Guest CBMstud Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 ok.. so getting ready to fill out my dream sheet and was wondering if there was an update to the C-17 situation that this thread talked about back in Sept 2008. Anything changed as far as hours for Co's? or sending guys to UAVs? Do they still have the abundance of Copilots that they don't know what to do with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUSEPLUG Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 ok.. so getting ready to fill out my dream sheet and was wondering if there was an update to the C-17 situation that this thread talked about back in Sept 2008. Anything changed as far as hours for Co's? or sending guys to UAVs? Do they still have the abundance of Copilots that they don't know what to do with? Like most everything else in life, it's cyclical. One month co's are fighting for trips, then the next they're getting quickturned back to the stage right as post-mission crewrest ends. Guys and gals (copilots) are still getting picked off for UAV's and NSA's with as little as a year TOS. Most of the white jet assignments are going to AC's and above. AC upgrade is coming for most people at the 2.5 year timeframe. Still a great jet to fly with an awesome mission. Rest assured the selection process for who stays and who goes is NOT random. There is a certain level of "natural selection" in the squadrons, but very rarely a good dude gets the hose. I'm sure that's true with any airframe though. Don't let any of what you read here sway your decision. It changes so frequently that what is status quo today won't be so in 6 months. Cyclical. Disclaimer: I speak strictly from a CHS point-of-view. And on that note, if you want to come to Charleston, be sure you are Master's complete and you should be working on SOS in residence if you are a within 6 months of pinning on 1Lt. Ph.D highly encouraged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Form 8 Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Disclaimer: I speak strictly from a CHS point-of-view. And on that note, if you want to come to Charleston, be sure you are Master's complete and you should be working on SOS in residence if you are a within 6 months of pinning on 1Lt. Ph.D highly encouraged. Glad to see leadership there has their priorities together with a recent Class A they just had. Focus on professional development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFreddie Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Glad to see leadership there has their priorities together with a recent Class A they just had. Focus on professional development. I was mentioning the same thing on my last trip out in the lowly C-5. People are more worried about getting their masters and PME done than being a better pilot. Sad state of affairs... And there are freaking C-17s everywhere. How many does the AF have at this point? BF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coasta Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 And there are freaking C-17s everywhere. How many does the AF have at this point? 187 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaw2001 Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 At McChord, you will definitely fly a ton as a co-pilot. Right now, expect a trip a month (10 days) at the least. Also, if you want to go Airdrop, it seems we send people to AD school pretty early up here which is good because your SA as a co-pilot benefits greatly after the school. People freak out about the UAV thing. If you do your thing, perform well as a co-pilot, you'll be safe. It is pretty much a non-factor if you are able to meet the normal upgrade standard (AC by 2 years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addict Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Does CHS actually ask their copilots to deploy an extra 2 months when their squadron is home in order to get more experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateAF Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 ok.. so getting ready to fill out my dream sheet and was wondering if there was an update to the C-17 situation that this thread talked about back in Sept 2008. Anything changed as far as hours for Co's? or sending guys to UAVs? Do they still have the abundance of Copilots that they don't know what to do with? Recently things have picked up for copilots...hours are there for those that want them, but life's not terribly crazy. At least out at KSUU the non-vols have slowed considerably. We are pushing an experimental East Coast Mission Link that returns crews in 14 days with near 100 hours of flying - should normalize within a few months to 80 solid hours per 14 day SRT. Disclaimer: Past returns are no guarantee of future performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyguy2181 Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Does CHS actually ask their copilots to deploy an extra 2 months when their squadron is home in order to get more experience? Every time a squadron deploys, there is always a request for additional people.... anything from EPs to brand new copilots. They just want a couple people to help out with their squadron (to allow SOLL II not to deploy, family issues, etc). It is purely a volunteer thing and nobody expects any pilot to volunteer. Many people do it to upgrade before their next deployment or to get some quality experience/hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateAF Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Dumbest thing I have ever heard of. If you want to do this for the co-pilots thats fine. Send them off to fly with other squadrons. The rest of us who have flown in the C-17 for more than 3 years remember this as "The Charleston Stage" and it fncking sucks. The whole point of going to the 2 squadron deployed system was to LESSEN the amount of time crews spent on the road TDY hacking the mish when NOT deployed as a squadron. It was simple and beautiful, and it had inherent flaws... like dudes werent going to get hours as fast, fly down range as much and only about half your AATS commitment