tac airlifter
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Posts posted by tac airlifter
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If my assessment is prematures, then why isn't the article's? I don;t understand the acceptance of one hypothesis while another is ignored. You claim there is all this "evidence" to support the theory that it was a planned terrorist attack supported by AQ or some other organization, where is it? I think it is bandwagoning being driven by a sensationalized media.
And for the record I am not saying it was so much the actions of a lone individual as it doesn't appear to be an orchestrated terrorist attack. You don't prove a hypothesis, you disprove it!
The article isn't premature because it doesn't make an assesment. First line of my post: "it doesn't claim to have the conclusion." I am also not making a final judgment. Rememeber this "I'm in wait and see mode for a final understanding of the entire event."
But you answered my question, you think the peopel calling this terrorism are the media just sensationalizing it. Thats fair and the media has certainly proved itself overzealous to paint a picture without facts (example, looks like Munnely didn't may not have even hit Hasan, but the media certainly jumped right into calling her a hero). My point was the Casey came out immediately after the attack without any facts known and said basically, this isn't terrorism and we shouldn't let diversity suffer. I think he was foolish to do that, because it drove the image of Army leadership trying to cover up someone who was a muslim radical and anti-american. Now it looks like his coworkers knew he was a jihadist but they were to afraid of being labeled discriminatory. All I'm saying is that just because this dudes lawyer says he'll plead not guilty, does not prove this wasn't terrorism.
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Not really, notice the question mark after the label and the byline...
Did you read the article? It doesn't claim to have the conclusion, but it comes down pretty hard on the side of this being a terrorist event, and interestingly, it calls out the Army leadership for being so hasty to call this the actions of a lone deranged indivudual. From pg 27 "The massacre at ft hood was, depending on whom you believed, yet another horrific workplace shooting by a deranged nutcase who suddently snapped, or it was an intimate act of war, a plot that can't be foiled because it is hatched inside a fanatics head and leaves no trail until it is left in blood. In their first response, officials betrayed an eagerness to to assume it was the first; the more we learn, the more we have cause to fear it was the second" Granted that is the begining of the article but that is the consistant theme.
So I say again, the rush to judgement based on incomplete evidence just screams "agenda!" Your assesment is premature, and if you were tuned in to the national dialouge and actually reading articles you cite, you'll see how bad this looks to quickly jump on the "lone gunman" train when so much evidence is mounthing to couter that. Why don't we wait and see? I don't understand the eagerness to claim this wasn't terrorism without even close to all the facts.
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If you're a young guy who is trying to figure out what is right and what is wrong, then grab an IP that you like and respect and ask him personally to give you some mentorship on the subject.
Solid advice.
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However, since Hassan will be tried under the UCMJ and not civil law, it will be interesting to see how this plea (if used) plays out.
Regardless, it does not appear that Hassan was motivated by extreme/radical religious beliefs as some have claimed, given the consideration of this plea; but all will be clearer as he goes before the court martial board...and he explains himself.
Either way, I believe it is more important that he pays for the crimes he been charged with (don't forget he's still innocent until proven guilty), and there is a better chance of that through pursing justice via what will be a pretty much cut-and-dry criminal approach than through convoluted allegations of a planned terrorist act.
If the gov doesn't fully investigate the very real possibility that an extremist Muslim was operating in accordance with an organization of extremist Muslims to commit this attack, it will become a conspiracy that will never die. 20 years from now families will be doing specials on CNN about "why did the gov come out so fast denying this could have been a terrorist attack before we even knew who shot who (remember the initial reports about some casualties being from friendly fire?)?"
I cannot understand the reasoning behind the premature bid to label this either terrorism or the act of a lone crazy gunman. Why don't we all just wait to see what the investigation uncovers and proceed from there? The rush to assumptions based on incomplete evidence just screams "agenda!" More devastating than the loss of lives would be the loss of credibility in the governments ability to be straight with people about what happened and why. So I hope you don't take this the wrong way M2, but I really think your assessment is premature and unhelpful to the national dialogue.
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The press is reporting that Hassan might plead not guilty by reason of insanity. That kinda blows the whole theory behind it being a planned terrorist act right out of the water now, doesn't it?
I think what we are seeing is the real truth behind this attack…that it was the actions of a deranged individual, and not some planned terrorist operation...
I think your assesment is premature. Perhaps we should wait and see exactly what he does and says instead of relying on what little information his lawyers allow out. Still a lot of rumors about funds transfers to Pakistan and all manner of suspicious contacts; not saying any of it is true but this whole affair has been prematurly judged from the initial report. I'm in wait and see mode for a final undestanding of the entire event.
