Women involved in SOF on the ground

[PapaJu]

http://www.military.com/news/article/female-special-operators-now-in-combat.html?ESRC=eb.nl

Interesting concept, I guess. Though I'm sure the equality crowd doesn't like the comment about not wanting them to fight their way in.

[nsplayr]

http://www.military.com/news/article/female-special-operators-now-in-combat.html?ESRC=eb.nl

Interesting concept, I guess. Though I'm sure the equality crowd doesn't like the comment about not wanting them to fight their way in.

IDK, I'm in the "equality crowd" and I don't really want any of our guys (or gals) fighting their way in to a target. Surprise & speed > gun battle. Generally works out better that way anyways WRT actually getting the target.

I've heard of this for some time, is this really new or just new on the SF side?

Edited June 29, 2011 by nsplayr

[Rifleman96]

I love how they continue to twist the truth to make it seem like women perform at the same level as the guys who actually kick the doors down. These women are merely in a support role just like any other soldier/airman/sailor that is attached to a SOF unit in a support capacity.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Rifleman96

[BFM this]

I love how they continue to twist the truth to make it seem like women perform at the same level as the guys who actually kick the doors down. These women are merely in a support role just like any other soldier/airman/sailor that is attached to a SOF unit in a support capacity.

oh I don't know, I think they were pretty up front about this being an augmentee thing, not the full up real deal. True, the headline was misleading though.

The Soldiers assigned to the Cultural Support Teams aren't required to endure all the training of a Ranger or SF trooper, but they do have to learn advanced weapons handling and even fast-roping. Through three separate nine-day assessments so far, the Special Warfare Center and School has about a 50 percent attrition rate, officials say. Those who make it go through a six-week training course that teaches the Soldiers regional culture, intelligence gathering and small-unit combat tactics, officials say.

[60 driver]

oh I don't know, I think they were pretty up front about this being an augmentee thing, not the full up real deal. .

Then it shouldn't be in the news.

At the risk of starting this argument again, the use of the word "operator" implies that they are in more than a support role. The headline was purposely misleading.

[nsplayr]

Eh...I am willing to give them a pass since they said "Women Special Operators." If you are in ops and assigned to USSOCOM, you are a special operator or SOF to me. Special operators conduct special operations, what else would you call it?

Being an "Operator" colloquially is obviously very different and I don't think the article implied that they were breaking necks or bear crawling up mountains like the bigfoot-ninjas we have out there. And if it was slightly on the sensational side, it's a headline, that's the idea I guess...

Overall, good on these ladies because debriefing/searching the chicks on the objective can be extremely valuable in a situation like this one where the primary target (senior IMU guy) put on a burka in an attempt to escape.

Edited June 30, 2011 by nsplayr

[BFM this]

At the risk of starting this argument again, the use of the word "operator" implies that they are in more than a support role. The headline was purposely misleading.

Valid. Whoever wrote the article throws around the word "operator" like everyone else uses warrior. I just would have been more incensed if the article had implied a full title or glossed over training and qualification differences.

[Guest]

IDK, I'm in the "equality crowd" and I don't really want any of our guys (or gals) fighting their way in to a target. Surprise & speed > gun battle. Generally works out better that way anyways WRT actually getting the target.

Huh? Stick to what you know.

FWIW, we're just copying best practices.

[busdriver]

This is no different than the female Marines providing interaction with female locals in south Afghanistan. These gals are not going to to be in the stack in a DA, nor will they out in the field for days on end in an SR mission. This is really nothing new, its been going on for years. The scale is probably the only new thing. That said, the integration at this level is a good thing, the operators at this level need some continuity as to who those ladies are, so they can train together and get better as a team.

[nsplayr]

Huh? Stick to what you know.

Huh?

This is no different than the female Marines providing interaction with female locals in south Afghanistan. These gals are not going to to be in the stack in a DA, nor will they out in the field for days on end in an SR mission. This is really nothing new, its been going on for years. The scale is probably the only new thing. That said, the integration at this level is a good thing, the operators at this level need some continuity as to who those ladies are, so they can train together and get better as a team.

Yea, exactly.

[Guest]

Huh?

Really? You don't get it? You're a smart guy, I'm surprised.

Let me blunt it up for you...

I don't really want any of our guys (or gals) fighting their way in to a target. Surprise & speed > gun battle. Generally works out better that way anyways WRT actually getting the target.

That is a stupid thing to say.

I'm guessing anyone that says such a thing has never thought about or had to fight their way to the target. Nor have they seen such things go down with their own eyes. Some people operate in places where there's a fucking shitload of metal in the air. Real life holy fuck "gun battles" that are loud and fast and furious. And standard.

Those who are tasked with maintaining the ability to fight their way in/out are trained and equipped to do so. In fact, our entire military system is set up to enable us to fight our way into any target on the planet. Luckily, we're typically so much better than our adversaries that we don't have to do that very often from the air. However, some folks live in that high threat space every mission. That was the context of the original comment.

So, what you want or don't want is not reality. You sounded stupid to me when you made that comment so I gave you some free advice to stick to what you know.

Clear?

[nsplayr]

I'm guessing anyone that says such a thing has never thought about or had to fight their way to the target. Nor have they seen such things go down with their own eyes. Some people operate in places where there's a fucking shitload of metal in the air. Real life holy fuck "gun battles" that are loud and fast and furious. And standard.

You're guessing wrong. This can't be adequately discussed here so I'll just stop.

The point of the article I think was positive, that we're leveraging some relatively high-speed women in a limited role that allows us as a whole to take the fight to the enemy more effectively. Everything else here is just chaff that need not be rehashed again.

From the Army's official website on the program (emphasis added):

Cultural support teams are comprised of female Soldiers who serve as enablers supporting Army special-operations combat forces in and around secured objective areas.

So everything about "fighting your way in" to a hot objective is moot within the intended scope of the program. Yea sh*t happens as Rainman so bluntly stated but CST members are not "operators" and seem to receive about enough advanced training to adequately defend themselves if sh*t actually does hit the fan unexpectedly. All of which is not entirely new but it's good that the idea is being expanded/normalized.

Edited July 1, 2011 by nsplayr

[Guest]

So everything about "fighting your way in" to a hot objective is moot within the intended scope of the program.

Agreed. I was inferring your comments were more generalzed which took it out of the context of the program.

You're guessing wrong. This can't be adequately discussed here so I'll just stop.

Fair enough.

You seemed to be making a sweeping generalization. I was responding to what you wrote. No sweat.

Sacolick makes it clear these CSTs are only for "secure target areas". They don't get trained in any way to fight as part of any of the teams. They are public affairs with guns.

Eh...I am willing to give them a pass since they said "Women Special Operators." If you are in ops and assigned to USSOCOM, you are a special operator or SOF to me.

Fine, except they aren't to the Army. They have a nine day physical assessment and then get six weeks of PA training with some weapons fam.

Special operators conduct special operations, what else would you call it?

I would call it a Cultural Support Program program where...

female Soldiers who serve as enablers supporting Army special-operations combat forces in and around secured objective areas.

Their primary task is to engage the female population in an objective area when such contact may be deemed culturally inappropriate if performed by a male servicemember.

...and nothing more.

[Jughead]

I would call it a Cultural Support Program

Ah, yes, the CuSP.

Of course, Cultural Nation-building Team would make for a better acronym....

[B*D*A]

Ah, yes, the CuSP.

Of course, Cultural Nation-building Team would make for a better acronym....

FTW