would be required. The rest of time you WERENT gone was yours - to train, be at home with the family and, god forbid - GET PROFICIENT. And now we've come full circle, just as we were destined to. Dudes getting pissy and dropping papers because they dont fly enough vs are never home because they fly too much! Unreal! We all knew it was going to happen, as soon as the ABILITY to make it happen appeared (i.e., less crews required by AMC/TACC because the deployed squadrons were flying more missions = more crews at home = more airlift capability because we arent crew deficient anymore). It was only a matter of time before TACC/AMC told you to drop your training fence and get all your crews on the road. The Charleston Stage is the death of the good deal dudes... its the tip of the iceberg. Welcome back to being gone 250+ days a year. And we've done it to ourselves... its a matter of time before every base has a bravo commitment again and we are deadheading crews out the stage again to 'augment' the deployed squadrons... and that means sitting bravo! Bravo! Good thing PACAF doesnt play that game! Cant wait to get back to AMC in a year. Not. Chuck Chuck, Usually you're right on the money - however I know you're off the mark on this one. Allow me to explain... This is NOT the Charleston Stage Ops of years past. You may have heard rumors of ECML up in PACAF but let me flesh it out a little. Crews TR to the East Coast (Dover right now) and fly a SUU/TCM tail for 14 days. When they're done they TR back. They DON'T sit at CHS/DOV to burn time nor do they sit at CHS/DOV waiting for a mission. Everything is planned out in advance so they know pretty much the whole time they'll be flying. The only reason this initiative came about was to reduce empty CONUS prepo/depo legs...the amount of money that SUU/TCM was spending moving empty airplanes back and forth between home stations and East Coast cargo onload stations was ridiculous - we are saving money and crewdogs want to fly these missions! AFPirate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoAround Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 Chuck, Usually you're right on the money - however I know you're off the mark on this one. Allow me to explain... This is NOT the Charleston Stage Ops of years past. You may have heard rumors of ECML up in PACAF but let me flesh it out a little. Crews TR to the East Coast (Dover right now) and fly a SUU/TCM tail for 14 days. When they're done they TR back. They DON'T sit at CHS/DOV to burn time nor do they sit at CHS/DOV waiting for a mission. Everything is planned out in advance so they know pretty much the whole time they'll be flying. The only reason this initiative came about was to reduce empty CONUS prepo/depo legs...the amount of money that SUU/TCM was spending moving empty airplanes back and forth between home stations and East Coast cargo onload stations was ridiculous - we are saving money and crewdogs want to fly these missions! AFPirate Just got back from DOV on one of these missions. Trip was cut short, but got 52 hours in 6 days--almost timed out for 7 day limit. Esp long since the DIPs issue hasn't cleared going into OEF...sucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck17 Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Chuck, Usually you're right on the money - however I know you're off the mark on this one. Allow me to explain... This is NOT the Charleston Stage Ops of years past. You may have heard rumors of ECML up in PACAF but let me flesh it out a little. Crews TR to the East Coast (Dover right now) and fly a SUU/TCM tail for 14 days. When they're done they TR back. They DON'T sit at CHS/DOV to burn time nor do they sit at CHS/DOV waiting for a mission. Everything is planned out in advance so they know pretty much the whole time they'll be flying. The only reason this initiative came about was to reduce empty CONUS prepo/depo legs...the amount of money that SUU/TCM was spending moving empty airplanes back and forth between home stations and East Coast cargo onload stations was ridiculous - we are saving money and crewdogs want to fly these missions! AFPirate Youre the one living the dream dude, so I gotta respect what you say. Reattack in 6 months... Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellsworb Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Just got back from DOV on one of these missions. Trip was cut short, but got 52 hours in 6 days--almost timed out for 7 day limit. Esp long since the DIPs issue hasn't cleared going into OEF...sucks! "2". I've done 2 of these. They are badass. I've been lucky and originated on one and flew a TCM tail back to TCM on another. 14 day keepers, never deal with the stage, and I know exactly where I'm going for the next 4 days. Also, when we TR, we don't carry all the crap. Chuck, I'll agree that we have come full circle, but we haven't done it to ourselves. There has been quite a lot of visibility on the "airlift availability" at AMC and TACC over the last 3 years, and the lack of application. So much for those "handshake" agreements among our leaders to keep crews home with the new EAS. Those leaders have punched, and a fresh batch of dudes are in to get that bullet. It was nice for about 16 months after the 2 EAS, then the writing was on the wall. Next step is to get the PACAF CC to make you guys play, then all will be bitter in Strat Airlift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayton Bigsby Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Won't things not be quite as harsh as they were pre-2 EAS, in the small fact that there's a lot more bases with -17s up and running now? Back then, it was CHS and TCM taking up the whole load, with a couple McGuire crews mixed in - Travis and Dover weren't really in the picture quite yet. Also you don't have a bunch of KC-135 squadrons on orders not to refuel, but to fly the pain-train Rotater... