17D_guy

My kind of place.

Elaborate? Or was this the brief spoken about with someone from A3?

All this for us cyber guys too. Don't need a OCO/DCO team trying to decrypt DTS to get out the door *NOW.* However, I'm not a fan of more contractors doing this work. Also, for us the additional $12K after taxes doesn't touch the additional ~$45K and choice of living location I was offered on the civ side. Sq/Org culture could make up for that, but I don't think I (or my family) can wait 5 years for it to possibly happen.

Reading fail on my part, I thought someone was saying the AF did this and I was generally wondering which community.

So, Lots going on this week in Cyber. The whole WannaCry issue has again highlighted how awful everyone is at security/patching. Can't get into specifics, but the USAF is no better with getting patches loaded on time. But our boundaries are amazing and the operators there are legit. If you'd like some more info on WannaCry, just google it. Also had a ISAG group come by our spaces this week to discuss cyber things with every rank group. It was interesting to talk with the different rank groups what was covered in their areas and how people felt about the event overall. Some felt they were talked down to, my group felt listened to though we were bewildered by the confusion Gen Welch had when discussing how cyber does assignments. He stated repeatedly that A1 likes us all as 17D's, because they can just throw us around so much easier into assignments. Someone actually said "A1 got us into this fiasco." There's little/no concern for past experience or training once you're a Capt. He said that as a 11F he was always an 11F, and up through Col could count on staying near, if not in, a flying position. It's just not the same for us "cyber opertors." We can do 2 17S ops tours (DCO/OCO) and then go to 17D staff, then go be a 17D DO at a traditional Comm Sq, and then go back to staff in a 17D slot, then go back to 17S Ops as a Sq CC...on a completely different weapon system on which initially qualified. There is no staying qualified on the weapon system you were previously on. There's kinda discussion for that with the Comm Sq of the Future, but that's for DCO. OCO... there's nothing. Where do you think a large portion of our true operators (in the legit sense) are? Then come to find out, while our manning is absolute garbage (remember Grosso's "90% retention necessary") we're getting promoted at a significantly lower rate. Gen Welch couldn't understand how the Comm/Cyber AFSC, which through his whole career had dedicated, hard working and recognized O's/E's, was now getting promoted at a significantly lower rate than previously selected. Apparently this has caught the eye of some leadership. Meanwhile we just had one of our best Col's retire 29 days short of 3 years with O6 pinned on and AFSPC didn't waive it so he could retire in rank. Retirement orders stated Lt Col. Wonder why so few of the non-prior E's who're legit, aren't taking that bonus. The now-retired Lt Col is doing fine w/ his VP position at a Defense Contractor, but that's just shitty. Gen Welch also didn't like that people coming out of IQT/MQT were not comfortable on operating their weapon system. We had one of our WIC's stay he never felt comfortable and the single month of training on the equipment didn't really prepare him for anything. He had to do almost everything OJT, and before missions he'd deep dive into what they were going to do so that he could actually use the equipment. Finally, there are Cyber guys who just want to do the support mission. They don't want to be hackers or highly technical. They want to keep the flying mission running. However, there's no place for them right now with this deep focus on cyber. One of the panel members brought up "maintenance" which we cautioned against, because everything's an operation in cyber. Overall, good discussion, but reaffirmed my decision to not take the bonus and keep the cards close on future plans. I've got only a little while left until check-of-the-month club.

Having run around the higher levels of a Sq a few times now, this is the feeling I get from most 1st time CC's in Comm/Cyber. I don't know how you fliers do it, but unless our O's dig into the many areas of a Sq (finance, civ relations, first shirt issues, etc.) we get no experience from it. My last boss was great, and brought me into a lot of the CC's issues...but I'd say that was the exception. The MAJCOM Sq/CC courses are a joke. Last boss said it was basically "Call the Command Post if there's a suicide/rape/assault/etc." with little else about dealing with being a commander, working with other commanders, etc. Can you give an example of this grooming/preparing?

