Hi folks,

I was planning on retiring in January, but with the current state of affairs, it seems that would be an ill advised move. However, I am in a pickle. I am an AFRES O3 with 19.5 years of service. (8 yrs enlisted) I was passed over for O4 last year because of a lack of recent award, as well as a referral OPR from 2015 for a failed FTF. The career development section in my wing failed to inform me of when the 2020 O4 board was being held, and I again failed to obtain a recent award. (totally my fault, I was very blinded by my upcoming retirement) Now I am afraid that I will be passed over again.

My question is this: What are the repercussions for being passed over twice? What AFI can I look in to spell it out for me? I remember seeing something regarding retirement sanctuary, but I can't recall the details. Will I need to pursue a waiver of some kind to stay in? Will I get a 3rd look at O4?

Thanks for everyone's help. I hope you are all staying healthy and optimistic during these tough times.

Edited April 4, 20205 yr by Velosprints

I may have found the answer. Not the answer I was hoping for. 
 

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“10 U.S. Code § 631, § 632: O2s, O3s, and O4s (other than Navy and Marine Corps Limited Duty Officers) who have twice failed for promotion shall be discharged. If eligible for retirement, that officer is retired. If retirement eligibility is within 2 years, that officer is retained until eligible and then retired. Retirement or discharge in this manner is considered to be involuntary.

10 U.S. Code § 14504, § 14505, § 14506: Reserve O2s, O3s, and O4s who twice fail selection for promotion shall be discharged.

10 U.S. Code § 14513: Reserve O2s, O3s, and O4s who are removed from active status for failure of selection for promotion are transferred to inactive status if Service Secretaries determine that the officer has skills required for mobilization needs or to the Retired Reserve if the officer qualifies and does not request not to be transferred. Otherwise, the officer is discharged”

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While that is true, in recent years the Air Force has been so hurt for people they have been offering continuation.  I don't know what the magic number is for O-3, but a continued O-4 can serve 24 years of commissioned service.

Unfortunately, selective continuation for passed over O-3s is only to 20. Being retirement eligible makes it an even cleaner kill from an ARPC/NGB pov. There ain't gonna be a manning deficit any time soon I can tell you that much. My host AD unit is already overmanned as of the summer based on all the rescinded separation/retirement packets that have occurred in the past 3 weeks. Everybody is running back to Uncle sammy's teet, not enough chairs to go around. We all live and die by the dick swings of the airline industry, even those of us not part of the airlines.

100% chance of not getting what you don't ask for, so by all means ask the question and position yourself as best you can. Def get your PME done/award lined up if you have time, but mentally prepare to be invol retired. Good luck man.

 

 

Commissioned service according to you, you are only at shy of 12 years. Good for another 8 brah. Serve.

57 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Commissioned service according to you, you are only at shy of 12 years. Good for another 8 brah. Serve.

Excellent point. Provided he's continued. 

Is that a thing in the reserves for a captain? Sounds awful.

26 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Is that a thing in the reserves for a captain? Sounds awful.

What thing? Not getting promoted to O-4, or not getting continued?

How stringent are the AFRC LAF promotion boards for O4?  Everything I heard from my unit/base was to 1) Have SOS done and 2) No UIF in your record and the last few spreadsheets on VPC had ~95% promotion rates.

Did they specify what they meant by "no recent award" - type of award (AFCM/AFAM), or having one for each tour?

7 hours ago, Guardian said:

Commissioned service according to you, you are only at shy of 12 years. Good for another 8 brah. Serve.

Oh really? Did I read the code wrong? Are you sure it’s 20 years of commissioned service??

21 hours ago, Velosprints said:

I was passed over for O4 last year because of a lack of recent award, as well as a referral OPR from 2015 for a failed FTF.

