FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

[jrobe]

Had a buddy Friday get the Place Chase approved email...

6 months early before his UPT ADSC was up

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[BitteEinBit]

Brilliant.

I'm not going to say I agree with the people freaking out on the AFPC FB page, but I can understand. It can be tough to get out, even if you're ready. Big change and all. Nothing worse than making that decisions.. and then being told to wait, trying to line up jobs and all that. Got a buddy going through it right now. He can't make any decisions and he's terrified they'll approve it last second after a few job offer windows have closed.

I'd say there are about 157 separated Majors (some Lt Col now) who would say there is something worse than making a decision to get out and then having to wait...and that is: making the decision to stay and being told without notice that you have to get out in 6 months and not having any jobs lined up. I guess it is all about perspective. I do find it ironic that the AF is quick to kick people out when they want to stay, but hold on as tight as they can when people want to leave. Wouldn't it make sense to let the people go who you know want to leave anyway rather than cutting to the bare minimums and keeping the people who you still know want to leave anyway? Where is the logic? I really don't know if I should laugh or not...because it is very comical to say the least.

The icing on the cake: The former SAPR Lt Col heading this process up. Someone please tell me that is a joke because I really want to laugh at that one....

I've summed this up to the Air Force spending most of the last 5-6 years focusing on "looking" good but not really "being" good at what we are supposed to do (I'm specifically talking about AFPC). When it comes time to perform, we fail miserably. But, I'll be my left nut those bubbas and bubbettes at AFPC "look" damn good fucking this up. I can just see the resumes now...minus the repeating negative outcomes of course.

[chizz]

funny thing, if they broke up 365s into 60-120 day deployments, you know how many guard reserve units would play? you know how many people would volunteer for them? instead they have to resort to this deployment schedule via the excuse that continuity and readiness requirements dictate it. i feel like the unit climate assessments are more of a tool to implement community practices we hate. oh you dont like CBTs? here is more of them, you dont like 365s? thats what all deployments will be like in the future, you dont like sitting at a desk all day? well we are stripping all flying hrs, all training will be done in a sim now

I agree Altus, people think publicly bitching about this process will actually make it better or improve their situation or that knowing that someone got approved means they are going to. at least here it is more of an SA builder and place to vent so we dont drink ourselves into a stupor every night. but i will say, the amount of productivity towards my wings mission is significantly diminished. now i just search the web for jobs, work on my resumes and apps to places and constantly try to track my CMS case, hopefully i will be able to get on with my life soon

jrobe, what unit did your buddy get hired on with and how long did his PC app process take if you dont mind asking him, also did he apply under the 1-1 or 2-1 program?

[Guest nsplayr]

but i will say, the amount of productivity towards my wings mission is significantly diminished. now i just search the web for jobs, work on my resumes and apps to places and constantly try to track my CMS case, hopefully i will be able to get on with my life soon

I've seen this come up in several posts in this thread in particular. I don't know you chizz so nothing personal but /rant on

Are you guys fucking serious? I hope there is a good bit of "10% truth" when dudes claim that their productivity has plummeted and all they do is job surf and check AFPC systems.

I 7-day opted an assignment, got sent anyways and am currently navigating the Palace Chase process; I get it...hell I think anyone with half a brain thinks this force management process (and many things about the Air Force) is totally fucked. But come on, there's still a job to do and I signed on the dotted line to do it. No one has been stop-lossed or has missed a paycheck.

If anyone who worked for or with me stopped doing their job and was constantly job searching while at work, they wouldn't be slacking off for very long. Be an officer, nut up and give the job your all until the day you hang it up, whether that's 20+ or just until your most lengthy sentence is served. Serious question: do guys claiming they're basically ROAD not feel responsible for their units mission or mentoring younger guys to take their place? Where I come from both of those things are important and full-time jobs unto themselves.

All this might be a minority opinion but it needs to be said...hopefully by front line supervisors and Commanders and not just some guy in the internet. /rant off

Edited March 30, 2014 by nsplayr

[chizz]

not taken personal at all and you are correct, 10% truth and of course I am not going to miss a suspense or submit crap work, just makes more work for other people and thats not my motto, i try to make peoples job easier if i can. but i also find it more interesting reading everyone's situation vs. developing another COA for the OG that will never get implemented (thats why there is a door to the office) and with 5 ADOs in the office, there really isnt much that I cant chaff off to the guy who kinda gives a damn.

and there is plenty of mentoring going on to the CPs, i am always going to tell them what i f00ked up and how to not make the same mistakes and how to prepare for this storm when it comes their time. if we just let them figure it out on their own then they are going to end up like the people we dont want to work with. thats why I wanted to be a t-6 IP vs a t-1 IP, i wanted them young (STS) so i could teach them how to fly like i wanted them to fly, before they were tainted.

