slackline

Listening to the impeachment debates going on right now. Absolutely disgusted by 2 things: the Trump apology tour by republicans, and the zero responsibility accepted by anyone on either side of the aisle. Everything is the fault of the other guy, none of anyone's actions, vitriol and rhetoric caused any of the current problems. It was all caused by the other guys... Time for every single one of them to be voted out. Zero incumbents should be voted back in for the next few elections!

I agree they'll mismanage the crap out of it, but I think you're forgetting that many state capitols dealt with identical issues that day, and are under threat of further violence on inauguration day, so yeah, no one else was involved.

That's a very legitimate point, one I agree with. But your attitude towards the virus side of it makes it hard to truly get after the poor govt response because the conspiracy theory whackjobs can't get past the "this is fake" part to have a real discussion. Govt is screwing this up by the numbers. Trump made it worse by a factor of who knows how stinkin much, so now all his Trumpkins will.never admit it, and prolong this much more than it would have been a problem. If reasonable people start acting like it's real, take it seriously, the tools will fall in line, and we can do more common sense things to fix the economy.

Clearly, you're the sample size we should base all info on... Science!

That's a great question! I think when the right thing is done for the wrong reasons and the negative fallout is outweighed by the positive outcome, you still have the one leg to stand on of "doing the right thing". Rarely, if ever, do politicians (R or D) do the right thing for the right reasons. Almost always done because it's "conveniently aligned" with their ulterior motives. Not married to that position though.

Sorry this is a few days late, but I just don't understand this mentality, or the seemingly small minded support of it. Seriously, people upvote this crap? Pure speculation with absolutely nothing to add to the factual conversation, but definitely leads people unwilling to do research themselves to go on believing this whole pandemic is just made up nonsense by the "man" to keep us down. Or that it isn't bad enough to take seriously. Yep, the powers that be are just continuing this garbage to ruin the economy, exert undue authority over us, limiting our rights and strike fear into our lives... Get real! This could definitely be handled better, but half of the problem is this stupid mentality backed up by nothing close to resembling science.

To me, screw politics. His actions, at the very least for the last 6ish months, have been beyond the pale. Time to show everyone else that wants to blatantly lie that there are repercussions. It would also serve to hedge all the extremists on the D side since a precedent will have been set. Impeach or 25th amendment works for me.

So which is it, unregulated capitalism, or just the regulations you want? You’re not going socialist are you? That seems to be the accusation thrown at everyone wanting any kind of regulation. Can’t have your cake and eat it too. My apologies if you’ve laid out your vision previously, and I just missed it. Otherwise, it seems as if it’s a typical GOP trope of wanting zero regulations when it benefits Wall Street, but they want some regulations to protect them from the big bad liberal bias machine.

No, he’s already agreed to disagree here. What you’ve said doesn’t fit his narrative, so the easy answer is, “conservatives are being silenced only, and what they’re saying isn’t that bad anyway. Also, you can’t really blame Trump or Cruz or Hawley because they didn’t literally say, ‘storm the Capitol’!” That’s more of the GOP apologist system that is going to prevent the GOP from ever really winning anything anymore if they don’t change. There are a lot of Republicans waking up to the fact that they’ve been hoodwinked for the last 4 years, and people like Cruz and Hawley will never have the voice they could have if they don’t own the fact that Trump was bad for the GOP. They still refuse to admit that Trump was an experiment gone wrong. None of his political wins can compensate for the damage he’s done to our country both at home and abroad.

Love this sentiment. It would solve a ton of our country's current issues!

Edit to clarify: of course everyone should be held to the same standard, but comparing anyone to Trump right off the bat eliminates anything resembling a "like" comparison. You just seem angry that Trump's bully pulpit was finally yanked. Just the perception. Maybe that's not the case. Do you even hear your own double standard sometimes? Of course that is an unacceptable tweet. Does he have a history like Trump did of posting inflammatory things? Does he have a following of 88M people? If the answer to either of those things is no, he's probably got some slack to play with. Even if he has a history, does anyone care what he thinks, so is it therefore likely that he could incite violence on the level Trump did, or even at all? Just thoughts, but it seems as if you're so bent on the left being wrong, evil or whatever it is you need to tell yourself to sleep at night that it doesn't matter what anyone says. You'll make an argument to counter everything anyone says... It's like I'm talking with my teenagers!

Collin Powell explains why he can't be GOP anymore For all those pseudo Patriots, here's a real one. If you've never seen him speak live, you've missed out. I'm not a fan of his wife at all because she forbade him from seeking public office. I understand it, but we needed him, and she wouldn't let him.

If this isn't a clear example of the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what would be🤣

Flea and I don't often agree. Who cares about the reason, I don't even care if he did it to literally say he fulfilled a promise that he doesn't care about. It is over a decade past the time we should have left that hole. Blatant politicking on his part, but still good for our country. We've wasted way too many lives and national treasure on a lost cause. Leave, and don't look back. Drop some pointee talkees on the way out saying we won't come back except with some JDAMs if they allow their territories to be used for training terrorists again. I've lost too many friends over there to care about the right vs wrong reason to leave a place we should have left forever ago.