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Form 8 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Also you don't have a bunch of KC-135 squadrons on orders not to refuel, but to fly the pain-train Rotater... Rotator cargo and passengers don't go together on KC-135's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightrider03 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Just a quick questions to the 17 folks who've had a couple assignments under their belts. What are the odds of being able to go to the air drop side of things after an assignment on the air land side (specifically those coming from a base where air drop was not an option)? I'd assume it isn't particularly common, and being late to rate is probably even more of restriction, but I'm curious. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Just a quick questions to the 17 folks who've had a couple assignments under their belts. What are the odds of being able to go to the air drop side of things after an assignment on the air land side (specifically those coming from a base where air drop was not an option)? I'd assume it isn't particularly common, and being late to rate is probably even more of restriction, but I'm curious. Thanks. If you are still young, meaning second assignment you should not have any problem. However, it is all timing. There are guys who don't get to do airdrop that have been at airdrop bases. Never hurts to ask. I did... They said no! I will admit, it hurt a little, but I am old and busted, they want the new hotness in airdrop! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateAF Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 (edited) Old and busted...new hotness. Nice reference! The word is that if you have a pulse they will send you to CP/AD from Charleston. McChord seems to actually vet their candidates. That might be complete poop rumor and then that might be closer to factual... Are you headed to CHS/TCM or to one of the PACAF squads? (edited for Gnilleps) Edited July 18, 2009 by PirateAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LTB@UPT Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Found out on assignment night that I am going to McChord! I can't wait to get out there! What do I need to do when I get there to get in on the airdrop side of the house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Form 8 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Found out on assignment night that I am going to McChord! I can't wait to get out there! What do I need to do when I get there to get in on the airdrop side of the house? Probably learn how to be the best copilot you can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tundra AC Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Long time lurker here. I figured this could either go in this thread, or over in Force Re-shaping...so apologies if I got it wrong. Heard from a C-17 bro at Dover that the reserve crew ratios are getting cut. Sounds like they are going to try to handle this with normal attrition, but it still seems like a lot of people to get rid of. Anyone hearing about this at the other C-17 reserve units? Here's the numbers I saw in the FY10 plan: Reserve C-17 crew ratio reduction: SUU: -21 drill TCM: -73 drill/-4 ART CHS: -79 drill/-2 ART WRI: -21 drill RIV: -7 drill/-7 ART DOV: -21 drill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck17 Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 (edited) 1. Kick ass by keeping your MOUTH SHUT and EARS OPEN. There is a sense of entitlement that permeates the young copilot ranks nowadays... "I should be airdrop", "I should be on this trip", "I shouldnt have to fly today", "I should upgrade early"... on and on. Ive seen it at my squadron and at others. Its disgusting. So keep your mouth shut and LEARN. And I mean LEARN... if I ask you how long the wingspan is or what the start limits are on the engines I shouldnt get the deer in the headlights look. Dont quibble, take instruction and dont try to show off. You IPs will crush you if you do, deservedly so. 2. Tell them you want to go airdrop early and often. 3. Learn what airdrop does... its more than throwing shit out the back. 4. Dont give up. I had an acting DO take my airdrop slot away from me when I returned from deployment in 05. He said I wouldnt complete the upgrade to IP and AC Airdropper by the time I left McChord. Turns out the Commander hadnt heard about the change he made to my (and about 4 others) plans. I went over the DO's head to the boss, he lost his goddamned mind on the DO (even asked him "Whos squadron is this, mine or yours?" and gave me my slot back. The DO hates my guts but he can go fnck himself. Chuck Edited July 19, 2009 by Chuck17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Long time lurker here. I figured this could either go in this thread, or over in Force Re-shaping...so apologies if I got it wrong. Heard from a C-17 bro at Dover that the reserve crew ratios are getting cut. Sounds like they are going to try to handle this with normal attrition, but it still seems like a lot of people to get rid of. Anyone hearing about this at the other C-17 reserve units? Here's the numbers I saw in the FY10 plan: Reserve C-17 crew ratio reduction: SUU: -21 drill TCM: -73 drill/-4 ART CHS: -79 drill/-2 ART WRI: -21 drill RIV: -7 drill/-7 ART DOV: -21 drill Yes, everything you are hearing is true. My wife is a reservist the TCM and they think a lot of people who are eligible to retire will go ahead and do it to keep others from getting fired. They would rather do it this was since this gets rid of about 80% of the O-5s in these squadrons. We will see what happens, they do seem to be serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PirateAF Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Same here - I've heard 25% manning cuts to be accomplished by, I believe 2011, through attrition. Hiring will definitely slow down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flyguitar Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Coming up on assignment night, anyone mind posting an update to C-17 ops tempo and family life? Greatly appreciated. Oh...my first post. :P Edited October 28, 2009 by Flyguitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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