Chicken Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 (edited) Anyone know exactly the weight of a SOS training report and its weight on an O4 board? I know if you get top 1/3 or DG it reflects that, but are the rest of them canned or what? I have consistant strats throughout most of my OPRs as well as the other required crap, so I would assume combat time, deployments, strats, awards, decs etc would hold more weight than the SOS training report? Edited July 2, 2008 by Chicken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickhistory Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 DG" good! Not a DG? checked the square, good on ya, next..... One non-DG's opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Posted July 2, 2008 Author Share Posted July 2, 2008 DG" good! Not a DG? checked the square, good on ya, next..... One non-DG's opinion. Yea I thought so too... just wondering if there is something that could be on my training report that could hurt me.. too late at this point, but let's say my FC and I didn't see eye to eye on what really matters, and what doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Brick hit the main points. DG will more than likely get you a DP on your O-4 PRF. Anything else and it means you checked the block. Obviously, there are other factors that go into your PRF besides DG but, you are taking 600 O-3's (your peers from around the USAF) and putting them together in one program. Those that get DG are going to be the bright and shiny's leaving that. Top 1/3, don't know how much weight that holds since it broadens the pool somewhat and doesn't mean the same. Most of the stuff is canned. I would find it difficult to believe that someone is going to take vengeance on you for having a difference of opinion. Now, if what you are trying to say by "didn't see eye to eye on what really matters" is that you didn't show up to class on time, were unprofessional, and had to see the Commandant 69 times for insubordination then I could see where your TR would get the special attention that it deserves. Overall, don't sweat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Posted July 3, 2008 Author Share Posted July 3, 2008 Brick hit the main points. DG will more than likely get you a DP on your O-4 PRF. Anything else and it means you checked the block. Obviously, there are other factors that go into your PRF besides DG but, you are taking 600 O-3's (your peers from around the USAF) and putting them together in one program. Those that get DG are going to be the bright and shiny's leaving that. Top 1/3, don't know how much weight that holds since it broadens the pool somewhat and doesn't mean the same. Most of the stuff is canned. I would find it difficult to believe that someone is going to take vengeance on you for having a difference of opinion. Now, if what you are trying to say by "didn't see eye to eye on what really matters" is that you didn't show up to class on time, were unprofessional, and had to see the Commandant 69 times for insubordination then I could see where your TR would get the special attention that it deserves. Overall, don't sweat it. None of those.. showed up on time sober everyday. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter14 Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 None of those.. showed up on time sober everyday. Thanks. Wow. Good on ya. You should have seen my flight on the last day of SOS. Not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I've heard that a DG at SOS is almost a guarantee for ACSC in residence, which is almost a guarantee for LtCol (esp as a pilot). Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fueL2Fight Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I've heard that a DG at SOS is almost a guarantee for ACSC in residence, which is almost a guarantee for LtCol (esp as a pilot). Thoughts? I think you've been having some gay-ass conversations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergman Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I've heard that a DG at SOS is almost a guarantee for ACSC in residence, which is almost a guarantee for LtCol (esp as a pilot). Thoughts? I would say that is an accurate statement. Keep in mind that most folks who manage to get DG at SOS are probably not slackers in their day-to-day jobs. So DG is probably not the only indicator of competence. As for Lt Col...the residence ACSC studs are "must moves" every summer, so they are filled first. I would also imagine there is a push to get them better assignments since they have already been identified as "fast burners". If a person gets a good NAF/USAF-level job after ACSC and does well, it seems pretty easy to work a SQ DO/CC tour after than...then Air War College in residence, and on to O-6. Amazing how 6 weeks could potentially define a career. Standard disclaimers apply, but I have seen this exact scenario too many times to discount it as timing or luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsokimapilot Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I've heard that a DG at SOS is almost a guarantee for ACSC in residence, which is almost a guarantee for LtCol (esp as a pilot). Thoughts? I think it takes more than doing good at a month long course to align you for LtCol. I would hope they look at the whole person not just a training report. I would say that is an accurate statement. Keep in mind that most folks who manage to get DG at SOS are probably not slackers in their day-to-day jobs. So