This! Saying what @Prosuper said is what leads to QAnon and Parker having such a strangle hold on certain people. Not saying that’s where he’s at, but if supposedly educated and intelligent people believe his sentiment, then of course they’ll believe storming the Capitol is worthwhile. Don’t be so jaded as to lump us into the same category as other countries. Also, this sentiment doesn’t sit well with the sentiment that our country has zero race problems or equality with women vs men pay/opportunities. If we’re totally equal in race and gender, then it is probably not happening under a corrupt government. Those in the far right can’t claim both situations are true. Not a 100% correlation, but that logic is pretty sound.

I guess that's all true or possible, but I'd rather disagree with someone, like Lord Ratner for example, who's come to their conclusion based on reason and logic vs someone buying every talking point on Fox News or MSNBC simply because it's being said. We have to try, can't just say it's too difficult and not try.

I think my view led to protests, riots no. The extremists and opportunists took advantage. It is deplorable they did it. I'll even agree with you that some leaders on the left were pushing that narrative, but most weren't. On the right, most were pushing Trump's narrative. That's a problem.

You were involved in many of the discussions involving this topic, so I know you've seen the data that has been posted on this forum ad nauseum, so I'm not going to waste my time reposting it all. You must not have read my post if you're still saying I'm buying a vision of a racist America. I don't. I do, however, think there are problems that need to be addressed. Very credible sources from both sides of the aisle have been posted and disregarded by people in here. I've read the opposing side. There's a few black people siding with you claiming, "I overcame, so can anyone." That's not wrong, anyone can, but it ignores the unique challenges POC face. The rest of the evidence posted by the other side is a bunch of white people refusing to admit their could possibly be a problem. I'm not claiming America is racist. It's more progressive and forward thinking than most countries. We're called out for stuff by countries that are way worse than us. I lived on the French economy for 3 years. Waaaaay more racist! This is the best country in the world, hands down! I'm just saying we could be better.

Except for the volumes of fact based data and evidence proving that there are significant problems with the way policing is handled for one color vs another. Latest example is the largely white people mob that violently stormed the Capitol (one cop even died from the blue lives matter crowd) and then were allowed to leave vs the way many of the protests from this summer were handled. But I guess that's also just the media spinning it. Where were the volumes of facts and data evidencing the election fraud? So cool, keep believing that... People in the know aren't saying America is racist or that innocent black people are always targeted. They're talking about systems that have problems needing fixes and the disparity in the way black suspects are handled vs white suspects. Extremists and ignorant people claim otherwise because of ignorance pushed by the media at times, but those driving the movement aren't claiming what you're saying. On the other hand, the President and all of his elected enablers were pushing his falsehoods and conspiracy theories. This is not an apples to apples comparison.

It's called critical thinking. It needs to be taught by parents and teachers. We need to realize it's impossible to mask our biases, but do our best to try. Even when I agree with a point my 18 year old is making I try to get him to examine it from all sides. Try to understand what makes the other side tick, why they think the way they do, and encourage him not to shut out the people he disagrees with when they can't find common ground. Teachers need to do a better job of this starting in high school and solidify those principles in college. It should be part of any good teacher certification program to encourage thought from all sides, and keep your own thoughts out of the discussion unless specifically required by the subject matter being taught. Good luck...

Media absolutely holds blame in this, 100% agreed. I did not catch that that was the intent of your post at all, my bad. I might disagree on the reasons though. They gave him way too much airtime because they only care about ratings and he brings in the watchers. Many other reasons, but yes media holds blame. For Wednesday, nowhere near as much as Trump and his team of enablers. They caused Wednesday. People spouting the lies non-stop about the election being stolen. I think he got elected because people are sick of politicians. That's a good reason for him to have made the debate stage, not to have been elected. It was painfully obvious early on he was a sideshow, uninformed in US politics let alone world politics, and everyone on the right knew it. They didn't take him seriously because they're all vain and narcissistic, so they took down real, a few decent options, for president, leaving him to be the nominee... He rode a wave of voter disgust into the oval office, then failed to ever elevate the discussion to something worthy of the office. His biggest enemies became his most ardent supporters. Their blatant, disgusting hypocrisy on full display for the world to see. That stuff will, and should haunt people like Cruz and Graham the rest of their political lives. Clearly out for themselves and whatever will get them the votes, not what is good for the country.