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By this time you've either committed yourself to this task and are fighting in the primary or you have called it quits. Either way, I'd love an update. PM me if you don't feel like making it public.
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Or the worst. His stream of consciousness writing made think of a bad R&R for him in Hong Kong and not a real life accounting of "there I was."
But it's on the best seller list and has been for some time, so what do I know?
I'm not a fan of the writing style (or lack thereof) either, however, if 1/3 of what he says actually happened--- wow. And that sortie at the end? I stayed up all night reading it, I literally couldn't stop myself and wait for another time to finish.
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In Flying Through Midnight, the author claims to have downed a NVA chopper with chains shoved out the door of a C-123.
Possibly the greatest aviation book ever written.
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This thread is long overdue for a reality check. Guys keep asking where the LEADERS are, they're all over this board. We have people of all ranks here who come on and bitch, and then happily go to work the next day with their reflective belt in hand because we all know that nobody's going to do or say anything about it. There's no more Oldses or Boyds or Mitchells out there, or in here. It's amazing the cognitive dissonance that goes on with guys who will risk life and limb going into hostile fire to kill the enemy, but are too afraid to speak up about something that so clearly bothers them. Then again, a war hero flag waving patriot is socially acceptable to the military community. Someone who questions authority or doesn't play the game isn't.
Reflective belts will continue on because it's easier to stay quiet and be a good little air-space-cyberspace warrior who follows the rules, plays the game, and climbs the ladder. Hell, even I admit that I take the path of least resistance, but then again I'm not the one here trying to pass the leadership buck to others.
You ought to rethink your post. If an 0-7 installation Commander issues an order that I think is stupid, I still have an obligation to obey. And I wouldn't tolerate open insubordiation or mutany or whatever it is you are calling for with the "do anything about it" line. I can't do anything about it except bring it up to my boss, which happens ALL the time. Ergo, people come here to bitch about this inane policy because what else can we do without going to jail? The fact is, if the boss orders me to dress like a clown I still have to do it. I lead in my capacity, who are you to say I (we) don't?
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I will concede that the majority of terrorist acts being committed in the last two decades have been committed by Muslims, but again I think that has entirely everything to do with their culture and their extremist views of Islam and not the actual religion itself.
Thats a good point, and the logical follow up question is: How much of their culture is influenced by their religion?
Any verse from just about any religious text can be quoted in isolation and misunderstood or misrepresented. So instead look at the great men (or women) of a particular faith to get an idea of what it teaches. When you contrast Mohammed with Jesus any attempt to equate the two faiths rapidly fails. They were opposites.
Bottom line, if this attack originated from his religious beliefs then I think you have to call it terrorism. But if this act originated from the fact that he was an crazy asshole, it's hard to lable that terrorism. Until we interview him and know for sure what his intent was, I think in this climate today it is reasonable to lable this as terrorism since he had to know the act and his faith would be linked.
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Anyways, although I'm a long-time USAF pilot now, I still try hard to remember why I fly C-130s...Herks exist in the USAF inventory for the benefit of the Army and Marines.
You pretty much nailed it. The C-27 is a great plane but the AF will neuter it so much; why even have capabilities without the balls to use them? And Cubdriver, not sure where you fly hercs but unless things have done a 180 in the last 8 months he shacked it. Just because we fly into a dirt LZ in OEF or HOA every so often or airdrop some leaflets or CDS twice a month does NOT mean we are doing the extent of what we can do. We don't go to half the places we could in OIF and a larger percentage in OEF. If you can find a listing of places other MAJCOMs or nations or agencies use your head would explode with how much big blue isn't doing to help the fight. Slick hercs train to a very high level, but the leadership lacks the fortitude to employ these assets to the extent of their capabilities. What Huey said is what I saw in the 130 on my deployments to both theaters multiple times over several years; and thats why I left the 130 and will never go back. I'm embarassed at how little the AF HHQ is willing to support the army, and unless the C27 goes AFSOC or is chopped directly to the army (as Pony mentioned here, which I didn't know) it will be just another thing we CAN do but DON'T.
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Recieved the following email from a friend in the Army. I myself do not know the JAG who wrote this, but the third party does and I consider him 100% reliable. Text follows:
Subject: What happened
Since I don't know when I'll sleep (it's 4 am now) I'll write what happened (the abbreviated version.....the long one is already part of the investigation with more to come). I'll not write about any part of the investigation that I've learned about since (as a witness I know more than I should since inevitably my JAG brothers and sisters are deeply involved in the investigation). Don't assume that most of the current media accounts are very accurate. They're not. They'll improve with time. Only those of us who were there really know what went down. But as they collate our statements they'll get it right.