And I forgot to say, trunk monkey, you have a 7 day suspense, so its either 7 day opt or sign is my impression.

[myballshurt]

Anyone else get this gem? Is it just me or does it sound like if you ask any questions about your future that has been on hold for the last 3 month, they will conviently loose your request?

Subject

---------------------------------------------------------------

Retirement Request

Discussion Thread

---------------------------------------------------------------

Response Via Email(myPers - Total Force Service Center) - 03/27/2014 04:39 PM Sir/Ma'am

Please refrain from making any inquiries on the status of your case prior to receiving a response from HQ AFPC. Doing so will cause your case to change to an incorrect status and you will no longer be in the correct status for the final Approval/Disapproval decisions.

Your assistance in this matter is greatly appreciated

Very Respectfully,

HQ AFPC Retirements & Separations Branch

Yup...my heart stopped beating for about 20 seconds then I nearly shit myself. Dude I do not want to go out like that.

[aerobat95]

Yup...my heart stopped beating for about 20 seconds then I nearly shit myself. Dude I do not want to go out like that.

And people wonder why there is workplace violence.....sounded like a threat that directly impacts you and your family....hate to say it but I'd go down fists a flying if someone threatens me or my family......sounds like a good time to file that IG complaint or maybe forward that little gem with all the other bs that is going on to Air Force Times.....

[myballshurt]

I've seen this come up in several posts in this thread in particular. I don't know you chizz so nothing personal but /rant on

Are you guys ######ing serious? I hope there is a good bit of "10% truth" when dudes claim that their productivity has plummeted and all they do is job surf and check AFPC systems.

I 7-day opted an assignment, got sent anyways and am currently navigating the Palace Chase process; I get it...hell I think anyone with half a brain thinks this force management process (and many things about the Air Force) is totally ######ed. But come on, there's still a job to do and I signed on the dotted line to do it. No one has been stop-lossed or has missed a paycheck.

If anyone who worked for or with me stopped doing their job and was constantly job searching while at work, they wouldn't be slacking off for very long. Be an officer, nut up and give the job your all until the day you hang it up, whether that's 20+ or just until your most lengthy sentence is served. Serious question: do guys claiming they're basically ROAD not feel responsible for their units mission or mentoring younger guys to take their place? Where I come from both of those things are important and full-time jobs unto themselves.

All this might be a minority opinion but it needs to be said...hopefully by front line supervisors and Commanders and not just some guy in the internet. /rant off

Everyone has a different outlook for different reasons, your outlook is as respectable as the other guys. Some of us are spent, broken, kaput: mind, body and soul...My username is literal, as for the three midget hookers...on my bucket list? Shit posted here is so we can bitch and moan, joke and bullshit. It is a sanctuary for those of us who have practiced the fine, time honored art of bitching and moaning for so many years with good ing reason. Do not be so blind to see not everyone is going to get out and be able to utilize their ATP, 5 type ratings, Aviation Masters + Bachelors, take care of their family, sleep soundly and wake up refreshed, etc etc...some of us lost it all because a billion zillion tards either lined their pockets or got promoted. I signed up with the understanding I would not be deceived nor forgotten, pretty sure that is not the case. With a little research I could show at least 300K+ ture Americans, from within the last 10 yrs, likely feels the same way as I do and the number is growing. Even after everything I still give it my all everyday; but that does not mean a whole lot these days now does it? So one has to ask; where will YOU draw the line and say " it"? I do not even know you but hope you never have to draw that line. Do the rest of us a favor and just knock it off. If you are not sure what knock if off means then you are probably in the wrong blog.

[Bender]

Even after everything I still give it my all everyday; but that does not mean a whole lot these days now does it? So one has to ask; where will YOU draw the line and say "fuck it"?

Please come back and post on this thread every time your new civilian employer tells you to go eat a bag of dicks and you quit because you're being oppressed by the man (again).

Do the rest of us a favor and just knock it off. If you are not sure what knock if off means then you are probably in the wrong blog.

Hello Pot...Have you met my friend, Kettle.

Bendy

[TrunkMonkey]

And I forgot to say, trunk monkey, you have a 7 day suspense, so its either 7 day opt or sign is my impression.

Normally true (as far as I know), however I still have a year of ADSC for my GI-Bill Transfer and past experience tells me that they will leave me alone for a month or two (I did this once before when I refused an assignment...to Altus of all places but I still had ADSC remaining, and they shipped me out to Altus anyway).

