all or can do it all. I remember being a copilot and keeping my mouth shut for the first 300 hours. I just tried to learn and that's what my peers did also. Little rock has sold these MPD guys a bad bill of goods. They don't get profiecent in any seat. They suck in the left seat and they suck in the right seat. Bring back copilots. Make a guy good at one job on the plane. Not some pilot who thinks being an A/C is just about flying in the left seat- and they can do that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest volman Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 As a current MPD student, I think this is one of the AF's worst ideas ever. As mentioned above, we are spending the majority of our time training to do a job that we are still a few years away from being able to do. I've been hearing this a lot so I'm guessing there must be some validity to it, but have MPD guys really shown up to their SQ and not expected to be a co-pilot? I'm not sure where they are getting that mentality because it is not being taught down here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HercDude Posted March 17, 2006 Share Posted March 17, 2006 We got our first MPD guy last summer, but I am not sure that any of them are ever flying from the left seat. It's tough enough for a traditional co-pilot to keep all his currencies between deployments, let alone a whole new list of them from the left seat. Like anything else I guess we'll just make it work. But I have a hard time seeing how we are going to find the training lines to take care of these guys, while at the same time teaching them how to work as a co-pilot. And I haven't seen any of them show up with an attitude like they are better than a traditional CP, which is good because they'd get put in their place right quick like by a lot of people we have who thinks the whole program is a waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingHerc Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 I just got done with the rock and am now out in kirtland doing the king school house here, and I have to say I feel so behind the power curve. I wish I had my rides sitting as the copilot, then the transition wouldnt be so rough, but now not only am I have to learn the spec ops way of doing things I have to learn stuff I should have already learned at the rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2Nav Posted March 18, 2006 Author Share Posted March 18, 2006 Great stuff, Sometimes it is hard to tell from working in the FTU what the units are truly getting out of our training. It's a boring job sometimes, but someone has to do it. Keep the feedback going! H2NAV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockheedFix Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Personally, I think this "getting to your unit and not knowing how to be a CP" talk is a bunch of crap. I don't know if anybody has noticed, but a copilot doesn't really do all that much. It takes about 1/2 a tac ride (if that) at your new squadron to pick up on all these "traditional CP duties." I still have yet to figure out exactly what they did not teach us MPD guys that they used to teach traditional Co's. Gear up: check (learned it in UPT) Talk to ATC: check (learned it in UPT) Run the checklists: N/A Being a CP = not that hard [ 18. March 2006, 00:37: Message edited by: herk28 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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