Flight Engineer ?s

[Guest TheRhino]

I'm currently an FE on E-3's. I would say its better than anything I expected. Previously i was a Crew Chief on KC-135's. Most have a maintenance back ground but not all. We have a former Med Tech tkae is doing great as an engineer. The only guys who become engineers right out of basic are helicopter guys. Im not sure what boom means when he says engineers are being phased out. True they dont make aircraft with engineers anymore, but as long as we have aircraft that require then we are not going anywhere. The current aircraft wont ever be modified to fly without eng's. The engineer pipeline was recently changed so that you will go to EAUC, then the basic engineer coarse both at Lackland. The Altus Engineer class moved there. Then you will go to your required survival classes. As an engineer you will be TDY alot. AWACS WAS the least deployed, but now we expect to see about 180 to 220 days a year. I would recommend giving cross training a shot. Let me know if you want any specific info.

[craino21]

FEs definitely aren't going anywhere in the helo community. The CV-22 has FEs and the CSAR-X will have FEs... or at least a combination FE/Aerial Gunner position. If you want I can put you in contact with some of out HH-60 FEs, shoot me a PM.

[stract]

they turned off the NPS pipeline for helo FEs, but it's still there for gunners. Supposedly, as Craino alluded to, the "Gungineer" merger will be announced within the next 6 months or so. Doesn't really change anything for FEs, but Gunners will get trained up to FE knowledge/application standards.

[Guest danatori]

Thanks for all the great info. You're replies helped alot more than I expected. Just a couple more...

1) What do FE's do as an occupation when they separate/retire from the AF?

2) Most FE's are retrainees...what jobs did you all have before retraining as FE? What points about the FE job appealed to you enough to retrain.

3) For the married guys/women: Were you married before you retrained as FE, and if so, how was the transition for your wife/husband? Was the transition difficult for your children? (I have a 3 year old and a 17 month old, both girls)

Thanks again for all your help,

-SSgt Young

[Mambo]

1) What do FE's do as an occupation when they separate/retire from the AF?

Go fishing, drink beer and tell stories about how copilots tried to kill them. There isn't much of a market out there for civilian FE's. I believe UPS and FedEx still use them on the older 747's and DC-10's. I don't think any passenger carrying airlines use them anymore. Alot of guys get out and go to guard/reserve units. There are some GS jobs available at the schoolhouse but that is all about timing and who you know. Or you could invest all of your TDY money wisely and retire with a nice little nest egg.

2) Most FE's are retrainees...what jobs did you all have before retraining as FE? What points about the FE job appealed to you enough to retrain.

I was flight line avionics on F-111's and F-15's. I had no idea about FE's till I was going to be force crosstrained to F-16's (which meant Kunson/Cannon rotation, no thanks). It was the only other job available so I took it and don't regret one day as an FE. For me it's the flying and working with a crew getting the mission done that is most appealing.

3) For the married guys/women: Were you married before you retrained as FE, and if so, how was the transition for your wife/husband? Was the transition difficult for your children? (I have a 3 year old and a 17 month old, both girls)

I was married when I retrained, but my wife is military also so she knew what to expect. I would guess it would be the same as any PCS, except you'll be TDY for a few months while you attend the different schools. If your wife can handle you being deployed now, then it shouldn't be a problem. Again it all depends on the airframe/base that you get as to how much you are gone. In C-130's most guys deploy at least 4 months out of 12, some guys have done 2 four month rotations in a year. Plus all the little 1 and 2 week TDY's that we do. AWACS is much more stay at home friendly. I'm sure some of the KC-10 and C-5 guys can enlighten you on their deployment schedules.

If you or your wife have any more questions feel free to PM me. Good luck.

[HerkDerka]

Go fishing, drink beer and tell stories about how copilots tried to kill them. There isn't much of a market out there for civilian FE's. I believe UPS and FedEx still use them on the older 747's and DC-10's.

I don't know about UPS, but Fed Ex's engineers are pilots. They work on a seniority program: start out as an SO, promote to FO, promote to Capt. I don't know if Fed Ex hires standard engineers.

C-130's most guys deploy at least 4 months out of 12, some guys have done 2 four month rotations in a year.

Nice sugar-coating.

HD

[JarheadBoom]

Go fishing, drink beer and tell stories about how copilots tried to kill them. There isn't much of a market out there for civilian FE's. I believe UPS and FedEx still use them on the older 747's and DC-10's. I don't think any passenger carrying airlines use them anymore. Alot of guys get out and go to guard/reserve units. There are some GS jobs available at the schoolhouse but that is all about timing and who you know. Or you could invest all of your TDY money wisely and retire with a nice little nest egg.