Am I gambling? You bet. Am I losing? Nope, because I still have a TERA package in and I figure no commander in their right mind would try and enforce the assignment in the middle, especially since the assignment RNLTD is not until Jan '15. Oh, and signing agrees to a 2 year ADSC...

What I am mulling over now...is that they could possibly deny my TERA and then tell me that since I did not accept the assignment in 7 days that I have to get out. That is not very likely though, since they would have had to deny my TERA (because they need me on that wall) and they would have to waive a year of ADSC. I cannot imagine AFPC would do that, even with the foolishness of today.

Edited March 30, 2014 by TrunkMonkey

[2grps]

I'm often surprised at how many people have been brainwashed into the "shut up and color" mentality. If the majority continues to act like nothing is happening by continuing to do as you're told, then nothing will ever change. Instead of degrading those that are dealing with he RIF, TERA, etc, how about the majority join in and demand answers as well. Wait I know why that doesn't happen... It's because no one wants to rock the boat and cause themselves to miss out on that strat...let's face it... Nothing will ever change.

[aerobat95]

To all you guys who are critical of the bitching....remember this. The civilian world does not deploy you to shitholes for years on end. They also don't typically force you to move. You can look for another job and then quit when you find another. Sure are there problems in the civilian world...heck yes. The difference is you have way more control and freedom over your life.

I'm often surprised at how many people have been brainwashed into the "shut up and color" mentality. If the majority continues to act like nothing is happening by continuing to do as you're told, then nothing will ever change. Instead of degrading those that are dealing with he RIF, TERA, etc, how about the majority join in and demand answers as well. Wait I know why that doesn't happen... It's because no one wants to rock the boat and cause themselves to miss out on that strat...let's face it... Nothing will ever change.

You and I were thinking the same thing.....I'm not afraid to rock the boat....and do so every chance I get these days

[albertschu]

You'd think so, wouldn't you? Unfortunately it's just not true. I just finished a round of Congressional inquiry (8 Congressional offices, to be exact) for a different issue, and I can tell you that unless the Congressman/woman takes personal interest in your case it'll just be a bureaucratic exercise that wastes your time. You'll deal with a VERY low-tier person in the Congressional office who has no power or motivation. That person has to deal with an entire AF office dedicated to answering Congressional inquiries, and believe me when I tell you they work very hard to avoid real answers. It's like working a claim with an insurance company that doesn't want to pay out, only more shady. It doesn't matter if you're right, even with the AFIs on your side.

Now if ALL of us did this, maybe there'd be some impact, but that isn't going to happen either. It's like saying we're all going to rebel against the SOS in correspondence as an informal prereq for residence by refusing to take ANY SOS tests in correspondence. If everyone does that, would they simply cancel the In-res classes? Nope. They'd fill them anyway. But there will always be the careerist douchecopter who sees the situation as an opportunity to set himself apart from the crowd and just do one test, and the situation will revert within a few weeks.

In short, an email from you would be ALL OVER the AF in a matter of hours, and get lots of attention. Unfortunately, it'll also get YOU lots of attention--and not the kind of attention you want. It's as close to falling on one's sword as we can get these days. I doubt any of us consider that worth it.

FYI. We got a response back from an inquiry started in our squadron. Zero bureaucracy. Zero time waste. (For us).

Edited March 30, 2014 by albertschu

[chim richalds]

If what y'all are saying is true, the FY14 Force mgmt program is being run by a guy who slaps asses at bars and hits on trannies. God bless this country.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/13/lt-col-jeffrey-krusinski-military-sexual-assault/3518113/

and for God's sakes, let that dude vent, let us know when you all come down from the cross and can sport bitch on here again.

Edited March 30, 2014 by chim richalds

[Mountain]

Bender, gearpig, and BeerMan-

Though I've only been posting on this forum for a couple months, I've been reading along for years. I've usually found your opinions and insights well thought out. Today I'm surprised to see such ignorance from you.

A guy comes on here and says he's been pushed to the brink, and your response was to call him names and accuse him of resorting to "melodrama" (BTW, it's one word, BM). If your responses indicate the way in which you actually approach leadership and officership, then I pity and hapless soul who might be under your command. Do you have ANY idea what mbh's story is? Did you ask? Or did you take advantage of someone who's struggling with life and the AF in order to presume to grandstand and impress all of us lesser officers with your divine leadership philosophy?

Thank God this medium allows you to type out your thoughts for the rest of us, because if you had to speak them aloud the only noise would be the sound of gurgling General semen. Get off your high horses and consider whether perhaps thinking like yours is part of the problem.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Mountain

[TrunkMonkey]

Your hate is strong, let it flow through you...it seems the word I am looking for is douchecopter - kudos to the creator of that one.

