ComingLeft Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 I am working on my post-VSP pipe dream. I have been talking to Cameron-Brooks and trying to separate the sales pitch from reality. I think I heard the guy salivating over his commission already. Has anyone had any luck breaking into the finance or consulting industries in Chicago, New York, Boston, etc? Any constructive advice or contacts would be appreciate. Stats for reference: Did well at the Zoo, the AF (multiple strats, awards), and MBA (4.0, Brick and Mortar, but not top tier). Just a simple What are my chances? question for the real world. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 You have to appreciate the irony... A subforum full of "What are my chances" threads about becoming a pilot, and here's a topic about a guy pulling chocks and asking "what are my chances" at a job on the outside. Nothing to see here, AFPC/A-1.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComingLeft Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 Yep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForgotPassword Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) As is probably obvious...most big firms do their own recruiting for the top schools in their region and have formal leadership/development programs for young grads. I think it will be very tough to break into their funnel.....but I don't know enough about cameron brooks. I wouldn't get your hopes up for the big well known firms...but maybe they can put you in a niche boutique group in which your background would help out a lot? I'd say get on the horn to any zoomies you know that may be in the field and can give you some advice. What % get investment banking? Edited January 27, 2014 by ForgotPassword Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Coming, I left active duty back in 2011 and wrapped up an MBA last year from one of the better programs and have many friends who've gone into financial services and consulting. When you say finance what are you thinking? Like banking, trading, FP&A at a fortune 500, or something else? What's your undergrad? I wouldn't think Cameron Brooks is going to be able to help you much if you want to go the direction of professional services. If you can provide a little more detail I can probably help direct you some--you can take it to PM, but I was thinking about starting a thread for discussing transition out of the Air Force into non-aviation industry, so maybe this can be that thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilitaryToFinance Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 You are going to have to network like hell and find somebody who knows somebody. All the major consulting firms and banks recruit from top MBA's into their Associate programs. Offers for full-time jobs starting in June of this year were wrapped up a few months ago, summer internship offers for this year are going out right now. So you're already late/off-cycle. Unfortunately you already have an MBA because that is the best path into these jobs. Like Square said above, it will depend a lot on your goals and what you really want. You mentioned both consulting and finance in your post which have very different career paths, work-life balance and recruiting. Consulting could also range from strategy consulting at McKinsey to internal corporate strategy at a F500 company. The latter will be easier to get but I'm assuming when most people say Consulting they mean strategy consulting at McKinsey/Bain/BCG type place and when they say Finance they mean Investment Banking. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If you are looking at the middle market banks or boutique consulting firms that will make life easier. Goldman Sachs has a Veterans Integration Program but you missed the application window. You can also check out Veterans on Wall Street and American Corporate Partners to get started. **Qualifications: Separated last year to start a full-time MBA at a top program and am recruiting to work in hedge funds. We have a strong military group and send 5-8 people into consulting and 5-8 people into investment banking each year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dupe Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I'm working on my MBA while still trying to mine the salt on active duty. If I jump ship, I'm looking for more operations and management than finance. Any big-picture advice for making the leap out of mother blue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) I'll pile on some with Mappeby, and provide a little general background, first on management consulting, then a little on finance. If you're interested one of the "baseops.net" equivalents for those industries is a site called wallstreetoasis (dot) com. You have to wade through a lot of crap to get good info, but it's certainly there. So consulting is a pretty broad industry. I'll leave aside engineering, environmental, scientific, and the like and focus on business or commercial firms. Mappleby referenced a few companies called McKinsey, Bain, and Boston Consulting Group. These three together are sometimes referred to as MBB--they're generally considered the top of the heap in the industry. They are primarily known as strategy firms. After that top tier of firms there are a few others that are big names, some do strategy work and others do what is sometimes called implementation consulting, IT consulting, or operational consulting or all of the above. Some examples here would be Booz and Co (not the same as Booz Allen Hamilton--and also not a stand alone firm anymore), Deloitte, PwC, Accenture, AT Kearney, IBM. A lot of big companies also have internal strategy groups that serve much the same function as these types of firms. There are tons of smaller consulting firms out there. Some do strategy work, others are involved in serving financial firms in doing due diligence prior to an investment. As a whole the industry is undergoing a lot of change, with consolidation between the strategy and implementation sides of the business. HBR had an article about that it a few months ago. Those top tier firms generally are structured very much like a pyramid. They recruit heavily from ivy league type colleges for their analysts. Analysts generally stay for a handful of years and move on to another job, or to grad school, or sometimes rarely get promoted to the associate level. Associates are the next layer in the pyramid. Generally these are folks who are recruited out of MBA programs or other grad schools. Competition for associate jobs is intense. Most associates also don't stay longer than