November 19, 20178 yr I'm hearing ARC fighter units are being told their 900 days of seasoning orders for new guys are getting cut to something low like 140 days now. Any insight out there into how official this is or likely to stick around?
November 19, 20178 yr 900 days? Holy shit. Side note, why can I say shit but not ? Ops test: ass, , cock, bitch, .
November 20, 20178 yr 4 hours ago, Kenny Powers said: 900 days? Holy shit. Side note, why can I say shit but not ? Ops test: ass, , cock, bitch, . Back in my day..... it was 1095
December 17, 20177 yr From what I gathered out of the AFRC A3RB sharepoint is that now they are doing the TDART program which goes like this: OTS, IFS, UPT, IFF, B course, Land Survival, Water survival, then they give you ~140 days of orders (to get you PCS'd to the unit). After that they hire you on (overhire position) for 4 years as an ART. You start at a GS9 then hit GS11 after 300 hrs, and then GS13 after 1000 hrs. I'm not sure if they are counting all your flight hours or just mil. So the end result is you are full time for 6 years from the beginning of your formal training (OTS, UPT, IFS depending on where you start) but you get paid less than you would be if you were on orders... This program is voluntary according to the policy memo dated 1 dec 16. This seems to be an AFRC only thing. Not sure what the guard is doing. Details are on the A3RB sharepoint under 340 FTG link. Edited December 17, 20177 yr by va121mir
December 19, 20177 yr AFAIK all our young guys (ANG) get 508 days of seasoning once they get done with MQT.
December 19, 20177 yr I in-processed at Randolph this week with the 340th FTG and they were saying 140 days. Can confirm the TDART program as well.
January 12, 20187 yr On 12/17/2017 at 10:37 AM, va121mir said: From what I gathered out of the AFRC A3RB sharepoint is that now they are doing the TDART program which goes like this: OTS, IFS, UPT, IFF, B course, Land Survival, Water survival, then they give you ~140 days of orders (to get you PCS'd to the unit). After that they hire you on (overhire position) for 4 years as an ART. You start at a GS9 then hit GS11 after 300 hrs, and then GS13 after 1000 hrs. I'm not sure if they are counting all your flight hours or just mil. So the end result is you are full time for 6 years from the beginning of your formal training (OTS, UPT, IFS depending on where you start) but you get paid less than you would be if you were on orders... This program is voluntary according to the policy memo dated 1 dec 16. This seems to be an AFRC only thing. Not sure what the guard is doing. Details are on the A3RB sharepoint under 340 FTG link. Interesting...I was told that "forced ART" program died when they realized they couldn't legally force someone to stay in a civilian job.... To add to the confusion our unit has been cutting 7 month Prog tours (granted we are a heavy unit though)...
January 16, 20187 yr Interesting...I was told that "forced ART" program died when they realized they couldn't legally force someone to stay in a civilian job.... To add to the confusion our unit has been cutting 7 month Prog tours (granted we are a heavy unit though)...This is hilarious. I am dumbfounded as to how it was even thrown on the table as a viable option without someone calling BS before it got that far. Never-the-less, it's at least good to see (or not) how AFRC values their new pilot graduates by throwing them a GS-9 job. We've got enlisted positions with higher pay scales than that. It should be GS-12 at a minimum. They start Public Affairs officers in the GS-11 to GS-12 range. There are 171 open pilot positions on USA jobs right now ranging from GS-12 to GS-15. I wonder why. I remember the day when there about 3.
January 16, 20187 yr Yeah, GS-9 is not super exciting. Once I finish the training pipeline I'm looking at an $8,000 effective paycut going from O-1, <2 years, to GS-9. More, if what I've heard is true about having to take local residency while an ART and I lose my current no-income-tax-state residency. It's even worse when comparing O-2, >2 years, something like $20k difference. Guess it's a nice incentive to volunteer for lots of trips and deployments early on?
