[C-27J Spartan Training Info]

Two points.

1. If a Soldier or Marine needs the ammo and gear, lets get it to them.

2. When (not if) we tacon the C-27J to an Army unit, if that Army O-6 is being unrealistic, it is our job to show them what is possible/practical.

In the end, those C-27Js will fly their asses off and those Army dudes will be thankful for it. I just wish we could expand the realm of this concept to Marine units as well. //sarcasm on// Oh wait, if a Marine wants supplies, he would have joined the Army //sarcasm off//.

Out

Simple and to the point.

I agree totally

[C-27J Spartan Training Info]

It's not if the AF wants the mission, if directed and in this case by the Sec Def, it best be done. He fired the last CoS AF for not carrying out his directives. It really pisses me off, when the Army always complaining about AF support as if the AF doesn't give a damn about the ground commander's mission. Army aviators hear the same crap from the non rated Army officers in mission support. Damn aviators, just can't get the job done. I bet there wasn't one Army aviation general officer that agreed with the C-27J transfer. But, the Army CoS did. Must be non rated.

Believe me, it was absolutely necessary for the Army Air Force to separate from the Army in 1947. You talk about stringent AF regs, why do you think they came about? Back in the 30-40s the Army lost hundreds if not thousands of aircrew members due to poor equipment/funding/training in PEACE TIME. The Army ground commanders did not have a clue on the dangers of aviation or their use. If you're Infantry and tired lay down. Tired in an aircraft, your life's in jeopardy. USAF regs are written in blood to save lives and assets including Army lives.

Meeting the AF standards are quite easy. If you're an Army RLO aviator, a interservice transfer is possible if the fixed wing assets are transferred. For the Warrant Officer aviators, they must have a 4 yr degree without exception and approx 40% of the WO do not. And, the WO must attend AF OTS before the age of 35 to earn their commission. If the WO aviators are unable to meet these standards, they will not have the option in transferring. If the Army aviators do not wish to transfer in the numbers needed, the AF will just plus up on SUPT. Don't think this transfer will ever happen but it would open up more pilot seats for our 2nd Lts.

Regarding AF CSAR mission, that may be on the chopping block based on funding not available for new airframes.

Pretty arrogant.

The military doesn't exist to make sure you get the job you want. It's to deter wars if possible and win wars if necessary. Everything else you get above that is gravy.

I think the army needs the C-27 and will probably get some down the road. Nothing is more responsive to your needs than organic assets. It's that simple. At the same time I'm pretty sure some in the different services will want to protect their "turf". No doubt deals are struck at echelons above reality. Plain disgusting.

We've ALL come a long way since the 30s and 40s. But that was WW2. That argument is not even relevant now. There have been exhausted soldiers who got too close to the edge of a crappy dirt road in Iraq who drove off into a canal and 4 guys drowned.

Tired will always be a killer.

I suggest that anybody in the military who thinks he's getting a raw deal should tell that to the E-4 at Walter Reed trying to learn to walk again.

Feel free to transfer those extra 2LTs to the Infantry. The Army can always use the extra help.

[AF Light Air Support Aircraft]

I think an A-10 type addition would a good idea. Why did we get that jet in the first place? Because some third world gomers one generation from the stone age were puncing holes in small prop planes, high speed jets, and helos and knocking them out of the sky with low tech weapons while the troops on the ground needed better CAS. No need to reinvent the wheel or, worse, ignore history and make the same mistake.

I agree the A-10 is one helluva platform but as was mentioned the cost is out of sight for a lot of countries. For that matter we don't have infinite funding either. Props are just going to be less expensive. I also know that there are 1000 reasons turbo-props have advantages over pistons too. The biggest vulnerabilty to the props as I see it are heat-seeking MANPADS. To beat/mitigate that threat we need to have a better designed exhaust system. Pistons don't put out the heat turbines do. Maybe that't the way to go from a powerplant perspective high altitude performance not withstanding. We lost 2 Apaches and a civilian MI-8 to those Manpads in my AO back when. Either way until the IR signature is supressed/addressed low and slow is a really dangerous place to be. Of course it still out of range of most IEDS.

[Hellfires from Cessna's]

I thought I saw a picture of a special mission Caravan that fired a minigun out the cargo door.

Wouldn't think that would be too much of a stretch. Matter of fact I think a lot of light aircraft too small for the Hellfire could use lateral firing automatic weapons in the COIN fight.

The AC-130 model is effective at concentrating fire on a particular area

[Hellfires from Cessna's]

I actually met a guy over there in 2008 who was training Iraqis on the Caravan. Pretty sweet deal. Wish I could have done it.

I love the Hellfire. I don't think there's many platforms you can't put it on.

If the bad guys hear a platform overhead i.e. UAVs, Apachies, Caravans etc, that the bad guys know can fire or at least target for a Hellfire they tend to spend less time attacking our forces and more time looking for cover. Loiter time is a BIG help for those of us on the ground.

[Classic Thread - Security Forces (SFS) Tales]

Okay we've all had less than pleasant encounters with SF stateside but I had the privilege of serving with them in Baghdad and yes it was a privilege.

More than one owes their life to the SF after an attack where they rendered life saving first aid. That's just for starters.

I think it's a reflection of stateside leadership whith some of the more questionable encounters in the states.

I also saw them in a law enforcement capacity in Iraq. Sometime it was a thankless job given some of the stupidity I saw with soldiers, airmen, marines, sailors (with a few O-6s and GOs thrown in) and civilians.

For you young UPT types try to keep that in mind as you go through your career.