a few years. The attraction of consulting is the compensation--associates can start north of 110K with sizeable bonuses--the opportunity to see lots of companies and industries, and having the name of the consulting firm on the resume provides great opportunities for the next job. Downside is a pretty lousy lifestyle: being on the road Mon-Thurs week in and week out. These firms do value a military background, but they also have recruiting practices that are pretty set in stone. Getting in from outside of a campus recruiting system could be tough. The place to start would be finding someone in your network at one of these firms and starting a dialog. I know that PwC and Deloitte also have dedicated military recruiting programs, but I don't know if they're for the consulting arms of those companies or more backoffice roles. You may be able to connect with them at a veteran's career fair like Military MOJO or Hiring our Heroes or the like. There's also something like Deloitte's Core Leadership Program (it'll come up if you google it). Not much else is springing to mind to share. Does all that make sense? Edited January 27, 2014 by Square 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONE WSO Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I'm getting my MBA from UT-Austin on the weekends while still on active duty stationed at Dyess. I'm finishing up this summer. My plan was to separate from the AF and take a path similar to what you are looking at. I did on campus recruiting and got interviews at almost every company I applied to. I even turned down a bunch of investment banking interviews because my wife refuses to live in Houston. I interviewed at Bain, Deloitte, Accenture, Ernst & Young, KPMG, American Airlines, AT&T, JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs and a few others. All of these interviews came about through OCR at UT, except JP Morgan and GS which I got from networking. If you don't have a recruiting program to go through like I did at UT, you have to network like crazy. I spent literally 12 hours on the phone with 5 different guys at JP Morgan before I got an interview. The guys I talked to all told me that is the only way to get a job there and that if you just sent in your resume without knowing anybody they would just throw it away. Everything is all about networking. I have a profile on LinkedIn and I would no shit just search for guys that were prior military officers that worked at companies I was interested in and send them a message that I was interested in their company and wanted to learn more. Every single one of them answered me back and spent time on the phone with me giving me insight on how to get a job there. If you aren't doing this stuff you won't get hired because other people like me are doing it. I talked to the guys at Cameron Brooks also but the salary was much lower ($85-$95K) than what I could get coming out of UT ($105-$150k) and they wanted you to commit to moving anywhere in the US, which I was unwilling to do. Honestly, the more I interviewed and talked to guys in my MBA program, the more I liked my job in the AF. Maybe it was because everybody I interviewed with would say stuff like "Damn, you have the coolest job in the world, getting to drop bombs and do cool stuff. WTH would you want to spend all day doing powerpoint?" I started to ask myself if the things I don't like about the AF are that big of a deal and I concluded they are not. It gave me a good perspective and made me appreciate the Bros I work with and the cool stuff we get to do. I learned to ignore the BS we all hate and can't change. After all of this, I decided that I wasn't really a good fit for getting a "real job" and pulled my separation paperwork back. If I do get out later I will probably open my own company because I can't really see myself in the corporate world. Another piece of advice. Almost every company questioned my "business skills" and if I could do the modeling and other parts of the job since I have spent ten years in the AF. I finally starting asking guys what I could do to improve my resume. At least 2 guys told me that if I could get Microsoft Excel Expert certified this would ease their fears that I wouldn't be able to handle pivot tables and other financial modeling. I also completed the Wall Street Prep online financial modeling certification and got a lot of positive comments about that. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panchbarnes Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Excellent post BONE WSO. For all potential VSPers looking at a typical private sector office job (my experience): 1. $100K in the military does not equal $100K in the private sector. A big part of your military compensation is tax free, not to mention free health care. Where as on the outside, expect ~30% federal income tax rate for someone making $100K. On top that, expect to pay at least a few of hundred dollars a month out of pocket for health insurance premium (unless you have TRICARE Reserve Select). I was making $85K for a large corporation and my monthly take home pay was about the same as a 2Lt. 2. As a new employee expect 10-15 Paid Time Off (PTO) days. No annual 30 day leave or unlimited sick days. 3. Civilian HR is far far worse than our very own A1. In my experience, there is much less transparency and accountability in the private sector. Civilian HR is absolutely the most useless dept in a large corporation but they hold a lot of power. 4. Job satisfaction. BONE WSO nailed it (STS). 5. Link to the DFAS Military Compensation calculator. Mil Pay data is outdated but close enough. http://militarypay.defense.gov/pay/calc/index.html Edited January 27, 2014 by PanchBarnes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 You have to appreciate the irony... A subforum full of "What are my chances" threads about becoming a pilot, and here's a topic about a guy pulling chocks and asking "what are my chances" at a job on the outside. Nothing to see here, AFPC/A-1.... Yes, it is a great irony. My interpretation, however, is that this might be a big case of "the grass always seems greener." I actually caught up with my old boss a few years ago on LinkedIn. I worked for him doing engineering stuff about 10 years ago before joining the Air Force. The real reason I was touching base with him was just to keep my feelers out in the industry and see what opportunities there were. Before I even got to mention that I was thinking about getting back into engineering, he went on about how cool it was that I had the nuts to quit my cushy, well paying job to do something that I love and how he was