DG is probably not the only indicator of competence. As for Lt Col...the residence ACSC studs are "must moves" every summer, so they are filled first. I would also imagine there is a push to get them better assignments since they have already been identified as "fast burners". If a person gets a good NAF/USAF-level job after ACSC and does well, it seems pretty easy to work a SQ DO/CC tour after than...then Air War College in residence, and on to O-6. Amazing how 6 weeks could potentially define a career. Standard disclaimers apply, but I have seen this exact scenario too many times to discount it as timing or luck. To defend my last point. That may be true but the guys that get DG I would suspect have good OPRs and PRF going to the board. It is just one more strat; not the only strat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slowmover Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 (edited) When you meet your majors board (generally 4th-5th year as an O-3), the top 20% will be designated as "selects." These selects will go to IDE in residence -- that could be ACSC, a sister service program, an exchange school, or some other program. For these 20%, the promote rate to O-5 is about 100%. So, if you can get yourself racked and stacked as a "select" at your majors board, you pretty much have it made to O-5. Not necessarily a command slot -- different bowl of cherries -- but O-5. For the remaining 80% who are not "selects," they compete every year for 3 years for a chance to go to school in residence. A total of about 30% (round numbers) of O-4s do IDE in residence -- those 20% plus the others that got picked up along the way. The promote rate from O-3 to O-4 is in the mid 90s. If you do your PME and have no negative OPRs then you are probably safe for O-4. No PME = no O-4. As far as how to be a "select," it takes more than just DG or Top Third out of SOS, but that certainly helps. If you have crappy OPRs but DG, I would guess you wouldn't be a select. But if you have strong OPRs with consistently strong strats and do well at SOS, then your chances of being a select are pretty good. I think that combat time and normal career progression helps. Guys that are late to rate and meet the majors board as basic ACs or even FPs (as opposed to IPs and EPs) might not do as well -- that would be my guess. Anything you do to positively discriminate yourself (WIC, AMC's Phoenix programs, etc.) makes you more competitive at the O-4 board. So yes, it is possible to do well enough as a captain to almost coast to O-5. But those type of dudes aren't typically coasters. And those 6 weeks at SOS might not make or break you, but you could certainly argue that they are the most important 6 weeks in your first 8 years of service, if you want to get promoted above O-4. But if you just want to fly and be a good dude in your unit, here's my advice: do the best you can at the job you're given, pick your battles, do your PME and you'll probably be fine, and you'll still have a good chance of making O-5. And all this is from the experience of one line O-4, not an AFPC dude or somebody who knows how the system works from their perspective. Edited July 6, 2009 by Slowmover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I think it takes more than doing good at a month long course to align you for LtCol. I would hope they look at the whole person not just a training report. I got a training report from SOS??? Everything said so far is correct. Most guys who DG out of SOS are usually set through LtCol .However, they do not always make the Phoenix Eagle list. If you do ACSC in residence you will make LtCol unless you are caught with a live boy or a dead girl and vise versa for the female officers. Additionally, I have seen plenty of people never DG anything and do just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herk Driver Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Guys that are late to rate and meet the majors board as basic ACs or even FPs (as opposed to IPs and EPs) might not do as well -- that would be my guess. You were on solid ground up to that point. Don't know if you are late to rate or not, but from my experirence, this is not the case. I didn't want to go in the whole point paper like Slowmover did, but he is spot on evry where else. Obviously, my earlier statement like Bergman's is grossly oversimplified, but still a valid point. As has been said, the folks who are getting SOS DG are probably not slackersi n their day jobs. That is not to say that those that don't get DG are slackers. It is yet one more validator for a board, but carries much weight. You may be #1 in your Sq for such and such but you are not being eval'd against 599 of your peers in that group usually. Each and every "meaningful" strat that get is useful. I would point out though that this and beign a good dude in the squadron are not mutually exclusive as slowmover eluded to, "But if you just want to fly and be a good dude in your unit, here's my advice: do the best you can at the job you're given, pick your battles, do your PME and you'll probably be fine..." Do the best you can at what you are given. Piss and moan every know and again. Be a leader and get sh!t done. Make a difference. You will do well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Caddis Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 What is the typical, non fast burner time line for promotion these days? Is it still 2 and 2 to Capt at 4? When do you meet your Maj and