AFPC has won, we have devolved into bitching at ourselves.

Perhaps we should be pissed at the complete incompetence of this process and the system that WE begot...yep, we all are (or have been) a part of it and thus our tolerance of the incompetence past and/or present makes us just as culpable for this system as all of our leaders are.

[TnkrToad]

//sarcasm// You must be new. //sarcasm off// Once a process like this has the flood gates open, leadership will fight tooth and nail to keep it open. How else will people get combat desk experience if they turn off the 365s? The same thing happened with deployments out of Mildenhall back around 06-08. We started deploying to help out the super tanker wings cuz AFPC couldn't manage the new copilots coming out of UPT. It was only supposed to last for a year or two because we were flying 9+ lines per day with 12 jets. We weren't manned for deployments on top of that but we did it. Can't confirm but I'm assuming they're still deploying. Too many good opr bullets from deploying....

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

Not trying to pick on you, but for the tanker dudes on this forum, just want to correct a misunderstanding. The below is a bit of a rant, but I hope some will find it educational):

- Deploying crews from Mildenhall at that time is an example of the Air Force doing something right

- During the timeframe in question, Mildenhall planes and pilots were literally flying half as much as those in AMC . . . despite the fact that AMC units were getting flooded with copilots as well

- Prior to the decision to deploy crews (but not jets) from Mildenhall, the average pilot there--based on annual flying hour program and number of pilots--would fly about 150 hours per year in Mildenhall jets. The vast majority of the flying done by Mildenhall crews were local sorties, so TDY rates on a per-aircrew basis was insanely low. The jets weren't exactly overtaxed, either; they flew on average just over one hour per day

-- The "fix" for this was to put two copilots on each sortie, so one could log useless "Other" time, and hence double the flight hours that could otherwise have logged

- With the 80+ pilots sitting at Mildenhall (none of them deploying downrange--aside for individual taskings from the AEF Center), and such an abysmally low flying hour program for the number of pilots, deploying Mildenhall crews was way overdue

- I have trouble buying in to the notion that 80+ pilots (read 40+ pilot teams) were incapable of handling the pressure of 9+ sorties/day. This "extreme" number of daily sorties was only met on weekdays. Weekend requirements were far from onerous

- Based on my rough math, Mildenhall pilots--without the AOR deployments--could expect to fly less than a 3.0 sortie once a week (unless they hopped on an additional sortie to log Other time), and when said individual did go TDY, as indicated above the locales weren't all that bad

- Meanwhile, in mother AMC, crew dawgs were gone 180 days/year, sitting homeland defense alert when at home (in addition flying operational and training missions), and when they did deploy they generally went to crapholes. Their flying experience might have been too weighted toward standardized missions in the AOR, but at least they were flying real operational missions (not "operational" missions flown round-robin from home station to refuel German fighters)

-- Once Mildenhall took on the burden of deploying a meager amount of crews downrange, the average copilot might deploy on one 90-day deployment per year. That deployment would more than double the flying hours that said copilot would have gotten at home station

Bottom line: the notion that the Mildenhall pilots and aircraft situation was anything other than a gross waste of resources--both before and after supporting downrange requirements--is still poorly understood among tanker crews (at least those who got to enjoy the good life at Mildenhall)

Here's the real issue: the tankers at Mildenhall are owned by EUCOM (via USAFE), rather than TRANSCOM (via AMC).

- In the '06-'08 timeframe, EUCOM clung to its toys and people (Mildenhall tankers and crews), with the result that AMC aircraft and crews' utilization rates had to take up the slack that Mildenhall and (probably Kadena, although I don't know their story) could have helped take up. Mildenhall crews benefited from screwed up Combatant Command relationships

- If Mildenhall crews truly are getting crushed relative to their AMC peers (sounds suspect, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt), I assume that the same screwed up COCOM relationship is again to blame. The perception among Mildenhall crews that they are overworked can only be due to one of two reasons:

-- They really are overburdened relative to AMC crews, and USAFE/EUCOM staff are unwilling or unable to get additional people and planes CHOP'd to theater to meet requirements. Given that EUCOM staffs are largely populated by Army dudes, it wouldn't surprise me to hear that the EUCOM staff is tone deaf to reason and logic.

-- Mildenhall aircrew perceptions are inaccurate. USAFE/EUCOM staff can't get more people or planes into theater, because there's no logical basis for doing so. I don't know enough about the current situation to determine which of the two possibilities is more true

I know I'm just picking on Mildenhall, but I suspect that Kadena tankers and crews were just as grossly underutilized--if not worse--than Mildenhall ones during the '06-'08 timeframe (if not for long after that). I hope one day we'll finally figure out how to reasonably spread the pain among stateside and overseas based tankers (and other platforms, too).