just still sitting there doing the same shit, working a desk, etc. (I also noticed from his profile that he had been promoted twice and was likely making a lot more than the $115/year he was making 10 years ago). But in his eyes, I had the envious job - flying jets for the Air Force while getting jerked around with BS cutbacks and queepy extra requirements. In my eyes, I was admiring the stability of his having a nice, stable job that pays close to $200/year, wondering if I made a mistake 10 years ago quitting that job. I guess that grass always seems nicer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sputnik Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Dad of a friend of mine was an anesthesiologist, every time I ran into him he'd go on about his regrets about not being a military pilot. Considering the zillions per year he was banking.... It made me like what I was doing even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForgotPassword Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Excellent post BONE WSO. 1. $100K in the military does not equal $100K in the private sector. A big part of your military compensation is tax free, not to mention free health care. Where as on the outside, expect ~30% federal income tax rate for someone making $100K. On top that, expect to pay at least a few of hundred dollars a month out of pocket for health insurance premium (unless you have TRICARE Reserve Select). I was making $85K for a large corporation and my monthly take home pay was about the same as a 2Lt. Additionally for anyone considering a jump to GS....I'm a reserve officer but also have had past experiences as a GS. When on AD I made more as an O1 than as a GS-12. An O3 with 4 years of service makes more than a GS-13. The trend continues all the way up the GS scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialD Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Additionally for anyone considering a jump to GS....I'm a reserve officer but also have had past experiences as a GS. When on AD I made more as an O1 than as a GS-12. An O3 with 4 years of service makes more than a GS-13. The trend continues all the way up the GS scale.Was this as a GS-13-2181? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForgotPassword Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Was this as a GS-13-2181? Sorry, didn't mention, that was for/as a regular GS...no incentives or special pay et cetera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Additionally for anyone considering a jump to GS....I'm a reserve officer but also have had past experiences as a GS. When on AD I made more as an O1 than as a GS-12. An O3 with 4 years of service makes more than a GS-13. The trend continues all the way up the GS scale. Yes and no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbar Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Dad of a friend of mine was an anesthesiologist, every time I ran into him he'd go on about his regrets about not being a military pilot. Considering the zillions per year he was banking.... It made me like what I was doing even more. My unit's Chief of Staff is a Navy O-6 SEAL and he told me his biggest regret is not being able to get into Navy pilot training. Actually said he kinda feels somewhat like a failure because of it (he loves airplanes). Really!?! O-6 SEAL and you feel like a loser!?! Grass IS always greener on the other side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETARJ Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 When I was looking to move into the civilian sector, these were good websites to start looking at, especially as a USAFA grad. Networking is important, if you have a contact inside the firm it is almost always better than the group interview, job fair avenue. http://www.acp-usa.org/ http://www.jsaje.com/ http://sacc-jobfair.com/ http://veteransonwallstreet.com/ http://www.wallstreetwarfighters.org/web/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BONE WSO Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I can vouch for ACP. I signed up with them. They assign you a mentor in the private sector in the field that you are interested in transitioning to. These mentors are sometimes former military but oftentimes it is just guys that want to support the military. I was interested in Private Banking and Wealth Management and they assigned me a very successful financial advisor at UBS. This guy was in the Top 100 advisors in the country, making over $2 mil/year. We talked often and he went out of his way to help me with the transition. He knew I wanted to move to Dallas and he called the UBS Director and got me an interview without me even asking him to help. I went to a couple of interviews and ended up getting the offer, even though I eventually turned it down. The guys in Dallas weren't even hiring but just through this program I was able to secure a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thud Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 BONE WSO's story should sum up the common theme here... networking. I started talking to the old dudes in my previous squadrons about guys they knew who had made the transition... which led me to some former pilots working in the middle market space and a few boutique private equity firms... who in turn paired me up with non-military guys closer to where I was looking to move geographically. Once I started talking to the non-military folks it obviously became a little more difficult to translate my value into something that would make a recruiter's ears perk up. However, those guys did provide a solid service of thrashing through my resume in an attempt to help the military-to-civilian conversion. I spent the better part of a year cold-calling and listening to "I loved Top Gun as a kid" comments, but I realized that IB wasn't for me... so I kept on reaching out to people with the expectation that I'll figure out where I fit before I separate in 1.5 years. Mappleby's absolutely right with respect to the recruiting cycle of the bulge bracket players (if you're looking at banking)... middle market guys like William Blair, RW Baird, Jefferies, etc may have a little more latitude in their summer associate programs, but I imagine that it would be a unique situation (definitely driven by you knowing someone). Your MBA alma mater may be able to plug you in with somebody as well. WallstreetOasis has a lot of noise... which I believe someone else mentioned. I'd recommend Mergers and Inquisitions (use the google). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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