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> I did my SRP last week (Soldier Readiness Processing) but you're supposed to come back a week later to have them look at the smallpox vaccination site (it's this big itchy growth on your shoulder). I am probably alive because I pulled a ---------- and entered the wrong building first (the main SRP building). The Medical SRP building is off to the side. Realizing my mistake I left the main building and walked down the sidewalk to the medical SRP building.
As I'm walking up to it the gunshots start. Slow and methodical. But continuous. Two ambulatory wounded came out. Then two soldiers dragging a third who was covered in blood. Hearing the shots but not seeing the shooter, along with a couple other soldiers I stood in the street and yelled at everyone who came running that it was clear but to "RUN!". I kept motioning people fast. about 6-10 minutes later (the shooting continuous), two cops ran up. one male, one female. we pointed in the direction of the shots. they headed that way (the medical SRP building was about 50 meters away). then a lot more gunfire. a couple minutes later a balding man in ACU's came around the building carrying a pistol and holding it tactically. He started shooting at us and we all dived back to the cars behind us. I don't think he hit the couple other guys who were there. I did see the bullet holes later in the cars. First I went behind a tire and then looked under the body of the car. I've been trained how to respond to gunfire...but with my own weapon. To have no weapon I don't know how to explain what that felt like. I hadn't run away and stayed because I had thought about the consequences or anything like that. I wasn't thinking anything through. Please understand, there was no intention. I was just staying there because I didn't think about running. It never occurred to me that he might shoot me. Until he started shooting in my direction and I realized I was unarmed.
Then the female cop comes around the corner. He shoots her. (according to the news accounts she got a round into him. I believe it, I just didn't see it. he didn't go down.) She goes down. He starts reloading. He's fiddling with his mags. Weirdly he hasn't dropped the one that was in his weapon. He's holding the fresh one and the old one (you do that on the range when time is not of the essence but in combat you would just let the old mag go). I see the male cop around the left corner of the building. (I'm about 15-20 meters from the shooter.) I yell at the cop, "He's reloading, he's reloading. Shoot him! Shoot him!) You have to understand, everything was quiet at this point. The cop appears to hear me and comes around the corner and shoots the shooter.
He goes down. The cop kicks his weapon further away. I sprint up to the downed female cop. Another captain (I think he was with me behind the cars) comes up as well. She's bleeding profusely out of her thigh. We take our belts off and tourniquet her just like we've been trained (I hope we did it right...we didn't have any CLS (combat lifesaver) bags with their awesome tourniquets on us, so we worked with what we had).
Meanwhile, in the most bizarre moment of the day, a photographer was standing over us taking pictures. I suppose I'll be seeing those tomorrow. Then a soldier came up and identified himself as a medic. I then realized her weapon was lying there unsecured (and on "fire"). I stood over it and when I saw a cop yelled for him to come over and secure her weapon (I would have done so but I was worried someone would mistake me for a bad guy). I then went over to the shooter. He was unconscious. A Lt Colonel was there and had secured his primary weapon for the time being. He also had a revolver.
I couldn't believe he was one of ours. I didn't want to believe it. Then I saw his name and rank and realized this wasn't just some specialist with mental issues. At this point there was a guy there from CID and I asked him if he knew he was the shooter and had him secured. He said he did. I then went over the slaughter house...the medical SRP building. No human should ever have to see what that looked like, and I won't tell you. Just believe me. Please, there was nothing to be done there. Someone then said there was someone critically wounded around the corner. I ran around (while seeing this floor to ceiling window that someone had jumped through movie style) and saw a large African-American soldier lying on his back with two or three soldiers attending. I ran up and identified two entrance wounds on the right side of his stomach, one exit wound on the left side and one head wound. He was not bleeding externally from the stomach wounds (though almost certainly internally) but was bleeding from the head wound.
A soldier was using a shirt to try and stop the head bleeding. He was conscious so I began talking to him to keep him so. He was 42, from North Carolina, he was named something Jr., his son was named something III and he had a daughter as well. His children lived with him. He was divorced. I told him the blubber on his stomach saved his life. He smiled. A young soldier in civvies showed up and identified himself as a combat medic. We debated whether to put him on the back of a pickup truck. A doctor (well, an audiologist) showed up and said you can't move him, he has a head wound. We finally sat tight. I went back to the slaughterhouse. They weren't letting anyone in there not even medics.
