Clark Griswold

Can't agree with you here partner, if you don't have a physical security system to stop unfettered crossing at any point an illegal immigrant chooses along a 2000 mile border, no amount of ISR or QRFs will ever be enough. There is some intel to be collected but the situation is really not complicated, massive amounts of people gather into small and medium sized groups and begin to sneak across the border, usually they make it to residential areas or sparse/difficult terrain and then blend in or break out when LE or CBP catches them and some get away. A triple layer fence, patrol roads, surveillance and lighting systems at the border and along the highways coming from the border for a few miles are necessary if we are actually interested in stopping people who we have no idea are coming into our country without our permission. Sometimes they even gather into large aggressive groups and pretty much have nothing but mayhem on the brain too... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIqUkIWWCLI This is not really a law enforcement issue anymore but a national security and sovereignty issue now but Democrats want new voters and Republicans want cheap labor so America gets a DP job.

Presidents Reagan and Bush were wrong. It is a surrender of sovereignty and explicit decay in the rule of law. No matter how well intentioned (supposedly) politicians and pundits say they are when speaking of the ultimate good intentions of most illegal immigrants (big supposition on their part) they are merely spouting sophistry on the road to being just another country where the rule of law is replaced by the rule of men, mobs or trends.

1 - by direct involvement I think we mean boots on the ground or NATO iron in the air. if we give them financial aid and they purchase what they need, SAAB, Dassault Systems, Elbit Systems etc could supply without directly involving the US. 2 - we've got some successes under our belt: US aid to the Mujahideen to eject the Soviets from Afghanistan minus the blowback from no follow thru plan following the Soviet exit, the success of Plan Columbia in thwarting the cartels from turning that country into a failed narco state, and reaching into the past look at Europe & Korea post hostilities - they took some time but they came around I'm a pilot in the ANG but have a about 10 years AD time and have been fortunate to have flown several airplanes. I am interested in geopolitics / history - if I was not doing what I am doing now I think FAO would be a pretty good gig

It Looked Like an Easy Target — But These Robbers Probably Didn’t Know a Champion MMA Fighter Worked Inside

Because it gives the West an alternative to direct involvement to prevent / reverse Russian gains & efforts in causing the break up of Ukraine. There is a risk of escalation but the risk of a Russian victory ala a successful pro-Russian separatist victory in eastern Ukraine is worse. Giving them systems and training to effectively counter the aid the Russians are giving these yokels is a good move. We have been on the sidelines in terms of supporting movements that are carrying the water for us in parts of the world based on worrying too much about escalation, our enemies like Russia, Iran, China, etc... don't have such concerns and as such we have to help out our friends or possible friends even if it might ratchet things up. It's old school but the Domino Theory was right, you have to stop the spread of your enemy before his momentum carries the day. First it was Crimea, next it will be eastern Ukraine, then it will be reoccupation of the Baltics... like it or not we live in interesting times requiring the application of smart force from all the Instruments of Power: Military, Economic, Diplomatic, Informational, etc... our enemies haven't gotten the memo from Kerry that "You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text," Kerry told the CBS program "Face the Nation." It amazes me how naive this administration is to believe that you can have a debate with authoritarian regimes, dictators and fanatical theocratic terrorist movements about human rights, peace negotiations, and rule of law based classic liberal values. These people respect force and decisive action, they interpret anything else as dithering weakness, no wonder democracy is getting it's ass kicked lately...

Why not? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Time to even things up UAF needs some EA & SEAD-DEAD http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/23/ukraine-rebels-separatists-fighter-jet-shot-down/13034005/ Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Move Counter Move Jerusalem - Israeli Engineers Test Hi-tech Tunnel Detection System Tested On Hamas Tunnel Network No doubt that it is a problem but just because a problem is difficult doesn't mean the solution is to give up.

