tac airlifter

Don't you find that logic inconsistant? It's ok to tackle a guy in the store but you'll get fired if you chase him out the door? Employees have the potential to be hurt over merchandise inside and outside. Also, in their off time at another store? Seems like Sprint is reaching for authority it shouldn't have. These guys are private citizens and shouldn't be beholden to corporate policy when they aren't on the clock. Something is fundamentally broken with any system that rewards and encourages people to be pussies and punishes them when they take a risk to help others.

It's after the 12th. Any idea what the final outcome was?

Great question, as someone who has led OST trainers to about 100 different fields (in addition to operational missions) I feel I can provide a good answer. First let me say that I totally understand why the hardship of going many places seems like a non-issue to those who haven't done it. But once you start dealing with every variable you may have on a single flight the amount of knowledge and skills to master becomes apparent. What are the variables? In no particular order: climb gradient, obstacles (including low close in that need to be visually identified) runway markings (including asphalt/pavement combo's producing visual illusions), and as for visual illusions there's also slope and even runways that turn a little (although admittedly I've only seen this on dirt strips), a vast array of different approach types and markings (more on this later) and then PA, weather anomalies, weight and balance variations (PCN) local restrictions (in GIANT report) and localisms like traffic (trust me, locals in the backwoods of Utah can get weird). If this doesn't sound like any big deal, let me tell you that every single pilot who I instructed that cross flowed from another platform has at some point become completely overwhelmed by the mass of variables one must account for and master to do the air land mission successfully. Spoo, you mentioned you've never flown a full PT for real. Well, it's common for airlift dudes to need that skill on short notice. First Jeppsen approach I'd ever seen was a NDB full PT into Jordan without radar and down to min's (NDB being the only approach available). Mission can't stop or slow so the pilot can take their time examining the approach; you get handed a pile of shit you weren't expecting and have to be good enough to make it work right now. Conceptually, that's true for every type of mission (I don't fly airlift anymore, so I have another perspective now) but I really think it's under appreciated by people outside airlift. Also, let's talk about PA. Landing a heavyweight aircraft at sea level and 8000' is very different and when time is critical, one must be prepared to quickly and accurately examine TOLD and account for complexities. I've done both (sea level and 8k' PA) in training and operationally on the same mission. I did a lot of OST's in the -130 world and pushed us hard because when the time comes downrange I want myself and my students to perform like rock stars no questions asked no matter what weird shit is thrown our way. A lot of guys don't appreciate the many wind and cloud variables that a pilot can run afoul of until they've done a lot of LL's in the mountains. I don't want someone f'n up a mission into Salerno when they can practice at Gunnison. I mentioned visual illusions; they really can get pretty bad. When your mind is concentrating on keeping track of a lot of stuff, including 8 different ICAO approaches and controllers who may or may not be proficient in English, suddenly guys find themselves on final and it doesn't look like what they expect so they carry some power and land a little long. Except this runway is only 5000' so they're screwed. I know, I know, guys reading this will laugh at how dumb air lifters can be. All I can say is that good pilots have burned the brakes and the plane trying to make the impossible work because they were saturated with difficulties of the "new." Think of all the fighters that have crashed into each other doing complex air-to-air. Dudes are focused and easy things become hard, it happens to us all. That's why we practice. As for instrument procedures and what makes one harder than the other; man, just pull out a FLIP and ask yourself if you can fly 5 random approaches with no prep time, full PT and no radar in mountainous terrain to short fields at minimums with all the additional complexities of crew and mission and timeline on top of it (not to mention an enemy that knows airlift is a soft target); and in the -130 you've got about a 10% chance you'll be IFE at the same time for one reason or another. If you can do it no sweat, then I applaud you. But from experience I think it's a difficult task for any aviator to handle and only guys who practice and train to a high standard do it well. It's interesting for me now in a squadron with fighter and bomber and airlift and tanker guys. The truth is none of us are better than the others as a community, and each of our (old) missions have hard things that outsiders don't understand to be hard. The discriminator between good pilots and bad ones is not what they tracked out of UPT, the discriminator is who really tries hard to be good and works tirelessly to be good and holds themselves to a high personal standard. Airlift guys practice OST's at different sites because it really is a hard skill to go into vastly different circumstances multiple times in a single mission. You can only think so fast and process so much at a given moment; sometimes I'd do missions where I was at cruise at 20,000' for 3 hours and had time. Mostly I'd hit 7k' on climb out and immediatly be in the descent for some random spot with half the runway closed, a sandstorm blowing in, radios being jammed, something leaking out of the #2 and dudes barfing in the back. Hope this answers the questions, cheers to all.

Wow dude, there are so many things wrong with your point of view. For starters, it is possible to live on a beach and work for AFSOC. Secondly, unlike when the fighters were there and it was merely one of many locations to PCS to, AFSOC only has two bases and the missions are split. It's very possible for someone to spend their whole career at Cannon and some poeple also have kids/schools/wives/jobs to worry about in addition to the mission. I appreciate your zeal for getting it done, but people stuck there have a right to gripe. It was a bad choice for AFSOC and directly contributes to a high level of suck many spouses and kids have to endure on top of their husband being gone half the year serving our nation. All so a corrupt town can get some government cheese.

