Hey guys! I am going to be starting UNT at Little Rock sometime this year for slicks. I could not be happier and I am super-stoked about the prospect of low levels with NVGs or dropping stone cold killers into dark fields. However, I do not want to stay C-130s throughout my entire career and would like to see other USAF airframes. I loved the WSO portions of my training and Id like to be in the back of an F-15E or a B-1 one day. I definitely don't want to cross-train to UPT. Any thoughts on what rules and requirements there are for someone trying to switch their airframes say 2.5-3 years in?

what kinda crazy AFN commercials have you been watching lately?

Hey guys! I am going to be starting UNT at Little Rock sometime this year for slicks. I could not be happier and I am super-stoked about the prospect of low levels with NVGs or dropping stone cold killers into dark fields. However, I do not want to stay C-130s throughout my entire career and would like to see other USAF airframes. I loved the WSO portions of my training and Id like to be in the back of an F-15E or a B-1 one day. I definitely don't want to cross-train to UPT. Any thoughts on what rules and requirements there are for someone trying to switch their airframes say 2.5-3 years in?

You know Goose died right?

Seriously though, I could use some advice on this...

I would think that transferring out of 130s will be nearly impossible. Unless there is a need, the AF probably won't pay for you to go through another schoolhouse. You could probably transfer within the 130 community to Gunships or Talons (or any of the other Herc airframes), I am guessing that is a lot easier to do. Gunships and Talons are badass missions, just as good as B-1s or 15Es, just my opinion though. CH would probably have a better idea on this subject.

Edited April 24, 201213 yr by b52gator

I transferred from E-3s to BUFFs in early 2011. At the time, manning for 12Rs was over 100% (or so I was told) and 12Bs was in the 85% range. The E-3 community is projected to eliminate the nav position in about a decade, I was lucky enough to have three consecutive squadron commanders (ops squadron guy followed by his successor followed by the schoolhouse squadron commander that was doubly kind enough to let me go after only a year of instructing) and two consecutive OGs that were supportive. Your manning picture and level of leadership support may very. You do have on your side that it looks like the number of nav billets in the Herc world is on a downward slope.

As with anything else, kick ass at your primary job and look for opportunities (esp. non-traditional ones) as they develop. I got here by getting into a non-flying deployment working for a B-1 patch and bomber dudes at the Squadron, Group, and Wing level, working hard, and bugging my immediate supervisor about putting in a good word for me with the bomber functional at AFPC (he got the Group/Wing commander on my side, and got the Group commander to put in a good word for me at AFPC as well).

Thinking tactically, if I were you I'd try to get somewhere with both C-130Hs and CAF assets under the same roof and try to impress the CAF dudes. Dyess springs to mind (the Airlift Group is under the 7th Bomb Wing, and the 7th Bomb Wing Vice is a nav that crossflowed from KC-135s to B-1s in the '90s... although he will surely be gone by the time you're on the VML to leave your first ops assignment). Start with impressing your MAF bros first though. Wouldn't say anything about wanting to do something outside Herc world until you've been through an AEF cycle and have started paying your dues.

If 12M manning is where I think it is, you may have an easier time ultimately getting there via UPT (since the AFPC functionals generally don't keep people from competing for selection boards), but the road is there to crossflow as a nav, however narrow. Good luck.

Thinking tactically, if I were you I'd try to get somewhere with both C-130Hs and CAF assets under the same roof and try to impress the CAF dudes. Dyess springs to mind (the Airlift Group is under the 7th Bomb Wing, and the 7th Bomb Wing Vice is a nav that crossflowed from KC-135s to B-1s in the '90s... although he will surely be gone by the time you're on the VML to leave your first ops assignment). Start with impressing your MAF bros first though. Wouldn't say anything about wanting to do something outside Herc world until you've been through an AEF cycle and have started paying your dues.

Dyess will soon be all C-130J (no Navs), and with regard to your first sentence, that is not even close to being reality.

OP, Bloom where you are planted.

Dude, anyone "transfering" airframes these days is a super rare exception to the rule. Expect, plan and prepare to spend then next 1 to 19 years in the C-130 pending further force reductions and non-promote's to the next rank with resulting non-continuation. I.e. don't worry about what airplane your in...just be glad you have one at all.

And what's with the "I definitely don't want to cross-train to UPT" - Are you sure you are in the ame USAF flying community as me? Has no one punched the idiot out of you yet? When the hell did we start "cross-training" to UPT anyway.....this isn't some flippen desk job where you just learn to sit at a different window and ignore a different set of "customers"..

Dyess isn't going to be an option, unless you already have orders there. They are going to be fully J within the next year or two.

Listen to Disco when he says that you need to pay your dues. Don't walk in day 1 and say "Shit, I wish I was strike...airdrop sucks. I can't wait to crossflow." Someone will throat punch you. Keep in mind that IF you are able to go to another airframe, it's not going to happen right away. The best thing to do is to keep your eyes open for an opportunity. For instance, a lot of slick navs are going spec ops fairly easily, so that's something to keep in mind.

Make sure you go in with a good attitude. Sounds like you have no earthly clue what life is like in the slick world, so give it a shot before you decide it isn't for you. You may find that being on a crew is something you enjoy.

it would be easier to transfer to the front seat.. ie. get a upt slot and kick ass.

Dude, anyone "transfering" airframes these days is a super rare exception to the rule. Expect, plan and prepare to spend then next 1 to 19 years in the C-130 pending further force reductions and non-promote's to the next rank with resulting non-continuation. I.e. don't worry about what airplane your in...just be glad you have one at all.