Finally, after about 45 minutes had elapsed some cops showed up in tactical vests. Someone said the TBI building was unsecured. They headed into there. All of a sudden a couple more shots were fired. People shouted there was a second shooter. A half hour later the SWAT showed up. There was no second shooter, that had been an impetuous cop apparently. But that confused things for a while. Meanwhile, I went back to the shooter. The female cop had been taken away,and a medic was pumping plasma into the shooter. I'm not proud of this but I went up to her and said "this is the shooter, is there anyone else who needs attention...do them first". She indicated everyone else living was attended to. I still hadn't seen any EMTs or ambulances. I had so much blood on me that people kept asking me if I was ok. But that was all other people's blood. Eventually, (an hour and a half to two hours after the shootings) they started landing choppers. They took out the big African American guy and the shooter. I guess the ambulatory wounded were all at the SRP building. Everyone else in my area was dead.
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> I suppose the emergency responders were told there were multiple shooters. I heard that was the delay with the choppers (they were all civilian helicopters). They needed a secure LZ, but other than the initial cops who did everything right, I didnt' see a lot of them for a while. I did see many a soldier rush out to help their fellows/sisters. There was one female soldier, I dont' know her name or rank but I would recognize her anywhere who was everywhere helping people. A couple people, mainly civilians, were hysterical, but only a couple. One civilian freaked out when I tried to comfort her when she saw my uniform. I guess she had seen the shooter up close. A lot of soldiers were rushing out to help even when we thought there was another gunman out there. This Army is not broken no matter what the pundits say. Not the Army I saw. And then they kept me for a long time to come. oh, and perhaps the most surreal thing, at 1500 (the end of the workday on Thursdays) when the bugle sounded we all came to attention and saluted the flag. in the middle of it all.
this is what I saw. it can't have been real. but this is my small corner of what happened.
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I was an ROTC DG and it never made it onto my SURF. Guess what? I don't care enough to get the record fixed. Good on you guys for getting DG in any program, but if you think anyone cares once your ceremony is over you are wrong. Consistant strats at home and deployed plus a few real awards and your PRF will be fine. I'm not discouraging anyone with the free time not to fix their record, just illustrating that it really doesn't matter.
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Thought this was pretty nuts man, these girls are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvEobeNfGcc.
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Please take a minute and try to set them on the path to enlightenment.
Sorry, I can't argue with idiots. Some of the comments on there are so ignorant. People who have never deployed or left the service 15 years ago just have no idea how bad things really are and think we're just "complainers." Can't argue with stupid, anyone who tries to justify the level of absurdity the AF is currently engaged in is just not worth my time. Good on you for fighting the good fight.
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If some civic minded SNCO decides he is going to point out an egregious infraction of the an AFI or local policy, I identify my self as an officer and point them to AFI 34-1201 Chapter 8.2 and excuse my self from the conversation ( I carry a copy of that paragraph with me just in case...im not kidding). I have only had to do it once and I never heard a word from that SNCO again.
Please share, I'm not familiar with that.
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I take the test tomorrow. I also am using Shep air; waiting for you initial guys to take the test and give feedback trimmed the potential question database from 1500+ 2 weeks ago to just over 500 questions now. So thank you to the guys who took it early and gave them feedback!
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As soon as you start moving around you'll realize how big the world is, and what a wide variety of hot women reside in it. There is no one woman for everyone. Dump this selfish drama chick and her mom, go have a great life flying planes and meet way hotter and more understanding women. Or continue to be a bitch and save your IPs the trouble of telling you to leave.
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Agreed, and understood, but lots of advice here is better served at that level. That doesn't mean we shouldn't say it anyway.
That is the truth. Thread drift: I was thinking something similar while I read the "advice for LTs" thread and noticed most of it focused on getting useless PME done, doing your masters etc. All true for getting promoted, but how sad when a new LT struggling to land on centerline walks into the flight/CC office and asks about SOS in-res.
There seems to be an assumption amoung GOs that we are all equally good at flying and therefore the best way to judge someone is by the amount of additional shit they pile onto their SURF. Of course this diminishes the huge effort it takes to stay sharp and composed on every flight, but it's always easier to look good than to really be good.
Back on topic, the day a general uses the SOF truths to guide his decision making process is the day their existance will matter at all. Good on those AFSOC units that live by them; some of us are not afforded that luxury.
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Holy shit fellas, you are defining SNAP for all to publicly see. Take off your panties, this board is not all about giving advice to everyone and cuddling with each other. Some of us (yourselves included) like to bitch about things. In fact, I would argue that over 50% of the posts on any given discussion thread (complete guess) are related to griping and complaining, this particular one included. I am not the one getting personal, you are. I am simply calling it like I see it.