Interior checkpoints and specifically workplace enforcement have to happen if you're serious about enforcing immigration & employment but not just against the illegal aliens - you have to arrest and prosecute the employers and smugglers. At least one politician is starting to do something: Perry sending National Guard to border http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/21/politics/perry-national-guard-border/index.html Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup and the Fembots

Don't forget the army of Terminators shoulder to shoulder across the whole border Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree on needing an executive interested in enforcing the border and laws but have to part company on needing more resources. CBP is undermanned and under resourced and especially ICE. A physical border security system is also necessary in strategic areas, basically the adjoining urban areas with the highways for the first 10 miles or so coming from the POE into the US being fenced to restrict bailouts of car loads of illegals when the CBP or HP stops a carry vehicle. Once the illegals actually make it on to US soil it is so easy to just starburst out and blend into the residential or agricultural areas that are right on or near the border making apprehension after arrival tough and never 100%, some of the group will get away. In another thread I used a highly accurate bar napkin calculation to guess that it would take 0.4% of the DoD budget to fund a sizeable NG mission to assist CBP. That is affordable and appropriate, we keep 28,500 guys in South Korea to defend the 15th largest economy in the world, we can afford 10,000 guys on our borders.

Here's yet another reason to secure the border EXCLUSIVE: RELEASED ALIEN FROM BORDER CRISIS ARRESTED FOR ALLEGED MURDER, KIDNAPPING IN TEXAS http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/07/16/Exclusive-Released-Alien-from-Border-Crisis-Arrested-For-Alleged-Murder-Kidnapping-in-Texas Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So there is no level of degrees in law-breaking? Illegally crossing into a foreign country is the equivalent to a minor civil involvement? Illegal immigration is a major civil offense but it should be a major criminal offense. Just my two cents. This may be getting to a boiling point, human freedom and humanitarian assistance are important but what the advocates of the recent surge of illegal aliens from Central America and other areas are calling for is chaos, capitulation, resignation and acceptance that other people who are not citizens of this country, who have no legal or political rights in the US are imposing themselves on us and will by their choice remain here indefinitely. That is an invasion not by arms but by using our laws and best qualities of kindness and charity against us. Some would say we did this to others when European settlers first arrived here so why do we have the right to stop them? There is no good answer to that other than that was several hundred years ago, we have evolved into a modern orderly nation, we have the right and ability to control our borders and immigration. We will not be a nation but just a geographic description at that point we can't or won't control them. Going back from the philosophical to the practical, we have the National Incident Management System (NIMS) designed specifically for these kinds of problems and if several hundred women and children crossing and surrendering immediately every day in one particular sector of the SWB is not a national incident requiring a coordinated WOG approach I don't know what is then. NIMS and the National Response Framework are part of the National Strategy for Homeland Security and we are not using the plans and procedures that supposedly we are going to use if SHTF. I would have confidence that this is not a disaster destined for epic proportions and long term national consequences if something substantial was being done. That the situation was being handled if you saw any of the basics for this type of incident being stood up: The Incident Command System being stood up for C2 The Multiagency Coordination System working to get LE, Mil, Legal and NGOs together in a coherent plan. The Public Information System formally up and running giving a daily briefing on the state of the incident and the response to it. None of this is being done, the debate about illegal immigration, how much border security is necessary or what is the LONG term status of these people are other issues compared to the ACTUAL primary problem: our Federal Government is doing almost nothing to handle the problem or to stop the problem. Water is pouring into the boat but they don't want to plug the hole in the boat and bail out the water, nah just keep bailing some of the water out not even as much water as is coming in. The Federal Government and specifically the Executive Branch could cool down the rhetoric and tempers if they surged and put together a strong response. They roasted President Bush for a tepid first response to Katrina, the media are giving a free pass to President Obama and actually poisoning the national debate about this latest illegal immigration crisis.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, I've never broken the law intentionally or unintentionally. Ever. I'm perfect in every way. Thanks for using your insightful prowess to brutally and completely prove that if you have ever violated any law or regulation in he US that you have no legal or moral right to expect that the laws of the US concerning illegal immigration should be enforced.

It may be a pain but so it driving the speed limit, paying your taxes and pretty much anything else customer service related with the government but it is what we've got. Without it (the law, due process, general order and civility) we're nothing more than another loosely governed country that is not ruled by law but whatever group is the loudest or most violent.