And what's with the "I definitely don't want to cross-train to UPT" - Are you sure you are in the ame USAF flying community as me? Has no one punched the idiot out of you yet? When the hell did we start "cross-training" to UPT anyway.....this isn't some flippen desk job where you just learn to sit at a different window and ignore a different set of "customers"..

Really? Having a bad day are we....?

Wow everyone needs to relax. If you think I don't know much about the C-130 world yet, youre right. I absolutely dont. What I do know is that its what I dropped, so its probably not necessary to call people idiots on baseops. If you have advice (Thanks Disco_Nav) I appreciate it. If you dont, move right along. I definitely know the truly basic officership stuff you guys keep harping about (have a good attitude? be happy with what I have? No shit!). What I was asking in my original question is whether or not there are any rules for/against transferring airframes. Please read the original post before losing your collective minds. Thanks to all those that gave good advice!

Wow everyone needs to relax. If you think I don't know much about the C-130 world yet, youre right. I absolutely dont. What I do know is that its what I dropped, so its probably not necessary to call people idiots on baseops. If you have advice (Thanks Disco_Nav) I appreciate it. If you dont, move right along. I definitely know the truly basic officership stuff you guys keep harping about (have a good attitude? be happy with what I have? No shit!). What I was asking in my original question is whether or not there are any rules for/against transferring airframes. Please read the original post before losing your collective minds. Thanks to all those that gave good advice!

This ought to go well. I'm sure you'll get the advice you seek now.

What I was asking in my original question is whether or not there are any rules for/against transferring airframes.

No rules against Navs going to UAVs, they're always hiring.

Wow everyone needs to relax... so its probably not necessary to call people idiots on baseops. If you have advice (Thanks Disco_Nav) I appreciate it. If you dont, move right along...Please read the original post before losing your collective minds.

Fuck, this shit again?

If you ask strangers to take their personal time to give you advice, you take the good, the bad, and the ridiculous, and if you dont like it you keep your cake hole shut. You surrendered the right to complain when you went to the internet for help.

If you think I don't know much about the C-130 world yet, youre right. I absolutely dont.

So, you're saying you don't know about the mission, but you would rather do something else. In a former life I flew as a load on C-130s, it's an awesome mission. Don't wish you could do something different when you don't fully understand what the differences are. And don't whine like a little bitch when you don't like the advice, it makes you sound like a nav and you're not fully qualified yet.

Edited April 24, 201213 yr by itsokimapilot

Anything is possible, but you'll probably be sequencing direct to the next waypoint and heating up Hot Pockets for the pilots/engineer while playing a lot of Angry Birds on your phone......in the C-130.

Hey guys! I am going to be starting UNT at Little Rock sometime this year for slicks. I could not be happier and I am super-stoked about the prospect of low levels with NVGs or dropping stone cold killers into dark fields. However, I do not want to stay C-130s throughout my entire career and would like to see other USAF airframes. I loved the WSO portions of my training and Id like to be in the back of an F-15E or a B-1 one day. I definitely don't want to cross-train to UPT. Any thoughts on what rules and requirements there are for someone trying to switch their airframes say 2.5-3 years in?

If you want to fly low-level on NVGs, you'll want to go AFSOC. In slicks you get to 500A at night maybe once or twice a route. The rest of the time you might as well be IFR. And we don't actually get to drop stone cold killers into dark fields, only C-17s get to do that. Only problem is it's several miles away from the field they were supposed to be in.

Also, coming in day one saying this is cool but I don't want to do this my whole career is a terrible way to start. I've never seen a nav go anywhere but to Herks in AFSOC (your best shot), UPT, UAVS, or staff. I'd say your chances of going to a CAF assignment are slim to none.

Fuck, this shit again?

If you ask strangers to take their personal time to give you advice, you take the good, the bad, and the ridiculous, and if you dont like it you keep your cake hole shut. You surrendered the right to complain when you went to the internet for help.

2

Forgive me for trying to lighten up on you. Since you have decided to be a SNAN (is that a real thing?), BOHICA...

You obviously did not read carefully when I said to go in with a good attitude, maybe you did, but you showed ZERO SA by whining on baseops when someone pressed to test. I suggest that you take the next "2.5-3 years" to sit sideways, stare at the radar, and learn to never pass up an opportunity to STFU.

IMHO, the writing is on the wall as far as AFSOC goes.

They have effectively shut the door to U-28s to anyone outside of AFSOC, UPT only or from another AFSOC airframe. I'm not sure if the same construct applies to the 130 world in AFSOC but there definitely seems to be a shift from embracing other communities to raising our own. 6th SOS is the only exception I can think of.

There are more than a few examples of the few who have made the switch only to find out that they better be faster, better and stronger than the guy who has been here his whole career. I'm not trying to dissuade just saying that if career is important to you then the faster you get to AFSOC the better.

IMHO, the writing is on the wall as far as AFSOC goes.

They have effectively shut the door to U-28s to anyone outside of AFSOC, UPT only or from another AFSOC airframe.

When did this happen?

I have rx informal feedback from bros I have encouraged to come on down, the response was less than lukewarm. I'm not saying it can't happen but with manning levels finally reaching acceptable it is imaginable. OTOH CSO manning is atrocious so it is favorable for back seaters to get on board...but once we are healthy it probably will follow suit with the pilot side as well.

Fucking Navs.

You know Goose died right?

Yea, but Lt. Matthew Klemish lived! .4 seconds, the difference between life and death.

The best advice is you should have done better in nav school. It's like being with a fat chick, love the one you're with.