Chida

Other thing about going for O-6. First you need to compete, then get on the list, then pin-on, then in 3 yrs you can retire (if you’re looking to get the biggest high-36). Total evolution: 4-5 yrs.

When a Regular Retiree retires again from ARC, his regular retirement pay will be recomputed to add all credits from ARC service.

Probably not. They’ll claim you were never in the IRR since you didn’t get a reserve commission. So I’d proceed as if you’re being accessed as a civilian, unless you want to try to get ARPC to acknowledge that you should have been in the IRR and then place you there, but I’ll say it will be a long time (or maybe never) before you’ll see a resolution.

He shouldn’t have a break if AFPC/ARPC did it right. It should have been RegAF to IRR directly. But historically they do not do it right. If he finds that they gave him a break during that time he was in the IRR he would have a good BCMR case, I’d think.

You’d do a conditional release DD Form 368 with the ARPC general as the releasing authority on the USAFR side. Call ARPC to get the process going. It’s supposed to work like this: you fill out the form as much as you can with your recruiter’s help, general signs the release and sends it back to you. Once your NG unit commissions you, have their HR fill out rest of form and send it with the documents proving your commissioning (orders, oath form, etc) to ARPC. ARPC will then backdate a discharge from USAFR the day prior to your Army commission. This will prevent a break in service.

Back to the IRR subject: frequently it happens that a regular officer will leave RegAF and due to whatever reason owes time in the IRR or is otherwise placed in the IRR. Unless the officer takes positive action to obtain a reserve commission (ie meet with a recruiter and get scrolled) he won’t have a commission. (So how can he be an officer?!) ARPC will have this former officer meet promotion boards until he’s twice passed over and then kick him out of the reserve. If he obtains a reserve commission prior to this eventuality, ARPC will then give him a break in service acting as if he was never in the IRR until he received his reserve commission! They’re talking out of both sides of their mouth on this one and as usual are very confused.

Yeah that’s bad gouge. I second what Scooter said.

1 calendar day not in a component. As an aside and contrary to law, ARPC maintains that an “officer’s” membership in IRR is without component unless you possess a reserve commission. A break in service does the following: 1. Makes you ineligible to meet a promotion board until you have 365 days continuous service 2. Adjusts, by the number of days’ break, your DOR, pay date, R/R date, TFCSD, TYSD, Aviation service date (although this is additionally adjusted for however long you’re not in an aviation status). 3. Causes you to have a partial yr and thus partial membership points 4. Can cause, if you’re not careful, a bad year, which can lead to a situation where you may not be able to get into sanctuary before you’re kicked out for a 2nd passover. Beyond those reasons, a break in service just causes your timeline to stretch out—effectively pausing time spent in service.

In this case you will receive a regular retirement as an O-5 (plus the points you received as a DSG when you re-retire from the guard). At age 60 (or RRPA) you may apply for a reserve retirement as an O-6. https://www.jbsa.mil/News/News/Article/2223797/converting-active-duty-retirement-to-afr-ang-retirement/

The hits just keep on coming, though! I just found out that DFAS computes reserve retirement pay only on whole months, so unless you can increase your point total to the next 30 day increment, those 29 points are wasted effort! From DOD FMR Vol 7B, Chapter 1 (they speak of points as days): 4.7 Age and Service Retirement – Non-Regular Total days of service, divided by 360 equals equivalent years and any fraction of a year of service. Note: Under 10 U.S.C. § 1401, before applying percentage factor, each full month of service that is in addition to the number of full years of service is creditable as one-twelfth of a year. The remaining fractional parts of a month are disregarded. Example: I'm projected to have 5141 points or 14.28 years, but the fraction of a month is dropped, so rounding down to the whole month =14.25 yrs (14 yrs, 3 months)=5130 points.

Well I thought I had seen the TIG change for reserve majors in 10 USC 1370A, and now I can't find it. So it may be possible that Congress only changed the TIG requirement for Regular Majors. I'll consider this one to be undetermined unless someone can post up the law change specific to Reserve Majors for us.

I went back to my job during leave accrued from ADOS. Some rando at my Reserve sq was trying to tell me that leave had to end in the local area. I disagreed and disregarded bc it is a defacto terminal leave, something full-timers who have never been part-timers are apparently unable to grasp.