NKAWTG,

Tnkr Toad

[Mountain]

FYI. We got a response back from an inquiry started in our squadron. Zero bureaucracy. Zero time waste. (For us).

Damn glad to hear it, brother. I got responses too, but they were non-answer answers. Very frustrating.

[HoHum]

Gents and ladies,

This moment of introspection has been interesting, but it's time to get crackin' again. 1 April was rumored to be a deadline....so everybody pimp your CCs and buddies at staff and see what the hell we can dig up before it trickles down the FSS chain.

FYI. We got a response back from an inquiry started in our squadron. Zero bureaucracy. Zero time waste. (For us).

Can you keep us posted on that? Could be interesting.

Edited March 30, 2014 by VSP or 365

[Altus Barbarosa]

To all you guys who are critical of the bitching....remember this. The civilian world does not deploy you to shitholes for years on end. They also don't typically force you to move. You can look for another job and then quit when you find another. Sure are there problems in the civilian world...heck yes. The difference is you have way more control and freedom over your life.

You and I were thinking the same thing.....I'm not afraid to rock the boat....and do so every chance I get these days

The civilian world doesn't pay to train you how to fly at no cost to yourself other than signing up for 10yrs, which is not a hidden requirement. If you want control and freedom then you shouldve gone to work in the civil sector. If you have to finish out your AF contract then do it with some f**king dignity for christs sake.

[2grps]

Altus,

Yep the 10 year ADSC is not a secret.... Makes you wonder how AFPC was unaware of that before they released a matrix stating that certain pilot year groups were eligible... and that it has taken this long to figure it all out. If leaders don't display anything close to dignity, then why should their subordinates? It's obvious that you can make it to the top without.... Just saying

Back to business... Has anyone heard when to expect VSP apps to be processed? I assume AFPC will bust the 1 April deadline for TERA.

Edited March 31, 2014 by 2grps

[Bender]

I'm often surprised at how many people have been brainwashed into the "shut up and color" mentality. If the majority continues to act like nothing is happening by continuing to do as you're told, then nothing will ever change. Instead of degrading those that are dealing with he RIF, TERA, etc, how about the majority join in and demand answers as well. Wait I know why that doesn't happen... It's because no one wants to rock the boat and cause themselves to miss out on that strat...let's face it... Nothing will ever change.

Act like nothing is happening? NOTHING IS HAPPENING. Isn't that the problem?

Hey, I feel for you (I thought I made that perfectly clear about 20 pages back). What exactly is it that you suggest I do (i.e. to "rock the boat") that I'm too afraid to do because it would cause me to miss out on that strat?

I'm not so sure you understand my personality even a little, brother. I would love to help all you guys out if I could...maybe I could call Tony Carr and see if he'd get involved for some publicity to your cause. Oh wait...

To all you guys who are critical of the bitching....remember this. The civilian world does not deploy you to shitholes for years on end. They also don't typically force you to move. You can look for another job and then quit when you find another. Sure are there problems in the civilian world...heck yes. The difference is you have way more control and freedom over your life.

You and I were thinking the same thing.....I'm not afraid to rock the boat....and do so every chance I get these days

Didn't you "want to see the world"? Maybe you got the outdated brochure that didn't have the current schedule and locales. There have only been slight modification to the bochure I got...circa 2003.

Honestly, I'm curious how you define "rock the boat"?

-hurtful words-

Dear lord, man. For the record, you can't get the Airman's Medal for coming to the aid of a stray on the internet. His civilian job won't be any different, and there is a decent likelyhood it will be worse. ...and if he wants nsplayr to "do us a favor and knock it off" (i.e. shut up because he disagrees with me), then he should just follow suit. You don't get to just tell the other guy to stop talking so you can win...both of them should either shut up or respect each others right to bitch as they please...disagreement or not.

By all means, back to "business"...please.

Bendy

[Warrior]

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[Mountain]

FWIW, I liked the "hurtful words" thing. Don't agree with the statement that followed, but that's cool too.

Agreed with Bender. "Back to business."

[chizz]

\.....sounds like a good time to file that IG complaint or maybe forward that little gem with all the other bs that is going on to Air Force Times.....

I've heard a ton of people balk about this, has anyone actually filed an IG complaint yet? If not, stop threatening it. If so, let's hear how it went down. I love how everyone turned on each other so quickly. AFPC on their 2 day vacation is probably sitting back, feet up, waiting for us to take care of this ourselves and then will claim credit.