Doesn't have to go loud - border security should still be deterrence, apprehension and then force as required but that force could be lethal if required Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The system would have tunnel detection capability - plus with the setback of buying property on the border makes tunnels have to run that much longer thereby discouraging them and making them more likely to be detected But look at the South Koreans - the crazy North Koreans dig underneath the DMZ does that mean they should get rid of their fences? Some illegal crossing will still happen but we will reduce it to a trickle then we will be in a position to deal with all the other related issues Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

2 on helping Mexico and I would include Central America in prosecuting their drug war / insurgency Security - Assistance - Reform in that order Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not if we build a border security system and not just a tall fence. Here is a good example of what needs to be built in strategic areas where there is high traffic, not along the entire length of the border. You would need purchase private property and have state property transferred to the Federal govt. and I am sure it would cost a significant amount but it would be worth it. Not to stop legal immigration and legitimate commerce, tourism, etc... but just to fight illegal crossing. Is it going to stop all illegal crossing, no of course not but it will greatly hamper and deter the majority of it, make those who are going to try cross illegally go to rugged terrain where they will either be detected and arrested or stopped by the difficult terrain itself. If you doubt the effectiveness of a border security system, check out Israel's success with their latest border security system: Does a Border Fence Work? Check Out the Dramatic Change After Israel Put One Up Charles Krauthammer has had the most intelligent commentary on this issue(s) lately, he summed up what a majority of Americans want. Secure the border, stop the cycle of illegal immigration, treat the illegal aliens who are here firmly but fairly and be merciful but wise with the children coming from Central America. Krauthammer: "If Fences Don't Work, Why Is There One Around The White House?" Charles Krauthammer / Fence the border, close a loophole and enforce immigration law Not calling you personally out on this Vertigo but people opposed to the idea of serious concerted effort to stop illegal crossing / immigration keep trying to blur the line between legal and illegal immigration, blur and mix the issue of border security with racism towards the mainly Hispanic group of illegal immigrants that cross our Southern border. Border security has nothing to do with legal immigration policy or what is the status of these children coming from Central America.

2 4 billion for a secure border is a deal - once the infrastructure was in place the sustaining cost of a Mil-LE mission would probably be half that Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Probably so but as a taxpayer this is the sort of thing I will gladly pay for Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No problem with that pivot either, but in relation to what should our be high, much higher on our foreign policy to-do-list is Mexico-Central America-The Caribbean. They are the nations closest to us, some of our biggest trading partners and have problems that are not so big that we can probably help them solve them or at least effectively reduce them. Thanks, you're right in the middle of it so you have a better perspective on it than I do. There are illegal immigrants where I am (Southeast) but we are not currently seeing the massive influx that the border states and directly adjoining areas are. I agree with you that I see the Immigration Issue as more complex and nuanced than what a 10 second soundbite can convey but I see the Border Security issue very simply. Those are two different issues and the fact that people even coming from desperate conditions are able to cross freely a loosely governed country and then either cross clandestinely or merely cross and, present themselves to Law Enforcement, be released into the country they were illegally crossing into with only a court summons order that 80% of them ignore and then establish employment illegally, often use the government social safety net illegally and then agitate to be granted either permanent residency or citizenship with no end in sight for this problem strikes me as national suicide. No matter how bad it is for these people, letting them remain for any serious length of time only reinforces the risk-reward calculus to attempting to cross. I have no problem with providing immediate aid (food, shelter, clothing and basic medical care) but what is needed is not a capitulation but a repatriation and aid plan for their countries. Coming from this as the perspective of a Guardsmen, I can't for any reason (except for the most cynical) see why the Guard (Air and Army) have not been called up to assist the CBP. We have National Response Plans for these types of emergencies / situations and we are trained and equipped to do this, either use the Guard to secure the homeland or not.

Initial report of TB among illegal immigrant minors at Lackland http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/07/immigration-crisis-tuberculosis-spreading-at-camps/ Not for a iron fist response, a lot of them are young kids in a very vulnerable spot but this is a turning point - we're going to control who comes in and stays or not. This latest crisis makes me think we don't need a pivot to Asia but a pivot to Central America.

God bless Charles Krauthammer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWTbRS0N-gk Full video here