The AFI you quoted is not up to speed with law yet, so it should say “grade higher than O-3.” The key verbiage in the AFI is “or during creditable service for AFR members retiring under 10 USC § 12731.” Creditable service as interpreted by ARPC: participating status and all good years for 3 yrs TIG or if over 20 good yrs and retiring on a partial year, a pro-rated good year. Main thing is 3 yrs TIG must be 3 whole years from effective date of rank that are good or pro-rated good AND in a participating status. The relevant law is 10 USC 1370A, not to be confused with 1370(a).

It used to be in the lodging reg, along with other standards such as air conditioning, which I used to justify getting off-base lodging due to “adverse effects”, back when I did aircrew TDYs.

SocialD: I ran a simulation using historical pay charts for 2 guys who make O-6 in the reserve. Assumptions to simplify: both entered service & commissioned 1 Jan 1985, birthday 1 Jan, age at commissioning 23, served continuously, did not have a RRPA so started drawing retired pay at age 60. The first guy does his 3 yrs TIG as an O-6 and holds O-6 when he transfers to the Retired Reserve at age 46, Jan 2008, with 23 years of "active service". His high-36 is O-6 at >34 yrs for 2019, 2020, 2021: $11901, $12270, $12638=$12269. The 2nd guy does not do 3 yrs TIG as an O-6, but does only 1 yr as an O-6, and transfers to the Retired Reserve as an O-5 at age 44, Jan 2006, with 21 years of "active service". That one year he did as an O-6 in 2005 was $7763. His high-36 is O-5 at >34 years for 2019, 2020, 2021: $9521, $9816, $10111= $9816. As you can see, due to inflation of the pay charts, that one year he did as an O-6 way back in 2005 has no bearing on the high-36 calculation.

I attached additional info from DFAS that I downloaded a while ago DFAS_retirement_explanation.pdf

A point of confusion is the concept of "holding grade". Used to be, prior to 1996 if I recall, if you wore the rank even 1 day, you held it. After 96, the concept of Time-in-grade was introduced in order to cause people to serve longer and to save money on those that refused to serve longer. One can only "hold" their rank now if they meet the Time-in-grade. ARPC & AFPC institutionally have never quite figured this out and it shows in the AFI's bc they only discuss "holding grade" in the context of an officer grade determination which is quite another subject. So when ARPC says you'll go to the Retired Reserve with your HGH (highest grade held), people incorrectly take that to mean the "highest grade attained" and that is a fundamental misunderstanding of what HGH means. Not to belabor the point, but I quite enjoy foiling the machinations of AF whenever I can: Another point of confusion is the concept of "satisfactory service" which has quite different meanings depending on the context. For someone who doesn't understand the varied meanings, it can cause quite the mess when "reading" various AFIs, laws, DOD instructions, etc. In the context of what we're discussing. Satisfactory service in pursuit of qualifying for a reserve retirement involves 365 days and 50 points earned. Once you get 20 good years, the concept of satisfactory service to that end is finished. Unfortunately, due to a fundamental mis-interpretation of the statutes, ARPC has gone on to say that your continuing service must be in a "participating status" in order to get TIG and you must continue to accrue satisfactory years--thus specifically excluding time in the IRR (even though the officer is still on the RASL).

10 USC 1370A is one source. One is definitely demoted when transferred to the grey area if he can’t hold his rank. This new rank then becomes a basis for actual high-36 calculations which are performed at age 60 or the RRPA. How could it be otherwise? Additional proof of this is what 4Fans detailed above with his original transfer order in which ARPC couldn’t seem to figure out something as basic as a DOR!

DFAS and ARPC are incredibly confused…. Technically they are correct in part, but due to inflation of the pay charts over a typical 16-yr or so stay in the grey-area, they are most likely (for the vast majority of typical part-timers) incorrect on this point. One can demonstrate using past pay charts to show their hypothetical actual high-36. Where they are most definitely incorrect is the rank in the grey area. One holds their rank by achieving required TIG while in a participating status. If not, then you get bucked down for the entirety of the grey area.