LtCol boards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bender Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 2, 2 and 4 is the norm. I know fast burners, so I'll comment on it again in a few more years. Boards...you should expect your O-4 board 8 in. By all means, try and get UTZ. I'm no moron...but, UTZ O-4 isn't something I am willing to do. Could I...I think so, but I should have started trying long ago. I know one guy that could even try at this point... Between you and me...I don't think he wants it...he doesn't fly enough as it is (and he's a junior captain.) This is like alot of other things. Find a "written on paper way" to look good... whatever. Way less important than being shit hot and getting the nod. It never hurts, but if the only people that DIDNT made LTC were SOS DG, the AF would be AOK. Don't be a douche bag. BENDY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jollygreen Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I'm no moron...but, UTZ O-4 isn't something I am willing to do. What is UTZ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 What is UTZ? BTZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 BTZ BTZ to Maj went away a long time ago. LtCol is you first shot at BTZ. Your 2 below board usually comes at the 11-12 year point. What is UTZ? UTZ = BTZ for Cyber Command Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Anyone know exactly the weight of a SOS training report I just weighed mine and it is about .013 oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bender Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 What is UTZ? I was hoping that upon inspection the 'U' key was closely located to the 'B' key on my typing apparatus...but, alas I find no solice there. However, I will find it in the fact that 1) Your retorical question, which was promptly answered made me laugh and 2) I could not care less...much like making major or LtCol or Col...more less SOS DG. What happens happens. Under, Below...you still have the b_tch riding you, what difference does it make? BENDY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Smoke_Jaguar4 Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Answering the original question: This AFPC spreadsheet breaks out the promotion statistics, including P/DP status and PME: http://wwa.afpc.randolph.af.mil/demographi...ne%20Master.xls If you attend SOS in residence, then the promotion rate is ~95%. This is regardess of how you or your flight did or if you have a "P" or "DP". If you have a "DP" and nothing negative on your OPRs, then you're good to go. Promotion to Major is becoming almost as automatic as 1Lt to Capt. On "P" vs "DP", a Wing/CC can give 75% of his candidates a "DP". This happens to nearly coincide with 80% of officers attend SOS in residence (also selected by their Wing/CC). So what tends to happen is (barring any problem OPRs): SOS in residence -> "DP" -> garanteed O-4 SOS by correspondence -> "P" -> ~70% promotion rate No SOS at all -> "P" (in some cases, "DNP"!) -> Civilian BTZ Where DG and the trophies have impact is ACSC 'Select' vs 'Candidate', as Slowmover explained above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooter Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Answering the original question: This AFPC spreadsheet breaks out the promotion statistics, including P/DP status and PME: http://wwa.afpc.randolph.af.mil/demographi...ne%20Master.xls If you attend SOS in residence, then the promotion rate is ~95%. This is regardess of how you or your flight did or if you have a "P" or "DP". If you have a "DP" and nothing negative on your OPRs, then you're good to go. Promotion to Major is becoming almost as automatic as 1Lt to Capt. On "P" vs "DP", a Wing/CC can give 75% of his candidates a "DP". This happens to nearly coincide with 80% of officers attend SOS in residence (also selected by their Wing/CC). So what tends to happen is (barring any problem OPRs): SOS in residence -> "DP" -> garanteed O-4 SOS by correspondence -> "P" -> ~70% promotion rate No SOS at all -> "P" (in some cases, "DNP"!) -> Civilian BTZ Where DG and the trophies have impact is ACSC 'Select' vs 'Candidate', as Slowmover explained above. Anybody here not go to SOS in-res and still get promoted? Cooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sputnik Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 On "P" vs "DP", a Wing/CC can give 75% of his candidates a "DP". This happens to nearly coincide with 80% of officers attend SOS in residence (also selected by their Wing/CC). So what tends to happen is (barring any problem OPRs): Wow, where'd you get the 75%? Not saying you're wrong, I just thought it was less, closer to 50% for O4. Wha'ts the percentage of DPs for O5, anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Noonin Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Wha'ts the percentage of DPs for O5, anyone know? I believe DP for O-5 is only 10%. Not positive, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lothar Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Anybody here not go to SOS in-res and still get promoted? Cooter I, among many others, have been promoted with only SOS in correspondence under my belt. Nothing particularly flashy about my previous OPRs, so I tend to agree that promotion to Major is easily attainable as long as all of the "absolutely required" squares are filled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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