There's a bunch of cargo carriers that fly legacy 747's that still have an FE panel; here's a few to start with:

- Atlas

- Gemini Cargo

- Evergreen

- Kalitta Airways

One of my A&P school instructors was a retired P-3 FE; got an offer from Atlas, and is now flying with them.

[Guest danatori]

Can I choose what airframe I want to go to, or is it based on AF needs?

[Guest Boom]

You can put down what you want but overall it'll come to the needs of the Air Force on what you get.

I put down C-17 Loadmaster when I retrained, I got KC-135 Boom.

[bomber1]

I'm currently trying to retrain into flight engineer. I have the right feeder AFSC of 2A571 and meet all other requirements. You would think the selection process would be fast and simple...WRONG!! It took over 4 months to submit my package and now AFPC tells me it will take another 4 months to review and approve/disapprove my application. Does it normally take this long? Does anybody have any guidance or suggestions on how to speed up the process?

Edited October 14, 2007 by bomber1

[Guest Boom]

The four month process is having three boards factored in. When I retrained you hit a board each month if you're not picked up (at the time it was only three months/three boards though). If you're picked up on your first board then it's a crapshoot on how long it takes to have EAUC/Survival/Water Survival/BFE/FTU training loaded in the system. Plus realize that before AFPC even sees your package it has to go up to the functional manager for your AFSC at the MAJCOM/HQ.

To give you a general time line I submitted my retraining package while deployed in November '05, was picked up to retrain to be a Boom January '06, and started school (which was supposed to be later but had a last minute cancellation) May '06. To speed up the process I would continue to follow up with the MPF since 100% of them are retards and if they can give YOU the POC information for the NCO's that work for the functional at the MAJCOM since they have to review your package and if it's good they're the ones who send it to AFPC.

[HerkFE]

I know the process for AD is different than for the Guard/Reserves but for me (a Reservist) the hardest part of becoming an FE was the medical process. Not that I had medical problems but the medical "administrative" process was the most frustrating thing I've ever experienced in my 20 yrs in the military. I was one of the fortunate ones in that mine only took about nine months. We have a new FE in my squadron and it took 18 months to get his Class III approved. Hang in there, it is worth the pain.

[Guest Sparky]

I'm currently trying to retrain into flight engineer. I have the right feeder AFSC of 2A571 and meet all other requirements. You would think the selection process would be fast and simple...WRONG!! It took over 4 months to submit my package and now AFPC tells me it will take another 4 months to review and approve/disapprove my application. Does it normally take this long? Does anybody have any guidance or suggestions on how to speed up the process?

If it were a short/quick process...we would all be flying with a bunch of retards, just about anyone would be able to get in. Not to mention the fact that I have never (knock on wood) had a boom so much as even scratch the paint on my jet, and as squirly as i get behind you guys...that is saying something. I feel pretty good/confident in the fact that you guys have such a tough selection process.

Oh yeah...and on the matter of us pilots performing our "mill-around" checklist at PHIK....................Whaaaaa, Whaaaaa (sounds something like my 3 month old son)

Good night all!!

Sparky

[bomber1]

All right, all right, all right…my retrain application was approved!!! Status, awaiting allocation of class seats. Is there anybody out there who could tell me when I should expect a class date and how soon. AFPC likes to keep everything a secret until the last minute. Thanks in advance.

[Guest jtek]

Don't feel so bad, I'm right there with ya. Looks like we are in the same boat. I started my process in april. Sat at "code 3" for 2 months and just got my "code 5" notification yesterday. Were you an ETP case or are you in an overage afsc? Didnt know they had crewchiefs at Ft Gordon either btw. I'm close by also, at Robins in the CLSS. Mine was an ETP case and they told me I had a much lower priority than the constrained afsc guys so thats why it was taking so long.

To your question, AFCC tells me that on average you will not wait more than 6 weeks for class seat dates. This is supposedly the average time the functional folks need to line up classes. Have you used the MYstuff area on the afpc site? I have bugged the AFCC there maybe ten times so far with questions and they respond pretty fast. Nice folks, really helpful. There is also the AFCC 1800 number you can call to ask questions. They told me to update my question in the Mystuff area every 3 weeks or so to check in on it.

What airframe are you going to shoot for?

Good luck to ya. I'll post here when they give me my dates, maybe we'll be in the same class.