4Fans: That'd be a "why" question, but I'll take a stab. Based on what I've observed over 10 years as a reserve/guard, it is now clear to me that RegAF 1. does not "like" the part-time ARC and would rather it not be a thing, 2. Has never gotten on board with the idea that ARC members rate a retirement (or anything, really). As a result nothing has ever fundamentally changed and nothing will change, I predict. Witness Congress over the years repeatedly tell DOD to fix the ARC's systemic problems, and what happens? Study after study, making Rand rich, but no hint of systemic change ever happens, just more band-aids. Examples: 1. Early in the GWOT RegAF complained that it was "hard" to access reserves for their purposes. DOD came up with yet another duty status called ADOS (we're now up to 30 duty statuses, BTW). RegAF worried that Reserves would then easily stay on ADOS their whole career and then get a Regular retirement. The 1095 rule was born--1095 was supposed to be tied to a position, but having no mechanism for tracking this, they tied it to the person, the added benefit being that they could deny a regular retirement to individuals (for the most part). Navy & Army are much more aggressive than AF when it comes to a concerted effort to deny. 2. AFRES has been talking for YEARS about reforming basic functions such as UTAPS and AROWS, yet all they have are excuses as to why they cannot. 3. DOD whined about medical readiness in the reserve. Congress responded with making Tricare and Tricare Dental available to reservists. DOD opposed this. 4. AFRES's record-keeping system for reserve points was basically non-existent. The effect was that reservists would apply for retirement and then have to prove their service. If unable, AFRES would deny the retirement. Congress responded with a band-aid fix of mandating PCARS and issuance of the 20-yr letter which could not be revoked. AFRES opposed this idea and watered it down to include an out for themselves: "the number of years of creditable service and retirement points upon which retired pay is computed may be adjusted to correct any error." Ergo, the onus is ultimately still on the reservist, potentially, to prove his service. 5. When I first entered the SELRES I asked many benefit questions to the finance/personnelists both at my group and ARPC. I received virtually no information and the information I did receive was littered with errors/outright wrong. I concluded that these people didn't know and didn't care because they were full-timers (whether ART or AGR or attempting a Regular retirement) and it didn't affect them. It became quite obvious to me that I would need to find answers on my own starting with title 10 and go from there because the AFIs themselves are littered with errors. 6. BLAB: RegAF runs the show, does not care about the ARC, and any attempts at reform point to the desire of RegAF and ARC Full-timers to just do away with the entire concept of a part-time force because it's pesky to them. This explains the constant drum beat of "we're an operational reserve." It also explains the constant push to get rid of IRR participation (achieved by AFRES except for ALO and CAP-RAP--but they're working on it), points for correspondence courses (achieved by the Army), and the absolute disaster that the IMA program is currently devolving into, sped along by the so-called "IMA Strategic Review Team." Basically the AF wants people on active duty or not on active duty, but can't seem to get there because of their desire to deny benefits in the name of saving money.

4Fans: That’s good. The other 2 most important documents will be your 20-yr letter and your PCARS printout. Heard about an old boy went to Army HRC to get his retired pay started. HRC says they have no record of him at all. He had his 20 yr letter, tho, so HRC knew they had to pay him something. But with no record of how many points he had earned, they gave him 50 pts per yr for 20 yrs. That’s brutal. My 20 yr letter has my points as of my 20th yr printed on it, so may not be a factor for you, but I’d get PCARS printout anyway, especially with their screwing around with all the software.

Hindsight2020: Army’s press release is incorrect, tho. 10 USC 1370A does say the same as 1370, meaning reserve and regular are both 3 yrs TIG now.

I hope your transfer date is end of May. ARPC has been telling people incorrectly they can “retire on a partial year.” This is a gross misunderstanding of the partial year concept. A good year is 50 pts AND 365/366 days in a participating status. If you already had 20 good years yeah sure you can retire anytime you want. But if you’re in your 20th year it has to be at least 20 whole years. Partial years come into play if one has a break in service. In that case 2 partial years (presumably 1 on the front end and 1 on the back end) can combine to make 1 good year. Other than that situation, partial years past 20 good yrs only give you pro-rata membership points, but don’t have any further meaning.

Common misconception. You’ll be O-4 in Retired Reserve. Your high-36 will be calculated from the O-4 level for the 36 months pay charts preceding age 60 or your reduced retired pay age. This will be at the highest longevity (so topping out the O-4 payscale. This a key difference between regular and reserve retirement systems and why it is highly advisable for reservists to get TIG to hold their rank.

Did he know prior? Was he regular AF?