Next SOS class was cancelled to do a course re-write. Gouge is they're going to add another week back, so future schedule is in the air also. Class was supposed to start 5 Jun, so lots of people just had summer plans nixed.

The argument isn't "was this legal," it's "was this the right thing to do." The Pres can declassify, but as Toro said above it was probably him spouting off to sound self-important and may have put intel assets/collection at risk. It's basically the same damn argument we have on here when CC's give LOR's when they can't get a Art-15 to stick, PT stupidity, RIF's, etc. Interesting to see people line up on certain sides.

Why not both?

AHAHAHAHA....We can't even get them to fire terrible Group Commanders and up.

This so much. Me via my Col, "Hey, there's this big new service migration coming week after next. The 4-star promised the other 4-star we'd get it done. The ticket's been in for a couple of weeks now with no action. Sq/Commander X, can you look into it and make sure it moves along so we're not wrangling Amn on a Sat to get it done. It is planned for XX May XX." CC'd whole chain for vis. Nothing for 4 days, so we pinged saying this was coming <a week. Commander X, "We've got to make sure it goes through our ad hoc process, did I mention we're undermanned?" "Right, but...you know, 4-stars, high-vis...you're a Commander. We've made Amn jump through their ass before, and we're trying to avoid that. Can you give me a ETA of when it'll get done" "Ops Grp" CD, "Well, you can raise the priority on it and that'll move it through the log-jam. I'll get you a POC. What's the due date, we aren't tracking it?" Call "Ops Group" 5 hours later since we've had no comms. CC, CD, Sq/CC all gone TDY/Leave. Talk to the civ "deputy" who "Doesn't work the ops side of the house." Goes on and on about how the new contract is going to take care of all these tickets in the future, and we need to plan them better, etc. Sq DO shoots me an email telling me we need to prioritize their work for them, that they've had this ticket for a week, but weren't doing anything because it's a "project" and they don't work those unless tasked. Once it's tasked, then they'll start planning, but won't start planning now. Also, they guy they need to do it won't be in for the rest of the week, so we have to figure something else out. Accused my Col of Bro-netting the tickets to get done. I will not be taking the bonus, because I will not serve under these monkeys.

Usually you can set a time out window (ex. 30 days) until you need to verify again.

I know the BLUF emails get hate on here. But having to deal with the current crop of Maj-Cols (sometimes 1-stars) and (MSgts-E9) that won't just get to the point, I understand why they now exist. So many "Commanders" want to have a discussions about a problem and solution they're not going to own any part of. So, we've got to sit there for 40 min while they hash it out, talking past each other with no resolution but tons of quibbling and requests for guidance, prioritization and pointing out where provided written guidance is lacking. Ugh, I hate this job. I told you guys our "cyber operators" get crew rest for a 5 hour sortie, right? I generally just tell my Airman to give me the information in tweet length and problem solved.

Pretty Darn Good

We do this in cyber...well between Ops and Traditional Comm/Staff. Remember what Grosso said about 90% retention required? Wonder why.