January 19, 20187 yr On 1/16/2018 at 8:48 AM, Gazmo said: On 1/12/2018 at 10:47 AM, HeyWatchThis said: Interesting...I was told that "forced ART" program died when they realized they couldn't legally force someone to stay in a civilian job.... To add to the confusion our unit has been cutting 7 month Prog tours (granted we are a heavy unit though)... This is hilarious. I am dumbfounded as to how it was even thrown on the table as a viable option without someone calling BS before it got that far. Never-the-less, it's at least good to see (or not) how AFRC values their new pilot graduates by throwing them a GS-9 job. We've got enlisted positions with higher pay scales than that. It should be GS-12 at a minimum. They start Public Affairs officers in the GS-11 to GS-12 range. There are 171 open pilot positions on USA jobs right now ranging from GS-12 to GS-15. I wonder why. I remember the day when there about 3. That's what is confusing me....we (an AFRC unit) were told that this idea died on the planning table because they realized they couldn't force someone to stay in a civilian job. I'm not sure if some wings are making it a handshake requirement or whatever but to my knowledge the original proposal at the headquarter level that had UPT hopefuls signing a contract saying they would be ARTs for 6 years after prog went away when the legalities of that demand were examined....
January 19, 20187 yr On 1/16/2018 at 1:36 PM, sforron said: Yeah, GS-9 is not super exciting. Once I finish the training pipeline I'm looking at an $8,000 effective paycut going from O-1, <2 years, to GS-9. More, if what I've heard is true about having to take local residency while an ART and I lose my current no-income-tax-state residency. It's even worse when comparing O-2, >2 years, something like $20k difference. Guess it's a nice incentive to volunteer for lots of trips and deployments early on? Plus paying about 300 a month for healthcare, and your federal tax liability goes up. Like I said.....foodstamps. Edited January 19, 20187 yr by matmacwc
February 5, 20187 yr I figured it out the other day that I would take home $40,000 more per year as an AGR right now and that doesn't even include the AGR bonus. Add to that the fact I'd never have to do another 16 hour day again to burn a double and wow....That being said we have plenty of upt grads that foam at the mouth when given the opportunity to grab an ART job. They get near 6 figures or above to build a flight time and go to the airlines. It's perfect for them.
February 25, 20187 yr What’s the latest with this? My situation is I’ll be going on mil leave from a major airline to go to UPT/IFF/B course/seasoning. I was an O3, almost an O4 in my previous life, so I anticipate making O4 at the end of my B course or right when I get back to my unit from training. I just signed an AFRES contract, but haven’t yet started UPT, saying I am obligated to the standard UFT commitment, as well as 6 years in a full time status, with the first 2 in AGR status for initial training, then the rest for seasoning as either TDART or AGR based on needs of the AF Reserve. Am I going to be forced to resign from my $200k-$300k airline job to be a GS9, and/or give up seniority/longevity since I’ll be a TDART? What are the chances of the unit getting AGR orders for me? Can I pick up deployments to get some AGR or full time orders? Usually mil leave seems like an easy thing, but this new TDART thing is throwing a wrench in my plans. If I have to give up O4 pay and seniority at a major airline to be a GS9, it’s going to be one expensive move to get back in the military.
February 25, 20187 yr I'd go and worry about it later, the ART program sucks donkey balls plus you can't do mil leave as an ART, only an AGR. Excel in UPT, and toward the middle//end, start beating the war drums that you can't accept an ART position due to being an airline guy, they'll get it if they don't already. The airline job you have already might be your saving grace.
February 26, 20187 yr Yeah, they made it clear in the briefing the 340th gave us that they couldn't force you to do the TDART deal. And, there's always the possibility of it being scrapped for an AGR gig by the time you graduate.
February 26, 20187 yr They can’t make TDART a required obligation. They did change the minimum hours for each GS grade back in Nov. Yes, start GS9 but now 300 hours required for GS11(which most guys/gals should have after UPT/FTU/Seasoning). GS12 at 750. Regardless, I wouldn’t worry about it.
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