Your memory is so biased and one sided it’s kind of hilarious. But, as has been said on here time and again, that’s politics. The fact that you (royal You, not individual you) are already done with your “disgust” from Wednesday’s events and have so readily moved on to comparisons about what happened this summer is predictable, and it’s already happening everywhere on the right. Everything that happened this summer was due to decades of unfair treatment, but so many on the right (often because life is pretty dang comfortable for them) never believed that POC weren’t being offered the same kind of leeway in the realm of crime and punishment that others were anyway. Anything that amounted to a riot/looting was wholly wrong! Period, dot! But yeah, I’ll say it, I understand where they’re coming from, where their frustration comes from, and why they may feel they are at a boiling point. Nothing appears like it will ever change, and those on the right, even moderates, are deaf to their cries. Doesn’t justify/excuse riots/looting, but it does make it somewhat understandable. Now, Wednesday. Come on, I dare you to say that those people felt the same way, and have been dealing with decades of the same treatment. Do it with a straight face. They’ve been fed a steady stream of lies from Trump and his enablers (we’ve heard it a TON from members of this forum) about election fraud and stealing the election since the 2020 election started to become a headline. Trump even tried to blame election fraud on his loss of the popular vote in 2016. So I’ll even say you could get away with saying they’ve been hearing this garbage for 4 years. Not decades of horrible, unfair mistreatment at the hands of policing institutions. We’re not going to start that debate here, none of you believe it even with the mountains of facts and data that have been provided. My point is comparing this week with the summer’s events outside of saying any type of riot/looting/violence is unacceptable is gross and a farce. Stop looking for ways (in general to the Right, not you KA) rationalize/compare what happened this week to what happened over the summer. They’re not the same. We have not been on this track for a while. Trump and his enablers actively fomented these loonies on the right. Trump wanted this to happen. He wanted to burn it all down. He’s never cared about anything other than Trump. The fact that some of you couldn’t see that earlier is laughable.

Thanks, I don’t entirely agree with your premise, but the considered response is appreciated.

I’m no Democrat, and like you, I am afraid of what they could potentially do now that they are in control. Also, like you, I doubt they’re going to be able to do anything because they’re incompetent. Edited to add: Totally agree that the media is also partly to blame for stoking the contention in this country. Their one-sided views are obvious and haven’t really helped, but made it worse! That being said, let’s not get crazy here, how do Democrats hold part of the blame here? You’ve completely failed to make that case. Yesterday was a direct result of a sitting president spouting lies and disinformation for well over 6 months! He’s been talking about the election being stolen for a very long time. His Republican allies/enablers allowed it to keep going by at times just keeping their mouths shut and at times spouting the exact same garbage. Yesterday was a direct result of a president stoking an already angry crowd to levels of action they would not have taken otherwise. Please, explain how anything the Democrats could have done to keep yesterday from happening that lies within the bounds of reason. Should they have allowed the numerous, baseless challenges to the election go through the processes to be investigated? Guess what, they did, and they all failed to meet the threshold. Should they have done more to promote the election process via in person voting vs mail in or other methods? How does/would that have put a muzzle on Trump? It wouldn’t have. He didn’t get his way, so he had zero intention of ever being quiet. Trump is a petulant child. We’ve known that for years. Republican enablers, from educated officers/people in here to elected officials are to blame for yesterday. Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul just to name a few elected officials knew exactly who he was during the election and they called him out for his lack of intelligence, empathy, political savvy, and every other reason he would make a poor president. Instead of taking the position, okay, he’s who we’ve got, let’s make the best of it while holding his feet to the fire, they took the position of, well, let’s completely ignore all the problems we know he could cause and embrace him fully! They enabled his poor behavior over the last 4 years. They turned a blind eye to his rhetoric and absolutely ignorant actions. They hold the blame for the Democrats taking the House earlier, and now the Senate this week. It is silly to blame Democrats for yesterday’s actions. But it isn’t surprising after watching 4 years of apologists excusing behavior from Trump. Again, no supporter of Democrats here, I think, if they can hold it together, we’re in for a bumpy ride. I’m hoping they’ll continue to be as incompetent as they have been. If you want to cast blame on them for the general political climate, that’s fair. But Trump and his supporters (many of whom knew what a dirtbag he was before he was elected, but seemed to forget that) are squarely at fault for the doubt cast on our electoral process and yesterday’s attack on democracy. This was not a physical coup with any real shot at success, but it was definitely an attack on our way of life that will have lasting damage. I hope that it will serve instead as a rallying cry to remind people of who we are and what our country stands for, so we can come together.

I'll admit coup is strong. But what term would you like to use? In your book a coup is only real if there is a legitimate shot at it working? Doesn't matter if the people who were doing it took it seriously, put Trump flags up instead of the American flag, took everything Trump said seriously? They would attack right now if Trump called for it. It would get crushed immediately, and have zero shot at working. Doesn't change that this is the first time since the Brits attacked that our Capitol has seen any action. Doesn't change that this was a disgusting attack on our way of life. That's not nothing. Your ambivalent attitude about it is gross, and yes, I said gross. You'd be pissed if this happened due to a social justice action...