 

Ok, I write OPRs (ANG), but what does lack of recent award mean?  As in, not getting some kind of made up, BS award of the year or qtr?  That is a thing?  I can understand a referral OPR, but even then, that's been 5 years ago now.  Add this to the list of reasons why I tell all my AD buddies to go to the ANG over AFRES...especially reserve units embedded in an AD Wing on an AD base.

 

3 hours ago, Velosprints said:

Oh really? Did I read the code wrong? Are you sure it’s 20 years of commissioned service??

 

I've wondered this as well.  I was prior-E and have told two different things by two different commanders.  

13 hours ago, Guardian said:

Is that a thing in the reserves for a captain? Sounds awful.

Getting continued just means you are allowed to stay for that length of time.  It doesn't carry a commitment that forces you to stay for the whole thing.

14 hours ago, Milton said:

How stringent are the AFRC LAF promotion boards for O4?  Everything I heard from my unit/base was to 1) Have SOS done and 2) No UIF in your record and the last few spreadsheets on VPC had ~95% promotion rates.

Did they specify what they meant by "no recent award" - type of award (AFCM/AFAM), or having one for each tour?

I wanna say they wanted to see a recent AFCM. But this is all speculation. I learned this after I called for my “post board counseling.” I had asked if anything jumped off the paper as reasons to why I got passed over, and the lady at ARPC said it’s was lack of medal and that referral. She wasn’t on the board, so she couldn’t say for sure. 

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Getting continued just means you are allowed to stay for that length of time.  It doesn't carry a commitment that forces you to stay for the whole thing.

Is getting continued a hard thing to do? 

25 minutes ago, Velosprints said:

Is getting continued a hard thing to do? 

Depending on your specialty, not right now.  Knew a couple continued O-3s and dozens of continued O-4s.

2 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Depending on your specialty, not right now.  Knew a couple continued O-3s and dozens of continued O-4s.

Oh thank god. Good news. Thanks!

Yeah. Go out. Get a few awards. Try to be a yes man or be what your boss needs, get promoted and you will be able to go the distance no problem.

Right now as a captain, according to your stats provided, you should be able to go to 28 years total service legally if continued.

Yes. Commissioned service. What if you did like 14 years as an E, commissioned, then as a 2 year captain they could boot you out if it is not commissioned service.

5 hours ago, Velosprints said:

I wanna say they wanted to see a recent AFCM. But this is all speculation. I learned this after I called for my “post board counseling.” I had asked if anything jumped off the paper as reasons to why I got passed over, and the lady at ARPC said it’s was lack of medal and that referral. She wasn’t on the board, so she couldn’t say for sure. 

Interesting.  I tried pushing one through just before the most recent Maj board but its stuck in "review"...hopefully having a deployment dec from ~3 yrs ago made them happy.  Now I'm a little worried.

Not sure if the new promotion competitive categories will help/hurt, but Sq/CCs can sign off on AFCMs now (at least in AFRC) so less time waiting for an O6 to sign.  

I'm guessing the covid19 crisis will delay SAF approval/public release of the most recent board. 

 

3 hours ago, Guardian said:

Yes. Commissioned service. What if you did like 14 years as an E, commissioned, then as a 2 year captain they could boot you out if it is not commissioned service.

No.  Commissioned service counts differently.

No.  Commissioned service counts differently.

Huh? Not sure what you are saying

27 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Huh? Not sure what you are saying

I'm not sure what you're saying with the booting someone as a two-year captain.  The question was in regards to DOPMA and being passed over twice.  If you have 14 years enlisted, you'll be at about 24-25 years total before you're even up for major, let alone passed over twice.

Edited April 6, 20205 yr by pawnman

A 2 year captain is 6 years in. 6 plus 14 is 20. It is another example to his original question of how 20 years total service enlisted and commissioned wouldn’t make sense.

Ok, so for a continuance, does that mean I’ll end up retiring as a career O3? No more O4 looks?

Sorry this is so late, but I did end up getting selected for O-4. (Thank goodness) With my furlough notice in hand, now I’m wondering if O-5 is in the cards! 🤣🤣