Well, In cyber we got a Viper driver as the 24 AF/CC and it has been fantastic for getting us towards operational and really getting the rest of the "3" community to pay attention. Doubly so for the awful network that's been flogged for years that's just been blamed on "Comm." for not doing well enough. When the bag-wearer tells the 4-stars, "You've deferred MX on the network, doing spot fixes only, for a decade." People listen. Watching him tell SES's that he didn't care if their pet application had 4-star support, he's in charge of cyber ops and running Server 2003 wasn't allowable anymore, was fantastic. Doubly so w/ Gen Bender backing him up. Far cry from the awful space-O's who're somehow also considered "ops." Having worked with EWO community and how it works/attacks in the "the cybers" has really helped me develop something approaching an operational mindset. Unfortunately, they're stuck with Intel in 25AF now, but we're all headed to ACC and can hopefully break them into cyber. Cyber NEEDS operational (re: rated) leaders to come over and teach us, advocate for us, and point out and ostracize the support-minded fucks who're holding everything back. We need those leaders as Maj's, so we can educate our junior O's, and not try to convert these Col's who grew up in traditional Comm and scoff whenever I point out how flyers operate and say, "This is cyber, we're different." For example - "We need an office or something to coordinate these teams movements when they head out to do missions/sorties." I say that sounds like a scheduling office, and should be done in the wing/units responsible and not as a staff function. Just like a flying wing does. Reply was, "Well, this is different. We've got to coordinate clearances, and sometimes they go overseas. A lot more than a flying scheduling office does." Not. Fucking. Kidding. Having to deal with CC's saying they're unsure if their "Mission Ready" presented crew is experienced enough to do a tasked operation. Watching them disregard our WIC's inputs out-of-hand because they don't align with Group leadership's plans. Sq CC's not knowing what their people do, or their own processes for execution. Saying people on cyber crew need crew rest...CREW REST. They use flying ops AFI's for it. K, getting to work pissed for a Saturday. Later all. PS: I hate this job.

Well, our ORB dropped. $15K a year for 4 year ADSC. All my prior-e friends have signed up (except the ones within 2 years of retirement), and those with 2+ years ADSC's already. Wife and I aren't decided yet. None of the true Cyber Operators I know have. So this all appears to mirror the same ACP issues you all have with dudes already staying are taking it.

No, no, no, no, no.... you forgot. Leadership from on high, "You can be replaced." People got the message, and acted accordingly.

Wow... how naive I feel thinking this was just the cyber-folks. You step out of the AFSC for even AF Institutional (SOS, OTS, etc.) you get back-of-the-bused unless you've got that sponsor. Had one boss do AFPAK made Col, had another do RAS and also made Col. But, look at the max exodus of O4+ from our AFSC, and the massive RIF's we took 2008 onward. Hell, I'll make Col at this point from sheer ability to breath and waiver out PT tests.

Well... AF is releasing the PDSM for Cyber Retention Pay in 2 days. Wonder what the take rate is going to be in comparison to you zipper suited sun gods. Doubly so, since Grosso said we need to retain 90% to make manning healthy.

Big fan of 2 & 6. I think the only thing holding this back is the fact that #1-3 or so management coveted and it would force leadership to be honest with everyone about where they stand. However, that's a problem with the culture overall that's got to get fixed. Had a Ops Sq CC who was re-strating everyone quarterly. We've done it with E's...why are we waiting for O's? However, for #1. I don't know, I'm on a staff now and we're just not manned for anything Big Blue, AFSPC, CYBERCOM, etc. requires us in a timely manner. It's staff, so I'm not working late on queep. I want peeps to flow back to Sq's easier (because: #1 it's the right thing, and #2 I want to) but we really need that experience at staff. Doubly so for our Cyber Operators. I don't know how you guys do it in other staffs, what's it like if a mobility guy comes into a fighter area? That's about what we got now with everyone (including me) coming in to get cyber-stink on them. Granted, we're so new it's just how it is, but we could really use a ton more people. For #1 I would suggest streamlining staffs to produce bare requirements (Group-> SAF) and killing the rest. We've done a portion of this with additional duties at Sq's...we need to keep moving that requirement up and up. If you're justifying your existence with busy(staff) work...go home. If you're not making the operators life better...go home.

Wow.. as a ABU flunkie I thought exactly the same thing. I'm not surprised the AF can't get Strategic Messaging right, I'm just surprised they've gotten it this wrong for this long. I mean, is there no one around (pilot/prior-E DGAF officer) to point out the stupid shit that gives people Forest Whitaker eye:

huh... how far it's changed from "you can all be replaced."

I've had to deal with this...it's not a joke. Had flashbacks just reading about "straight" quotation marks... UGH.

The piece lawfare did on Trumps first immigration EO was really good, even though I disagreed with initial premise. Can't second this enough, really good informative reading that'll make you think.