Taking away his retirement pay is extreme, But I think people want some consistancy in how the AF handles DUIs. When good guys can have everything taken away but a general gets to retire at general pay it seems unfair. Maybe if there were some standardization in how these are punished we wouldn't see an outcry like this claiming for his balls in a shoebox.

If you love beautiful scenery, beautiful weather, delicious wine and strong crosswinds, Lajes is the place for you.

We'll agree to disagree here. With better technology you don't need 10 years of experience to interpolate the image, you just look at it. This is like people saying the J or -17 needs an FE. Technology compensates for that crew position and in the case of an MX-15 or 20, the image speaks for itself and you don't need an "expert" to determine what it is.

Indonesian cops don't want you if you've got an unnaturally large dong. Personally, I wouldn't put leaves from something called the "itchy tree" anywhere on me, much less that.

MX-20D with ELAP. Wow. Too heavy for me but I'm very impressed.

Why shouldn't ADDS be approved? 202v3 says aircrew "should" use the OWS (not shall). That said, I'm not an expert since my MAJCOM supp says: 2.3.1.2. (AFSOC) When local military weather services are unavailable, crew may contact their home station or use any FAA approved weather system or service IAW with 2.3.1.2.5. (Added) So anything the FAA says is ok, is ok. Have you looked at your MAJCOM supp?

Thanks for the answer. I figured you guys (civ airliner) would have to report an RA, we just have a different mind set about it. VMC if I see the traffic, I'm not necessarily following the RA; IMC is a different situation, obviously. But what makes you think these guys would be squawking 1200 at FL 290? I thought everyone in class A was IFR.

Exactly, and that's the standard VFR departure.

Why is this even news? I get a TA on almost every flight. Even an RA isn't worth reporting. Do airliners have to report this stuff?

Surefire C3 Centurion. It's the brightest light for its size (6 inches) I ever seen.

What is that coming out of the -16? I'm ignorant of AR.

Welcome to the forum, and nice pictures; however, you didn't get "shwacked" and this isn't someone’s pet issue. You failed to read the giant thread title that says "READ THIS FIRST." No big deal and I think you'll appreciate how they compile and organize threads here in a year or so when you are searching for a specific picture; you won't have to sift through pages of irrelevant data. Again, welcome to the forum.

Zing! Well played.

True but many of those run concurrent with your UPT ADSC; which I know you know. Just pointing out to the guy who asked the question that you aren't adding aditional time to the 10 years by doing PME, IP school or your masters or whatever, provided the ADSC's incurred by those items expire prior to the expiration of the 10 year ADSC.

Exactly. I still can't believe I get paid to fly cool missions and I don't have any civilian friends who enjoy their job this much (including pilots). Yes there is queep and a masters and PME, etc. But really the only reason I bitch about that stuff is because it takes away from time I could be flying. I fucking love this. That F-bomb is just for you Kuma.

Wow, well played!

Who gives a fuck about pilot training ranking? Sometimes it's indicative of further performance, often not. Yea I know some exceptions too, but the fact is most dudes near the top of UPT want -38's. The mistake is in thinking that because you're near the top of a UPT class there is any correlation to being the best operational pilot. UPT judges how fast you learn a concept, not how well you internalize the concept. At the end of UPT, even the top guy starts over as the worst pilot at his Ops squadron. At that point, I know a larger amount of tier 1 UPT performers who burned out and settled in as another mediocre pilot than guys who went on to prove they really were awesome pilots. Only two of the best pilots at any of the operational squadrons I've been in were UPT superstars. And what does any of this have to do with the tanker vs. fighter bitch fest I was enjoying?

What you practice in exercises and what you actually deploy to do are not necessarily the same. Do you know anyone in your community currently doing CAS operationally? Anyone that's done it in the last 5 years? I'm not being a smart ass, but none of the IP's flying -52's that I know are doing any of this anymore much to their disappointment; they just do show of force stuff. Glad you are at least practicing taking 9-lines, you guys did great work in early OEF.

By skill set I mean being tasked to do the same mission now. My understanding is that -52's are no longer qualified to drop ordnance via the 9-line for CAS due to a renewed focus on the nuclear mission. Consequently, if 9-11 were to happen again tomorrow and the nation needed to support ground teams to a geographically isolated location with assets that can hold for long durations... could we do it? I know there are assets I haven't worked with but I also know the -52's DID do this mission when called upon, did it well enough to earn kudos from the teams, but are currently not doing it with no plans to practice in the future. If I'm wrong and CAS support is a skill that -52 crews maintain, then this discussion is moot and I'll stand corrected. Sure, everyone should always be prepared to put as much into the fight as possible. That is the point of the thread-- should aircraft not packing heat start doing so? I don't know what is best, I just think we're at a point where in the mind of the AF adding one capability takes away from another. Add CAS to -52's take away nuke readiness (big blue's opinion, not mine), add CAS to the W (DS) take away LL AD, etc. So I'm curious with your experience, do you think more assets that could be CAS players (not dedicated experts like you guys, just able to employ iron) would help or get in the way? I'm sure there would be examples of both, but on the whole, do you think we need more guys able to orbit and drop?

That's an interesting insight, and it is sad to see lessons learned and forgotten time and again. I realize what they (B-52's) did was not equivalent to a dynamic type 2 or 3 CAS with TIC, but from the ground perspective all the dudes I know were very glad to have the overhead despite the limitations. That being said, do you think the -52's should have kept that skill set or do you think that was just extraordinary measures for extraordinary circumstances?