FourFans

Here's a discussion that started at my work and I want to offer up for discussion. My crew was broken at base X in the desert and a C-17 was parked next to us doing some lengthy stop. Curious, the loads and I went over for a look (we'd never toured Budda before). After a look around the back, I asked the loads were the pilots were and he pointed to the cockpit. I thought this rather strange seeing they were shut down. I walked upstairs to find 3 pilots sitting with the AC blasting, just shooting the breeze. I asked them if they ever helped with the reconfigs and/or helped the loads out. One of them told me, "That's the loads job. Our place is up here." Now I understand one dude staying up front to moniter the APU. But the rest just chillin' and not helping the load (and he looked like he could have used it)? Maybe it's just me, but isn't that...um...wrong? I know that there's a big difference between strat and tac airlift, but I didn't realize it was like that. I know that if we aren't needed up front, the rest of our crew is always in the back helping out the load. And after termination, we don't leave the plane for the crew bus unless everything was cleaned up and everyone is ready to go. No one kicks back until we can all kick back. The job's not done till everyone's job is done...right? Then we can all start drinking sooner...well...not here...but you get the point. Is this "stay in the cockpit" a mode of operation common for the strat guys? If so...WTF? FourFans edited for knuckle dragger spelling [ 01. September 2006, 20:00: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

2! Stateside partying can not come close to the kind of debauchery that can be had in the Pacific. As for the Margarita machine...just fill it with Weed and ice and make Jeremiah slushy's!

"The most important thing I learned is that soldiers watch what their leaders do. You can give them classes and lecture them forever, but it is your personal example they will follow." - General Colin Powell When our leaders are doing this during time of war, what do you expect from the service they lead. ...and yes...I dusted off contrails for that quote...

If you have every said (and meant) the words "below my paygrade" in response to a request for help, you're a SNAP. Sadly, I had to witness such an occurance recently. Edit: This applies regardless of paygrade. [ 05. May 2006, 04:52: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

I know exactly who you're talking about...and I guarrantee he's done stuff like that...in a herk...

Go for a run while you're there and feel the lack of 23 percent of the oxygen you're used to.

CH: that's why they pay you the big bucks. Hydro: will do. Thanks!

Disclaimer: Like a good forum goer, I used the search function, with not good results. Anyone got any good info on what to expect at AATTC (?Advanced Airlift Tactics Training Center?) at St. Joe? Thanks. FourFans [ 30. March 2006, 09:08: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

Knock It Off, Knock It Off, Co-pilots Knock it Off FourFans Knock It Off Before this gets ugly. We'll settle this elsewhere. BTW Bender, the correct phrase is "TARD FIGHT!"

HerkaDerka: Sorry, but I'm getting testy. I understand you're obviously an expert on the MPD program seeing how you didn't go through it nor have you taught dudes in it, BUT... Really? Nice objective critiques. Good job separating the dickweeds from the program they went through. I noticed you didn't mention another group of people. You know, those 2 year CP who still can't load secures right, can't kept track of their secrets bag, and don't know about half of the stuff on Linda's laundry list above. Face it, there are good and bad CP/FP all over the place, so don't go pinning bad habits on MPD dudes just because they took a different road than you. All the instructors at the Rock made it abundantly clear that FPs still don't know jack and have to study their asses off. But that doesn't mean the non-strivers didn't hear it just like they always haven't heard it. If that's still the case, you must be with some bad dudes. All we LTs at my station take care of each other. Acronymes aside, those who know tell those who don't, and we are all smarter in the end. That how it should be. MPD dudes are just like anyone else brand new the Herk, we have lot of learning to do. Sadly, humility isn't standard issue at any school house and some people will never learn it. That's life. SO, if you want to rag on guys that don't do their job. Fine. If you want to rag on the MPD program's faults, Fine. But just because we're MPD dudes doesn't mean we're sh!tbags. Thanks for the stereotype though. [ 23. March 2006, 20:59: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

you're a brilliant man mike...don't let anyone say different. post edited. try a reattack on understanding my point. PS Do a little research on the amazing C-17 that saved the day in the Philippines. Pretty much a sad grab for press while people were suffering.

32,400 lbs. Wow. Must have been a backbreaking mission for a C-17. Good thing a C-130 can't do that. Glory Whores What airframe was it that carried half of the 200,000 lbs of humanitarian relief for the recent mud slide in the Philippines??? Was it that single C-17 that flew in once, 3 days after C-130's were already there flying multiple missions? Someone jog my memory, because I'm confounded. [ 22. March 2006, 07:39: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

Rocker: "2" Learning to fly the plane from the left seat = Good Not learning a damn thing about being a co-pilot for tac missions = Piss Poor FPs are not even taught how to LOAD secures, much less use them. Basically at initial inprocessing at the new squadron...FPs are righteously right seat retarded.

Bender: It's like trying to explain skydiving to someone who hasn't, or describing the thrill of your first solo ride to someone who's never flown, or explaining the "driving the boat" in Guam to your wife. These are things you simply cannot do. If you were there, you get it, and if you didn't go, you won't understand...so stop trying. EDIT: It's good to hear recognition is coming back...now if we could only bring meaning back to the prop'n wings... [ 12. March 2006, 09:13: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

To the wives

Sorry to say it guys, but I can't take credit for that shot. I was just looking for a puke pic and found it in this thread. Still a great picture though!