-J

[Guest Boom]

All right, all right, all right…my retrain application was approved!!! Status, awaiting allocation of class seats. Is there anybody out there who could tell me when I should expect a class date and how soon. AFPC likes to keep everything a secret until the last minute. Thanks in advance.

I was notified in January 2006 that I was selected to retrain. I received my classes start/end date in March 2006 along with my assignment RIP. I think you guys will know if you're fixed wing or rotary before you start retraining (I think rotary FE's don't attend BFE at Altus).

Note: If you're retraining and coming from overseas you'll PCS first to your gaining unit then start the retraining process.

Edited November 11, 2007 by Boom

[stract]

I think you guys will know if you're fixed wing or rotary before you start retraining (I think rotary FE's don't attend BFE at Altus).

Unfortunately for the helicopter community, all BFE (was BHFE for us) got consolidated at Altus this past year. Feedback from our IFs (Instructor Flight Engineers) both home station and at Kirtland is that this has made a lot more work for them having to retrain all the studs in the helo stuff before they hit the flightline. Has made the course longer, etc etc. Nobody in our community likes it.

[bomber1]

I just received my class dates. School starts 6 Jun 08. The course itinerary doesn’t mention EAUC. It only lists Fixed Wing FE Helper, FE Apprentice, Emergency Parachute Training, Combat Survival Training, and Water Survival. Is EAUC required for Crew Chiefs retraining into FE?

[Guest xtndr50boom]

EAUC is required for ALL enlisted aviators. As a cross trainee it should be a breeze

BTW, congrats on your selection!

[Guest Boom]

I just received my class dates. School starts 6 Jun 08. The course itinerary doesn’t mention EAUC. It only lists Fixed Wing FE Helper, FE Apprentice, Emergency Parachute Training, Combat Survival Training, and Water Survival. Is EAUC required for Crew Chiefs retraining into FE?

The "helper" class is EAUC, they just call it different names for all the various Enlisted Aviator careerfields. And I will tell you right off the bat from what I saw at Little Rock knowing a lot of 130 slick Flight Engineers and having a prior Crew Chief in my Boom class is being prior maintenance doesn't give you any advantage at all other than the fact you know what the various 781's look like and how a power cart works. And remember you know how to repair things, not necessarily how they operate in flight. Also realize that maintenance T.O.'s are written by a different person from operators T.O.'s. Be humble, don't assume you'll automatically ace everything due to your prior background. Good luck!

[Guest jtek]

Found a few really good retraining posts at the military.com forums.

All kinds of info I didnt know....like how your losing unit pays for new uniforms before you leave...and how some AD guys do BFE at the Rock.

heres the best one:

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tp...m/6980056031001

Hey Bomber, sent you a pm

[Guest jtek]

Found another post about retraining with some good info:

http://www.afforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8593

[169FE]

Anyone still actively reading this post? Don't want to revamp the topic in a new thread if I can get some answers from those in here who already know about or fly as an FE! I'm in the midst of flying as an FE on C-130Hs out of Illinois (hopefully). Thanks all.

[Learjetter]

What does "in the midst of...(hopefully) mean? Are you already a Herc FE...or are you trying to become one?

[169FE]

Thanks for the reply Gray Beard, I really appreciate it. I apologize for the 30,000 ft explanation there; let me break it down a little further. No sir, I am currently not an FE. I have been a maintainer in the Air National Guard for the past 10 years, and recently interviewed with the Ops Chiefs for an FE position on C-130Hs.

So far I've been offered the job, had my credentials reviewed and accepted by the National Guard Bureau, and completed by flight physical on base with medical. The Flight Doc said everything looked good, but what I understand now is that the medical packet or all of my information must go to the state now for final approval. I was looking to learn a little more about that process, how long this usually takes, and how to best prepare moving forward.

Some of the high-level questions I'm interested in are:

1. Duration from the time a packet is submitted, to when you actually leave for training? (I understand this may be a large window due to school house supply and demand, which I'm currently not sure of)
2. Ways to best prepare for being a great student while training?
3. Current training I may be attending and good reads on them (SERE, Water Survival, Initial 2 week course at Lackland, Basic FE Course/Specific Airframe at Little Rock, OJT, etc.)
4. Other good forums to read up on?
5. Any good reading material? Gouges? Available flight manuals, etc.

In general, I'm just looking for some guidance from people who know the field, have earned the right, and might be able to mentor me here along the way. Thank you again for the reply!

Edited January 17, 2014 by 169FE