How much time does it generally take to become Aircraft Commander? Reason I ask is because I was looking through Southwest Airlines website and they will only take AC time as PIC and that got me thinking.

Generally speaking, about 2 years give or take. Each MWS has its own hours/experience requirements and those are always tempered with unit manning, funding, etc. For an MWS, 2 years give or take a few months seems pretty common.

I should add, IIRC guys in OSA type airframes (C-21, C-12, etc) upgrade to AC in a hurry. I spent some time with the C-21 flight at Offutt a couple years ago and remember 1Lt ACs and guys who had made IP within a couple months of pinning on Captain.

Originally posted by Walter_Sobchak:

I should add, IIRC guys in OSA type airframes (C-21, C-12, etc) upgrade to AC in a hurry. I spent some time with the C-21 flight at Offutt a couple years ago and remember 1Lt ACs and guys who had made IP within a couple months of pinning on Captain.

If you go to UPT right after graduation (or after your 60 days of leave), then get a C-21 out of UPT, you can actually make IP as a 1Lt, which isn't uncommon.

I was an aircraft commander the first time I soloed the Viper in the B-course.

So Beaver, how's the PIC time on the M-4?

Do you get to stay on flight status when you ride in the back of a C-130/C-17?

Originally posted by flyboyav8or:

Reason I ask is because I was looking through Southwest Airlines website and they will only take AC time as PIC and that got me thinking.

You're a pilot select and you're worrying about AC time for the airlines? Sounds like a bit of misprioritization to me.

Most guys in the 21 upgrade to AC @ the 1-year on station time frame. You also need a minimum of 400 hours in the 21. For IP upgrade...all you need is 100 hours of AC time (in the C21). I would say that about 75% our guys going through IP school are 1Lts.

Wow Toro! I usually respect your posts because you give alot of people good advice and insight. Misprioritization is way off. Why knock people for looking into the future. It was just a question and the questions still stands for anyone willing to actually supply an answer instead of criticism.

I was an AC, IP, 2 ship flight lead, and a 4 ship flight lead 5 months after I graduated UPT as a 2nd LT. Ahh, the life of a FAIP!

No time like H-time...

Originally posted by Vetter:

I was an AC, IP, 2 ship flight lead, and a 4 ship flight lead 5 months after I graduated UPT as a 2nd LT. Ahh, the life of a FAIP!

reading the title of this thread, I was thinking the exact same thing. I say "flight lead" around work and the bros roll their eyes...

M4 was pretty cool, and I still get flight pay. When I'm in the back of a C-130 or C-17 I go up to the cockpit and envy the pilots.

Toro, has it right in his words. Putting the cart before the horse is foolish and you you end up going nowhere fast.

Originally posted by Toro:

You're a pilot select and you're worrying about AC time for the airlines? Sounds like a bit of misprioritization to me.

Originally posted by Beaver:

I was an aircraft commander the first time I soloed the Viper in the B-course.

0.0 of A-10 dual/other time.

Toro, it's a good question...lay off. A simple question doesn't mean he's "worrying about it"

I think Toro's words are good advice, but I understand what flyboyav8r is getting at. Some people make the AF a career, some do not, some join the ANG, some do not.

You've got to have a plan, keep your options open, never burn any bridges, excel at everything you do, be the go-to guy in the squadron for flying related issues and don't be that guy who is talking about his airline job the day he checks in the squadron. Commit to the present and plan for the future.

Flyboy, you'll have a 10 year commitment to the AF after UPT. You can expect to upgrade in 2-3 years to AC, and IP should come 6 - 18 months on the heels of that (in the heavy world).

You'll have PLENTY of time for the airlines by then, so don't sweat it.

[ 20. June 2005, 12:44: Message edited by: PAB ]

Cool! Thanks for the good info from most of you. I'm not sure if I missed a point somewhere but I'm an AD pilot select...not Guard/Reserve. I'm not worrying about the airlines now. It was just a curiosity question. Thanks again to those that took the time to post answers.

Toro's just being realistic.

You still have to make it through Brooks MFS, UPT, training in whatever aircraft you end up flying...etc...etc.....Then, you have to be good at flying whatever aircraft. Qualified pilots have Q3'd which for some, ruins their careers. All of those hurdles have to be passed; unfortunately, some people do not pass them.

That's just the dark, ugly stuff. I brought up the same question while on casual waiting for UPT and what Toro said is what the pilots told me. They weren't busting my chops, just helping me keep priorities and focus in check. You had a good question - just keep in mind what Toro said in much fewer words than I did is good advice. It's realistic and keeps you on your toes. With that said, Congratulations on getting selected! I know it was one of the best days of my life when I got selected.

One X and one block at a time. Saves you from stepping on your crank.

I've heard it takes longer to upgrade in AFSOC. Is that accurate? Is this due to over manning, mission complexity, or other factors?

AFSOC aircraft have minimum hour requirements in the right seat (or left for you helo bubbas) just like everyone else. Slightly more hours for some airframes (mission complexity is a definite issue), but there are waivers for many things. It really boils down to this: your squadron will prep and send you to AC upgrade WHEN YOU ARE READY. Not everyone is ready to upgrade to AC when the hands of the clock point in the appropriate direction. Some folks need a little extra time in the right seat before going to AC school. There are some copilots that fly well enough, and have the decision making ability to be AC's with only a few hundred hours, and others that, well... not so much. Any good squadron is not going to send a weak candidate to AC school that will stand a chance of busting rides and getting sent home. So, get through training, be the best, start logging PIC time, and things will happen in a logical order. [That being said, you are wise to ask these questions. Know thy regulations and take charge of your own training. If you fall through the cracks, it's your own fault.]

Toro, you're mean. You don't know what you're talking about. You don't know what it's like to be trying to become a fighter pilot and an airline pilot someday. It is perfectly reasonable for a guy to be thinking about the airlines before he has even begun his 11 year (minimum) journey as an Air Force pilot.

You're a crappy moderator. I'm going to vote you some crappy number of stars now.

You're right - I ought to stop being so mean. I'll turn over a new leaf by bringing some milk and cookies to my students today.