Some zoomies here might recall what the leading edge of the wing on a big yellow glider looks like after impacting a PTWOB chute deployment bag... [ 10. January 2006, 09:19: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

December 12, 2005 Fresh squad, fresh wings Special operations unit takes on intratheater mission in new plane https://www.airforcetimes.com/print.php?f=0...PER-1383079.php By Bruce Rolfsen Times staff writer A new special operations squadron is in the air and with a new plane. The 319th Special Operations Squadron at Hurlburt Field, Fla., is flying a one-of-a-kind airplane for the Air Force, the U-28A, a militarized version of the civilian Pilatus PC-12. The squadron’s primary mission is intratheater transport of small numbers of special operations troops and gear, said the unit’s commander, Lt. Col. Michael D’Argenio. The decision by the Air Force Special Operations Command and the U.S. Special Operations Command to purchase U-28As demonstrates commanders believe they need new airlift options, officials said. Some members of the Air Force special operations community have questioned using sophisticated and costly MC-130 Combat Talons to ferry special operations personnel on flights that don’t require the Talon’s low-level or night-flying capabilities. It was on just such a mission in December 2004 that an MC-130H Talon II landed on top of an unmarked runway construction site in Iraq, destroying the $85 million aircraft. When AFSOC C-130s weren’t available, special operators had to request permission to fly on conventional Air Force and Army aircraft or contractor-operated planes. With the addition of the low-cost U-28A, special operators have a unit and aircraft focused on the intratheater airlift mission, D’Argenio said. The 319th will have eight airplanes and number about 45 airmen, including 34 pilots, the commander said. The other troops will primarily be life support and administrative airmen. The squadron won’t have a maintenance staff. Contractors will handle the day-to-day upkeep of the single-engine U-28As. The unit may be flying operational missions by February, D’Argenio said. The squadron was formally reactivated Oct. 12. The unit traces it lineage to one of the original Air Force special operations units, the 319th Troop Carrier Squadron that fought in the China-Burma-India theater during World War II. At Hurlburt, the new 319th will fall under the 16th Special Operations Wing’s chain of command. As the modern squadron spins up, the initial cadre of pilots is coming to the U-28A after flying tours in other Air Force aircraft, the commander said. A majority of the pilots will have experience in special operations C-130 cockpits. Each U-28A will fly with a crew of two pilots. The pilots will get their U-28A qualification at Hurlburt, where the squadron has two leased aircraft for training. Overseas missions Most of the squadrons’ operational flights are expected to be flown overseas in support of special operations missions in nations such as Iraq and Afghanistan. For operational missions, U.S. Special Operations Command is buying six U-28As at a base cost of about $3.5 million each from the Swiss company Pilatus Aircraft Ltd. The planes will then be customized with specialized navigation gear and weather radar. Except for the avionics upgrades, the U-28A’s basic design is the same as the PC-12, according to aircraft fact sheets. Depending on how the U-28A’s interior is configured, the aircraft can carry up to nine passengers, or about 3,000 pounds of cargo if passenger seats are removed. The Pilatus plane was chosen ahead of other small, rugged transports because the interior can be pressurized and it has superior range and endurance compared to twin-engine counterparts, D’Argenio said. The Air Force gave the aircraft a “U” designation to signify its “utilitarian” mission. Other Air Force special operations transports, such as the MC-130E, fly with the “M” designation for special operations. A different version of the PC-12 is flown by the U.S. Border Patrol for reconnaissance assignments. The airplane is also popular with governments and private firms that need an aircraft able to take off and land on short or unpaved runways. The standup of the 319th comes at the same time the Army and Air Force are taking the first steps toward buying a small transport plane that would be about half the size of a C-130 Hercules. The U-28A won’t be part of that debate because the U-28A is too small and lacks a rear cargo ramp.

Where's a U-2 Pilot when you need'm? Oh yeah, I forgot, they actually have a job to do.

"The flak shell with your name on it isn't the one to fear...it's all those addressed: "To Whom It May Concern" that you need to worry about." BUCK FUTTER!

Toro, did I read that right? You didn't even get a chance to fire a single missile?! Holy shnikes! Did you even get a chance to visually aquire them? (I understand that last question might be in the "where are your troops and my I go there and count them" catigory...but you must understand...I HAD to ask!) The second question: Do you think the ROE allowed for a realistic engagement? From what I understand, sometimes they tie your hands behind your back and then act surprised when you get your a$$ handed to you so their plane can look even better. [ 04. October 2005, 15:17: Message edited by: FourFans130 ]

Two words: Incentive Ride I'm no expert, but seeing as you've got immediate family in the military and you're questioning possibility of an aviation career, you could probably get an incentive ride from somebody. I was lucky enough to get 2 rides: F-16 BFM, and MH-60 on NVGs. Those rides convinced me that while fighters are fun, I wanted to fly something low, slow, and dirty...and here I am. I never would have known that without those rides. I'm sure it would help you in you decision. I'm sure some of the more experienced guys on the forum can advise you better on your chances and how to make it happen. Good luck!

OK...I know we're trying to fight tomorrow's war and be ready for the future...and the F-22 is an awesome tool for that. But are we supposed to be ignoring the war that we're fighting today so we can fund the war we might fight tomorrow? I just notice how much the F-22 and the F-35 are doing for us in Iraq and Afghanistan and I wonder if there might be a better use for that money...such as more C-17s and maybe some C-130's that aren't broken...you know, that planes that are ACTUALLY doing things in theater. Thoughts?

HH-60: Yes, I was talking from the experience I had at Corpus as a student, but also from what the IPs told me as well. Obviously, I'm not in the Navy so I don't have a good vantage point to speak from. What really looked bad to me was the career progression. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounded like after your first tour as an aviator in the fleet, you are required to do a surface (non-flying) tour, then an instructor tour, then if you're lucky, you get to go back to the fleet to fly operationally. If that's right, it that just does seem like a good development track to get experienced aviators, IMHO. Please fill in all the blanks I left open (sts).

You haven't met many C model drivers have you...