For the record, I am giving advice: Don't take on the CAS and LL mission at the same time or you'll likely kill yourselves and others. Sage advice that was also given by others (where is the OUTRAGE!!) The fact that the 73d is the only squadron contemplating doing this kind of narrows down the beam of criticism, don't you think?
And no, we don't need a 5th truth for reasons already mentioned. I'd love to see us comply with the first four.
I hear what you're saying about using the board to bitch. I do the same thing because you have to vent somehow and my wife doesn't want to hear it. You can say what you want about the missions leadership has given, my panties won't be twisted. But, as I said, I take issue with "old guys" hemming and hawwing about all the inexperienced guys standing up new squadrons. Dude, we're doing our best here and telling us how much we suck while we're trying to write a vol 3 isn't helping. Channel your rage at someone other than new LTs or guys new to AFSOC. We want to be here. Your advice is duely noted, unfortunatly it applies to an 0-7 not an 0-3.
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Dude, you're so right. My bad. Your inexperienced squadron that has a grand total of about 15 dudes that have some sort of TF or CAS background coupled with the majority brand new dudes out of UPT and slick guys that don't have a clue WTF TF or CAS stand for are absolutely perfect for the job.
WTF is up with your attitude? There are two wars going on and dudes from slicks & UPT are trying as hard as they can to get into AFSOC so they can get some of the action before we're pulled out.... and you're busy telling new guys they don't have a clue? No shit they don't have a clue, they're new! Big fucking suprise! Maybe instead of taking the "holier than thou" approach you should take a clue from CH- that dude is always reaching out to new guys who want to learn and doesn't spend time giving everyone shit for not being as old school gangsta as him. I appreciate the experience guys like you bring to most of these discussions, but to what end are you badgering the new squadrons tasked with new missions? What do you hope to accomplish by talking down to guys who have jumped into a shitty situation and are trying to make it work? AFSOC has new squadrons with new misisons and they need so many bodies that a lot of the guys are new.
For the record, I haven't met a single straight out of UPT kid that isn't very excited to be in AFSOC. I heard stories about bitter 38 guys but have yet to meet one. These guys want to be part of the FIGHT, that matters. Skills can be taught and learned, attitude is what makes guys rise to the occasion. Why don't you either help with your experience or STFU and let the guys struggling to make it work struggle without your bullshit sarcasm.
As to the OP, the 5th truth is obvious and many in AFSOC play it loose with the first four anyway. Just leave it be.
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The problem with not giving a ticket in this scenario is that the patrolman is trusting you to replace your insurance card (rhetorical question - did you replace your insurance card?). The problem with trusting an individual to get something replaced is that 99% of the time they won't do it. If you don't issue a citation to an individual with a broken headlight, guess who you will see a week later...With a broken headlight.
Standard SF bullshit. We are professional members of the USAF, not average joe yokle civilian. If you see the same guy a week later with a broken headlight, give him a ticket then... why is that hard? And if a commissioned officer can be trusted with an aircraft and ordnance and killing bad dudes and top secret shit, he (or she) can certainly be trusted to print a new card.
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Buddy of mine is IP in Tweet, student on last ride before washing out for airsickness. Halfway through the acro in the area, IP looks over and there is a pink froth spiraling down the kid's O2 hose.(Evidently he had washed his spicy sausage dog down with a strawberry soda). He knows the guy has puked and can hear him gagging so he tells him to just drop his mask and fess up. When he drops his mask my buddy can't help but look over, and he sees that the mass of puked up sausage dog and pink soda is actually moving! He proceeds to spew all over the cockpit, far exceeding the damage done by the student. Diagnosis - pinworms - the student puked so hard they came up with everything else.
Bon Appetit.
Ok, that is a new low for baseops barf stories. I guess it's good the stud got them out. But gross dude, gross.
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Me thinks I didn't get a DP because I didn't go to SOS in res (correspondence completed in '06), and I didn't have @ least a Bachelors +.
All else is good...OPRs w/strats, sq/wg jobs, CGOQ, etc. & no skeletons.
How many masters classes do you need for the "+" to appear on your SURF? I just started my masters and won't even be halfway complete by my board next year.
Gun Talk
in Squadron Bar
Posted
I'd pass on the SOCOM 16. A barrel that short on a .308 is deafening. I couldn't enjoy shooting it at all, and if used indoors it will suck pretty bad.